nerdgirl 0 #76 February 23, 2009 Quote OK, so have you not noticed yet that I'm not really reading your replies? It’s very hard for me to notice whether you are ‘reading’ or not, as I’ve written before my psychic powers aren’t working. But you have now acknowledged that you are not making constructive replies; instead, when challenged you repetitively make comments reminiscent of the boys who chased me during 7th grade recess. (Will you be asking if I have ‘cooties’ next? )[/I] ------ ---- ----- But to get back on topic – both foreign aid and the Dow: The basic model for distributing foreign aid has not changed much over the last 50 years: the US sends foreign aid, largely military aid in the forms of US goods/equipment, to states from whom we want to buy political allegiance or favor. “During the Cold War, the U.S. instituted a policy of sending money to governments in poor countries to buy their political loyalty. While studies show that sending aid to foreign governments creates allegiance, it does not lead to economic progress [not sure if that assertion holds for Israel (whose leadership you asserted “starve the people we seek to help”), which has been very successful in terms of innovation and economic progress, but will put that aside for a moment - nerdgirl]. Instead, it makes governments in poor countries dependent on the U.S. rather than their citizens’ taxes.” Now buying allegiance is not necessarily a poor short-term tactic; heck, it has worked well in decreasing immediate violence by Sunni’s in Iraq (a tactic). Pay people to do things other than fight (especially against you in the latter case) until security and stability can be established. Excluding Iraq, the top recipients of US foreign aid (by a significant margin) are Israel, Egypt, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Indonesia. Recognizing the importance of innovation (or “technology” or “knowledge,” i.e., Solow residual), a strategic balance between tactical investments for allegiance and fostering innovation (that leads to economic growth and increase in Dow): “small entrepreneurs can be bolstered with seed money in the range of $25,000. Small entrepreneurs create jobs, products and services that form the bedrock of flourishing democracies. With some tangible changes in its operation, the International Finance Corporation (IFC) within the World Bank Group could promote development through entrepreneurs. The World Bank should stop lending to governments and be absorbed into the reformed IFC.” In his last PBR, President Bush proposed doubling foreign aid. The choices now are what to do with it? And it’s not an either/or proposition, imo, but finding the right balance. In his inaugural speech and the speech in which the foundation of NATO was announced, President Harry S Truman spoke about the foreign aid in very idealistic rhetoric: “… In addition, we will provide military advice and equipment to free nations which will cooperate with us in the maintenance of peace and security. “Fourth, we must embark on a bold new program for making the benefits of our scientific advances and industrial progress available for the improvement and growth of underdeveloped areas. “The United States is pre-eminent among nations in the development of industrial and scientific techniques. The material resources which we can afford to use for the assistance of other peoples are limited. But our imponderable resources in technical knowledge are constantly growing and are inexhaustible. “I believe that we should make available to peace-loving peoples the benefits of our store of technical knowledge in order to help them realize their aspirations for a better life. And, in cooperation with other nations, we should foster capital investment in areas needing development. “Our aim should be to help the free peoples of the world, through their own efforts, to produce more food, more clothing, more materials for housing, and more mechanical power to lighten their burdens. “With the cooperation of business, private capital, agriculture, and labor in this country, this program can greatly increase the industrial activity in other nations and can raise substantially their standards of living.” Sounds idealistic, eh? Underlying the idealistic motivations of which President Truman spoke was also a reality of recognition of foreign aid as a means to create new markets. New markets of populations where people could buy things. New markets where people would buy American goods (predominantly in January 1949) and services. Sixty years ago President Truman recognized the connections between foreign aid and American economic growth, for which the Dow serves as an indicator. Some folks (proudly?) still don't know to what states their tax dollars go in 2009. /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #77 February 23, 2009 Quote I read your posts Marg. I'm not sure what to think about folks who argue without taking the rebuttal into consideration....except that they have a future in talk radio. I didn't think Air America was still in business... Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #78 February 23, 2009 Quotehttp://money.cnn.com/quote/chart/chart.html?symb=djia&sid=1643&time=all&Submit1=Refresh Edit for better URL I like this one: Google DJIA because it allows me to broaden or narrow the view. Wish I could find something similar - w/the same interactive capabilities - that extends back to 1900. Out of curiosity, I would like to see how the rise and fall of the Dow correlates with increase (& stagnation/decrease) in housing values for the nation overall & in Top 5 (or Top 10) housing markets over the last 10 years or so. /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #79 February 23, 2009 Quote See p.18 for top foreign aid recipients 1995 & 2005. Do you want to pull back aid from the largest recipient? Are you asserting that the leadership of the single largest recipient of US foreign aid is starving its own people? Can I answer this one?!?!?!?!!?I have no doubt that you and many others here could. There is a lack of basic information and mis-information regarding who gets US foreign aid, what the amount is, and the form it takes. /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #80 February 23, 2009 Quote Quote I read your posts Marg. I'm not sure what to think about folks who argue without taking the rebuttal into consideration....except that they have a future in talk radio. I didn't think Air America was still in business... It may not be. It was built on the "vegetarian steakhouse" business model. Most of us to the left of the arbitrary lib/con line don't like misinformation, no matter how LOUD or sensational it is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #81 February 23, 2009 The online data at stockcharts.com only goes back to roughly 1980. I imagine that most online charting websites won't have much more.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #82 February 23, 2009 Quote Most of us to the left of the arbitrary lib/con line don't like misinformation, no matter how LOUD or sensational it is. Spare me - y'all produce just as much as you're trying to claim the right does.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #83 February 23, 2009 Quote I read your posts Marg. I'm not sure what to think about folks who argue without taking the rebuttal into consideration....except that they have a future in talk radio. Quote Quote Most of us to the left of the arbitrary lib/con line don't like misinformation, no matter how LOUD or sensational it is. Spare me - y'all produce just as much as you're trying to claim the right does. The point that [idrankwhat] was making wasn't so much about partisanship, at least as I read it. It was a comment contrasting actually addressing a topic versus acknowledging that replies have nothing to do with the topic and instead are diversionary/mis-directing/inflammatory/silly, e.g., repetitively asking where I jump. Jim [n23x] also noted it concisely. /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 426 #84 February 23, 2009 Quote Quote OK, so have you not noticed yet that I'm not really reading your replies? It’s very hard for me to notice whether you are ‘reading’ or not, as I’ve written before my psychic powers aren’t working. But you have now acknowledged that you are not making constructive replies; instead, when challenged you repetitively make comments reminiscent of the boys who chased me during 7th grade recess. (Will you be asking if I have ‘cooties’ next? )[/I] So the boys who chased you in 7th grade wanted to know where you jump? And back on topic, I really don't care.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #85 February 23, 2009 Quote And back on topic, I really don't care. Then why do you keep replying? Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #86 February 23, 2009 Quote I didn't think Air America was still in business... Yep, different name-good group of guys.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 426 #87 February 23, 2009 Quote Quote And back on topic, I really don't care. Then why do you keep replying? To see how many times you will.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt.Slog 0 #88 February 23, 2009 Quote Quote Quote OK, so have you not noticed yet that I'm not really reading your replies? It’s very hard for me to notice whether you are ‘reading’ or not, as I’ve written before my psychic powers aren’t working. But you have now acknowledged that you are not making constructive replies; instead, when challenged you repetitively make comments reminiscent of the boys who chased me during 7th grade recess. (Will you be asking if I have ‘cooties’ next? )[/I] So the boys who chased you in 7th grade wanted to know where you jump? . Suggest you look up "reminiscent" in a dictionary. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #89 February 23, 2009 Quote The point that [idrankwhat] was making wasn't so much about partisanship, at least as I read it. It was a comment contrasting actually addressing a topic versus acknowledging that replies have nothing to do with the topic and instead are diversionary/mis-directing/inflammatory/silly, e.g., repetitively asking where I jump. You're right, but to be fair to Mike I also knew where the implications would lead. The partisan aspect regarding the implementation of misdirection and diversion bears itself out as consequence whether we are talking about the success/failure of talk radio programming or some of the exchanges in this thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Misternatural 0 #90 February 23, 2009 I don't know about you people but I have had enough of this gloom and doom shit for a whole year...It's time we stop listening to this "If it bleeds -it leads" media parade (CNBC et. al.)and get off of our asses and get out there and start buying stuff, anything- I have been and I am going to continue to do so at a discount. This isn't a CRISIS it it an ADJUSTMENT- did the numerical values of accounts go down....Yes But so is everything else so it will equalize in a year or two but only if we let free market enterprise work. Plus the consumer can lead the way out of this but we have to get off of our asses and stop worrying if CHINA is going to pull us out of this slump! What a crock of shit the media is pushing! - that is all.Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 426 #91 February 23, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote OK, so have you not noticed yet that I'm not really reading your replies? It’s very hard for me to notice whether you are ‘reading’ or not, as I’ve written before my psychic powers aren’t working. But you have now acknowledged that you are not making constructive replies; instead, when challenged you repetitively make comments reminiscent of the boys who chased me during 7th grade recess. (Will you be asking if I have ‘cooties’ next? )[/I] So the boys who chased you in 7th grade wanted to know where you jump? . Suggest you look up "reminiscent" in a dictionary. Yet another gets sucked in.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #92 February 24, 2009 QuoteThis isn't a CRISIS it it an ADJUSTMENT An adjustment is dropping, say 10%, due to market conditions, or unforseen events. When the entire market is cut in half in one year, and all the gains of the last decade are lost, that is a crisis.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #93 February 24, 2009 Quoteand all the gains of the last decade are lost[/url] You must be looking at a different chart than I am. The DJIA rose through the current level in 97, dropped back to it in 98, and bounced off it TWICE in 02-03.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Misternatural 0 #94 February 24, 2009 at least I know somebody reads my stuff. It's an adjustment relating to the over valuation of many stocks due to speculation. Stock market pricing as you know is cyclical. I like to keep an eye on the moving average. We experienced a bubble last year across the board and now the adjustment to the decline in speculation has occurred. The reason it is not a crisis relative to the often referred to Great depression is a matter of perception.-Not that you are doing this but I think it is a joke that people consider this a national crisis, for some people yes it is- they lost a home and have no job, temporarily. But for the rest of us? to even compare this to life in the 30's makes me laugh. Modern citizens could not handle the economic conditions of living during the great depression, Here we live in an orgy of luxury right now compared to those people made possible by the infrastructure and modern globalized economic systems- just walk into any supermarket. Some of the fat was trimmed in our accounts is what this amounts to- boo hoo, we cried for a whole year about it.We are wiser for it- Now it is time to get off of our leaner asses, pressure the banks to start lending again, invest,buy some real estate, continue with the energy independence program and get back to work. People who sit on the sidelines wringing their hands now, are going to be left there. I don't think you are one of them, at least I hope.Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #95 February 24, 2009 QuoteThe majority of my non-deployed time in the military has been spent working a second job on the weekends so I could up my standard of living despite the fact that I own a home I don't even live in and can barely afford. So, what happens when that second job disappears and you cannot find a new one? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #96 February 24, 2009 Quote The reason it is not a crisis relative to the often referred to Great depression is a matter of perception.-Not that you are doing this but I think it is a joke that people consider this a national crisis, for some people yes it is- they lost a home and have no job, temporarily. But for the rest of us? to even compare this to life in the 30's makes me laugh. Well, what is we're sitting in 1930? The first crash was in 1929, but it got increasingly worse as FDR came in. That's the part that has a lot of people nervous. A key difference between then and now is there was no New Deal or Great Society. People out of work weren't collecting even a small unemployment, and of course the unemployment was much much higher. I was always a bit creeped out by hearing about how construction workers would watch the building of the Golden Gate Bridge, waiting for someone to fall off, thus opening up a job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riddler 0 #97 February 24, 2009 QuoteYou must be looking at a different chart than I am. More likely, we're listening to different experts. Since the blame is squarely in the court of the previous administration, the Bush supporters want to say that it's merely a flesh wound. The .com bust caused the DOW to dip below 8,000 from a previous high of 11,000, while our current drop from 14,000 to almost 7,000 looks like a BASE jump, compared to the kiddie-coaster of '02-'03 (also during the Bush administration).Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #98 February 25, 2009 QuoteQuoteThe majority of my non-deployed time in the military has been spent working a second job on the weekends so I could up my standard of living despite the fact that I own a home I don't even live in and can barely afford. So, what happens when that second job disappears and you cannot find a new one? Then the standard of living gets rolled back even further. I will not under any circumstances allow myself to become a burden on this economy. Worst case scenario, my military pay alone is enough to live off of and pay all my bills, it just offers me zero discretionary spending. The second job I have now is what allows me to have some resemblance of a social life. So regardless of what happens I am going to come through this downturn with my credit and mortgage in tact. And I won't be asking for any free handouts because I bought something I couldn't afford. I made the decision to buy a home I'm no longer able to live in and I'm going to shoulder the burden on my own until the market improves to a point that allows me to sell it and get on with my life. And before anyone puts words in my mouth I'm not taking any shots at people going into foreclosure because they lost their jobs due to no fault of their own. My anger is towards those who didn't belong in their homes int he first place and are now adding to the crisis.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #99 February 25, 2009 QuoteAnd before anyone puts words in my mouth I'm not taking any shots at people going into foreclosure because they lost their jobs due to no fault of their own. My anger is towards those who didn't belong in their homes int he first place and are now adding to the crisis. You yourself have said you are living above your means. Why the anger to other's who do the same? What if you lose your job with Uncle Sam and the war in Iraq is over. hence, no more blackwater privatre gigs. Then how are you going to pay for your house? Circumstances change. I agree that many people bought well beyond there means. You admit to doing it yourself. You haven't gotten caught (yet), many others have. Just proves that people will make stupid decisions when left to themselves. People do need some form of protection against themselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #100 February 25, 2009 QuoteWhat if you lose your job with Uncle Sam and the war in Iraq is over. hence, no more blackwater privatre gigs. Then how are you going to pay for your house? Seeing as how he's in the military, I'm guessing that whether or not Blackwater stays in business isn't going to affect him much. Damn, so much for that whole "mercenary" vibe, huh? QuoteJust proves that people will make stupid decisions when left to themselves. People do need some form of protection against themselves. Actions have consequences, as the people that grossly overbought are now finding out.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 4 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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Misternatural 0 #94 February 24, 2009 at least I know somebody reads my stuff. It's an adjustment relating to the over valuation of many stocks due to speculation. Stock market pricing as you know is cyclical. I like to keep an eye on the moving average. We experienced a bubble last year across the board and now the adjustment to the decline in speculation has occurred. The reason it is not a crisis relative to the often referred to Great depression is a matter of perception.-Not that you are doing this but I think it is a joke that people consider this a national crisis, for some people yes it is- they lost a home and have no job, temporarily. But for the rest of us? to even compare this to life in the 30's makes me laugh. Modern citizens could not handle the economic conditions of living during the great depression, Here we live in an orgy of luxury right now compared to those people made possible by the infrastructure and modern globalized economic systems- just walk into any supermarket. Some of the fat was trimmed in our accounts is what this amounts to- boo hoo, we cried for a whole year about it.We are wiser for it- Now it is time to get off of our leaner asses, pressure the banks to start lending again, invest,buy some real estate, continue with the energy independence program and get back to work. People who sit on the sidelines wringing their hands now, are going to be left there. I don't think you are one of them, at least I hope.Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #95 February 24, 2009 QuoteThe majority of my non-deployed time in the military has been spent working a second job on the weekends so I could up my standard of living despite the fact that I own a home I don't even live in and can barely afford. So, what happens when that second job disappears and you cannot find a new one? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #96 February 24, 2009 Quote The reason it is not a crisis relative to the often referred to Great depression is a matter of perception.-Not that you are doing this but I think it is a joke that people consider this a national crisis, for some people yes it is- they lost a home and have no job, temporarily. But for the rest of us? to even compare this to life in the 30's makes me laugh. Well, what is we're sitting in 1930? The first crash was in 1929, but it got increasingly worse as FDR came in. That's the part that has a lot of people nervous. A key difference between then and now is there was no New Deal or Great Society. People out of work weren't collecting even a small unemployment, and of course the unemployment was much much higher. I was always a bit creeped out by hearing about how construction workers would watch the building of the Golden Gate Bridge, waiting for someone to fall off, thus opening up a job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #97 February 24, 2009 QuoteYou must be looking at a different chart than I am. More likely, we're listening to different experts. Since the blame is squarely in the court of the previous administration, the Bush supporters want to say that it's merely a flesh wound. The .com bust caused the DOW to dip below 8,000 from a previous high of 11,000, while our current drop from 14,000 to almost 7,000 looks like a BASE jump, compared to the kiddie-coaster of '02-'03 (also during the Bush administration).Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #98 February 25, 2009 QuoteQuoteThe majority of my non-deployed time in the military has been spent working a second job on the weekends so I could up my standard of living despite the fact that I own a home I don't even live in and can barely afford. So, what happens when that second job disappears and you cannot find a new one? Then the standard of living gets rolled back even further. I will not under any circumstances allow myself to become a burden on this economy. Worst case scenario, my military pay alone is enough to live off of and pay all my bills, it just offers me zero discretionary spending. The second job I have now is what allows me to have some resemblance of a social life. So regardless of what happens I am going to come through this downturn with my credit and mortgage in tact. And I won't be asking for any free handouts because I bought something I couldn't afford. I made the decision to buy a home I'm no longer able to live in and I'm going to shoulder the burden on my own until the market improves to a point that allows me to sell it and get on with my life. And before anyone puts words in my mouth I'm not taking any shots at people going into foreclosure because they lost their jobs due to no fault of their own. My anger is towards those who didn't belong in their homes int he first place and are now adding to the crisis.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #99 February 25, 2009 QuoteAnd before anyone puts words in my mouth I'm not taking any shots at people going into foreclosure because they lost their jobs due to no fault of their own. My anger is towards those who didn't belong in their homes int he first place and are now adding to the crisis. You yourself have said you are living above your means. Why the anger to other's who do the same? What if you lose your job with Uncle Sam and the war in Iraq is over. hence, no more blackwater privatre gigs. Then how are you going to pay for your house? Circumstances change. I agree that many people bought well beyond there means. You admit to doing it yourself. You haven't gotten caught (yet), many others have. Just proves that people will make stupid decisions when left to themselves. People do need some form of protection against themselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #100 February 25, 2009 QuoteWhat if you lose your job with Uncle Sam and the war in Iraq is over. hence, no more blackwater privatre gigs. Then how are you going to pay for your house? Seeing as how he's in the military, I'm guessing that whether or not Blackwater stays in business isn't going to affect him much. Damn, so much for that whole "mercenary" vibe, huh? QuoteJust proves that people will make stupid decisions when left to themselves. People do need some form of protection against themselves. Actions have consequences, as the people that grossly overbought are now finding out.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
