jerryzflies 0 #1 February 12, 2009 Takes the 5th when asked if he knowingly shipped tainted peanuts. www.latimes.com/features/health/la-na-peanut12-2009feb12,0,2288068.story And these people call for less government regulation!If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #2 February 12, 2009 If I ever got called in on a witch hunt I would plead the 5th with a big FUCK YOU after that. All these hearings are dog and pony shows and nothing else.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #3 February 12, 2009 Quote If I ever got called in on a witch hunt I would plead the 5th with a big FUCK YOU after that. All these hearings are dog and pony shows and nothing else. DUDE.. 9 people are dead because this guy said to ship the peanuts in spite of a test that had turned up positive for Salmonella.Putting company profits over peoples lives is worthy of life in prison Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TankBuster 0 #4 February 12, 2009 QuoteTakes the 5th when asked if he knowingly shipped tainted peanuts. www.latimes.com/features/health/la-na-peanut12-2009feb12,0,2288068.story And these people call for less government regulation! Plenty of FDA regs already in place, but once again, the government shows a dismal ineffectiveness. And these people are calling for more government involvement in free enterprise! Why not let the free market handle this? How many food makers are going to buy their pb now? They go out of business, and the strong/honorable survive.The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gene03 0 #5 February 12, 2009 Quote Quote If I ever got called in on a witch hunt I would plead the 5th with a big FUCK YOU after that. All these hearings are dog and pony shows and nothing else. DUDE.. 9 people are dead because this guy said to ship the peanuts in spite of a test that had turned up positive for Salmonella.Putting company profits over peoples lives is worthy of life in prison Jeanne, I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. Life imprisonment? Yes, and feed him the same sludge his company sold. Along with a few of his upper level management cohorts.“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him. Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #6 February 12, 2009 Quote Quote Quote If I ever got called in on a witch hunt I would plead the 5th with a big FUCK YOU after that. All these hearings are dog and pony shows and nothing else. DUDE.. 9 people are dead because this guy said to ship the peanuts in spite of a test that had turned up positive for Salmonella.Putting company profits over peoples lives is worthy of life in prison Jeanne, I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. Life imprisonment? Yes, and feed him the same sludge his company sold. Along with a few of his upper level management cohorts. With 9 people dead... these guys KNEW what tainted food could do. I think Life in prison for people like him is more than appropriate.. as a LOUD and CLEAR message to those in charge of our food supply.. that GREED caused death will not be tolerated. Its happening over and over and over.. It costs Americans Billions of dollars.. when they sell this tainted crap to people who get sick and some die. Its murder... treat it as such. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #7 February 12, 2009 So in this society, where people constantly spin the shit out of everything you say, pleading the 5th means guilty?....yeah, I suppose I would expect that from such a society.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #8 February 12, 2009 Why are you guys defending this guy? Seriously - what do you see as honorable in his behavior? Quote Plenty of FDA regs already in place, but once again, the government shows a dismal ineffectiveness. Which FDA regs were violated and what were the consequences for violation? Or more precisely, why were there no apparent fear of consequences? What was capacity of oversight? How many inspections were made? How often? Were the inspectors empowered to do their job or were they hindered? Are you familiar with thalidomide? How many thalidomide babies were there in the US? Are you familiar with melamine? Would you prefer the Chinese approach of no oversight and complete lack of enforcement ... but severe consequemces for those caught? (I don't prefer that model on either side of the issue.) Where are the calls for personal responsibilty on the part of the manufacturer? Quote FDA inspection of the PCA Blakely, GA, processing plant reveals that on 12 occasions the company shipped Salmonella contaminated products to other food companies for use in the production of food products. FDA inspection reveals that PCA failed to provide a safe manufacturing process that would have prevented the contamination of peanut products both during and after manufacturing. FDA inspection reveals that numerous Salmonella species, including the S. Typhimurium serotype were isolated from product, equipment, and environmental surfaces at the PCA plant. Investigative reporters reveal that in April of 2008, Canadian officials rejected a PCA shipment of chopped peanuts because it contained metal fragments. Although federal food safety inspectors, follow-up on metal fragment issue, it is learned that they had not been to the Georgia plant since 2001. Business exists to make money. There's everything right with that. /Marg ... co-founded my first company at 26 & sold my share in it at 29 Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #9 February 12, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote If I ever got called in on a witch hunt I would plead the 5th with a big FUCK YOU after that. All these hearings are dog and pony shows and nothing else. DUDE.. 9 people are dead because this guy said to ship the peanuts in spite of a test that had turned up positive for Salmonella.Putting company profits over peoples lives is worthy of life in prison Jeanne, I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. Life imprisonment? Yes, and feed him the same sludge his company sold. Along with a few of his upper level management cohorts. With 9 people dead... these guys KNEW what tainted food could do. I think Life in prison for people like him is more than appropriate.. as a LOUD and CLEAR message to those in charge of our food supply.. that GREED caused death will not be tolerated. Its happening over and over and over.. It costs Americans Billions of dollars.. when they sell this tainted crap to people who get sick and some die. Its murder... treat it as such. How about letting the trial proceed and once guilty, THEN allow the judgment to follow? Otherwise, his comment on the witch hunt does rather ring true. Like in the death sentence thread, be SURE of the conviction before the public hanging. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #10 February 12, 2009 QuoteAnd these people call for less government regulation! Is it regulation that is the problem? I.e., is there really a need for additional regulation? Or is lack of effective oversight and implementation the problem? Or a lack of meaningful consequences that motivate "honorable" or legal behavior the problem? It's been my observation that rarely is a lack of regulation the problem; rather it is a perception (& reality) of a lack of significant consequences for risky behavior. Enforce the laws that are already there. If there's still a problem after that, then let's re-examine. /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #11 February 12, 2009 By all means.. let the prosecutions take place.... but even as in the thread on the death penalty.. life in prison is more than acceptable to me as a punishment .. even when people like this killed people. The emails he sent are more than instructive.... you might look into them. I am a very firm believer in adequate penalties for this type of behavior. The message to those in the position to make the decisions... needs to fit the crime. If you choose to kill people with your tainted crap.... you deserve to do the time... since you did the crime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TankBuster 0 #12 February 12, 2009 QuoteWhy are you guys defending this guy? Seriously - what do you see as honorable in his behavior? I'm not, and I don't. We have two separate points going here. One is negligent homicide, and KBordson's post is reflective of my opinion there. The other is what to do in the future. I prefer less knee jerk government lawmaking, and more reliance on market forces which will put these bastards out of business.The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #13 February 12, 2009 Quote Quote Why are you guys defending this guy? Seriously - what do you see as honorable in his behavior? I'm not, and I don't. We have two separate points going here. One is negligent homicide, and KBordson's post is reflective of my opinion there. The other is what to do in the future. I prefer less knee jerk government lawmaking, and more reliance on market forces which will put these bastards out of business. So. What is your opinion of these words>"actus reus" pertaining to this case? I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #14 February 12, 2009 Not that I'm in any way shape or form defending the company or CEO for shipping tainted peanuts but law doesn't require him to knowingly incriminate himself. Whether he is guilty or not...Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TankBuster 0 #15 February 12, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Why are you guys defending this guy? Seriously - what do you see as honorable in his behavior? I'm not, and I don't. We have two separate points going here. One is negligent homicide, and KBordson's post is reflective of my opinion there. The other is what to do in the future. I prefer less knee jerk government lawmaking, and more reliance on market forces which will put these bastards out of business. So. What is your opinion of these words>"actus reus" pertaining to this case? Again, separate from the point I was making about kneejerk government "we have to do something about every thing" reaction. However, I'm sure criminal liability can be proven in this case and if so, I hope the penalty is severe. But since congressional grandstanding is all that was happening in Washington, this guy is well advised to plead the 5th. Where the heck is LawRocket when you need him? I'm sure thats what he'd advise.The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 898 #16 February 12, 2009 Agreed. Last I checked congress was legislative not judicial anyway. However, this guy DOES need to be pursued legally. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #17 February 12, 2009 QuoteWhy not let the free market handle this? How many food makers are going to buy their pb now? They go out of business, and the strong/honorable survive. In theory it works that way, in practice that is just not true. If you think it would actually work that way, then you are somewhat naive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #18 February 12, 2009 QuoteThe emails he sent are more than instructive.... you might look into them. From article: Quote he instructed staff to "turn the product loose" and said that he goes "thru this once a week. I will hold my breath . . . again." I found that little part a lil more interesting...I wonder if he ever thought...."Jeez, I wonder what happens if one day there really is some germ in the PB?" It's a lil like the good ole "boy who cried wolf" story in a way.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #19 February 12, 2009 QuoteNot that I'm in any way shape or form defending the company or CEO for shipping tainted peanuts but law doesn't require him to knowingly incriminate himself. It does not, of course. But we can still think he's a scumbag for it, since his silence leaves only the evidence of the failed tests and his email. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #20 February 12, 2009 QuoteQuoteNot that I'm in any way shape or form defending the company or CEO for shipping tainted peanuts but law doesn't require him to knowingly incriminate himself. It does not, of course. But we can still think he's a scumbag for it, since his silence leaves only the evidence of the failed tests and his email. Do you mean he's a scumbag (a) ONLY for the apparent wrongdoing (if that was the case), or (b) ALSO for taking the 5th & not testifying? If (b), why? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hwt 0 #21 February 12, 2009 Quote Agreed. Last I checked congress was legislative not judicial anyway. However, this guy DOES need to be pursued legally. ____________________________________________ Agreed , this issue belongs in the courts and not the political arena...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #22 February 12, 2009 Who would you suggest investigate such matters? This guy knew, he was shipping-out tainted products that could have fatal results to the consumer. There's such a thing as 'free enterprise' and knowingly selling something that would endanger the public. The CEO involved is a feather-legged SOB and in the same category as a mobster. I don't see this as a 'witch hunt'! I see this as an investigation of a crime. Chuck Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #23 February 12, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteNot that I'm in any way shape or form defending the company or CEO for shipping tainted peanuts but law doesn't require him to knowingly incriminate himself. It does not, of course. But we can still think he's a scumbag for it, since his silence leaves only the evidence of the failed tests and his email. Do you mean he's a scumbag (a) ONLY for the apparent wrongdoing (if that was the case), or (b) ALSO for taking the 5th & not testifying? If (b), why? Mostly A, but a little bit of B for not owning up to his actions. This angry presupposes the outcome in court. Similar to this is the BART cop that shot the suspect in the back, then quit before he could be made to explain his side. Since he almost certainly won't testify in the murder trial, we have only a lot of damning evidence against him, and nothing but hot air in his defense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #24 February 13, 2009 QuoteHow about letting the trial proceed and once guilty, THEN allow the judgment to follow? Otherwise, his comment on the witch hunt does rather ring true. Like in the death sentence thread, be SURE of the conviction before the public hanging. I love ya, doctor, but I disagree. The court of public opinion and the court of law are entirely separate entities. My opinion of Congress is matters like this is that all that is missing is Lizard Boy and Bearded Lady. They are circuses - kangaroo courts designed to get facetime for the congressmen. All that's missing is the smarmy asshole reporter from "to Catch a Predator." The corut of law is different. OJ walked. I didn't care. The prosecution didn't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt but it was good enough for me to hate him. I fully support these guys' right to take to fifth. Of course, finding untainted jurors will be difficult now. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 380 #25 February 13, 2009 QuotePlenty of FDA regs already in place, but once again, the government shows a dismal ineffectiveness.Regulations without resources to enforce them are meaningless. Budgets for FDA food inspection have been flat or cut every year since 1972, while the number of food processors the FDA is supposed to oversee has grown, so now inspections are down by 81% compared to 1972 and most facilities are now physically checked less than once every 10 years http://www.cspinet.org/foodsafety/fdafunding.html. The USDA inspects only meat and poultry producers, less than 20% of the total food supply, yet its budget (for inspections alone) is about double the FDA budget. It's so bad that in 2007 the FDA tried to close 7 of its 13 food testing labs. Congress has blocked them from closing the labs, but didn't come up with any more money. The budget issues really follow from a "leave business alone to regulate itself", "any regulation is bad regulation" attitude that has prevailed for many years. No-one particularly likes paying taxes, but this is what you get when you underfund necessary services. The current outbreak may possibly have involved outright criminal activity, that remains to be proven, but for sure criminal activity is a lot more tempting if there aren't any police to catch you. Of course, if your mentality is that there shouldn't be any regulations, and the "marketplace" will correct these problems, I assume you'd also be comfortable with a lot more deaths/illness, with the survivors left to turn to the courts to try to get some financial compensation after the fact? Out of curiousity, how do you propose Joe/Jane Average Citizen even go about finding out who poisoned them in the first place (given the variety of foods we eat and the fact that, once you eat it, the evidence is likely gone), and then prosecute the case against a large (and likely well lawyered-up) corporation? Is financial compensation (about all the courts can do) adequate compensation for ruined health? How often do you personally pay private labs to test your food before you eat it? I agree the congressional hearings are a bad joke, especially since they created the opportunity for the problem in the first place with their budgetary priorities. And the CEOs have every right to take the fifth, the right to not incriminate yourself is just as important as the 2nd ammendment I think (all the rights are important). Of course they need to be held legally accountable for their decisions; if they are convicted I hope they rot in prison and are fed nothing but putrid moldy peanut butter sandwiches for the rest of their lives. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
