mnealtx 0 #26 February 9, 2009 QuoteSo you & I have basically summarized the debate that been going on for about the past 100 years between graduated taxation and flat taxation. In the US, the system (at least the federal system; each state has its own system) has virtually always been graduated tax rates; and the rationale I gave above is really just a repetition of the original legislative rationale. Yup, I think between the two of us, we pretty well covered both sides. That said - do I think a flat tax can work? Yes, I do - but I don't expect to EVER see it even introduced in Congress, much less voted on.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #27 February 9, 2009 QuoteYup, I think between the two of us, we pretty well covered both sides. We should be like Pinky and The Brain, and rule the world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #28 February 9, 2009 Quote Quote Yup, I think between the two of us, we pretty well covered both sides. We should be like Pinky and The Brain, and rule the world. "Under Our Benevolent Dictatorship, We shall...." Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #29 February 9, 2009 Quote... fair ... I think you're missing the point of current progressive tax structures. It's not designed to be fair to each individual sitting in a vacuum. It's designed to generate money to pay for shit. As long as the schedule doesn't make returns so diminishing at higher incomes that no one bothers anymore, it works just fine. It does end up being "fair" in a sort of non-quantifiable and perhaps extortionist sense because those who make more have more too lose by society not getting stuff that society wants. I wouldn't call myself rich, but I certainly have a job that would not exist if it weren't for a large number of people banding together. As such, I pay a fairly high tax rate but I don't get that worked up about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TankBuster 0 #30 February 9, 2009 QuoteYup, I think between the two of us, we pretty well covered both sides. That said - do I think a flat tax can work? Yes, I do - but I don't expect to EVER see it even introduced in Congress, much less voted on. Just to help clear a few things up: Most people who talk about a "flat" tax are talking about an income tax with one flat rate. Still an income tax, and still Marxist in nature. The Fair Tax, on the other hand, is a tax on consumption, designed to replace both the income tax and payroll tax, and has been introduced in the US House (HR 25) and the US Senate (S 1025).The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #31 February 9, 2009 Quote Still an income tax, and still Marxist in nature. eh? What a load of bollocks (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #32 February 9, 2009 Quote Quote Still an income tax, and still Marxist in nature. eh? What a load of bollocks "From each according to his ability" - Karl Marx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt.Slog 0 #33 February 9, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Still an income tax, and still Marxist in nature. eh? What a load of bollocks "From each according to his ability" - Karl Marx Could be St. Paul "This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor" Romans 13:5-7: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #34 February 9, 2009 QuoteQuoteYup, I think between the two of us, we pretty well covered both sides. We should be like Pinky and The Brain, and rule the world. "Pinky, are you thinking what I'm thinking?" "I think so, Brain. But where are going to find a tub of jello, Pippy Longstocking, and a duck on the weekend?" ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TankBuster 0 #35 February 10, 2009 Quote Quote Still an income tax, and still Marxist in nature. eh? What a load of bollocks Have you ever read The Communist Manifesto? If so you might heed your own sig line. Realizing that communism couldn't be heaped on a society all at once, he formulated tenets that would facilitate it over time. They are: 1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. 2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. 3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance. 4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. 5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly. 6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State. 7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. 8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. 9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country. 10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial productionThe forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #36 February 10, 2009 Quote Have you ever read The Communist Manifesto? If so you might heed your own sig line. Realizing that communism couldn't be heaped on a society all at once, he formulated tenets that would facilitate it over time. Would be interesting to transport him to now and have him write a sequel based on the experiences of Russia, China, and elsewhere. Would he change substantially? Not at all? Something in between to try to account for human weaknesses, or perhaps the lessons suggested by Orwell on equal societies? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #37 February 10, 2009 My point is that Income tax pre-dates Marx and so it can't possibly be Marxist per se. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #38 February 10, 2009 QuoteMy point is that Income tax pre-dates Marx and so it can't possibly be Marxist per se. Communist Manifesto - 1869. 16th Amendment (establishes income tax) - 1913.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #39 February 10, 2009 QuoteAccording to the History of the Income Tax in our almanac, the federal income tax was first enacted in 1862 to support the Union's Civil War effort. It was eliminated in 1872, revived in 1894, then declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court the following year. In 1913, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution made the income tax a permanent fixture in the U.S. tax system. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #40 February 10, 2009 Thanks for the expansion - still and all, it didn't become permanent until 1913, although I see your point.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #41 February 10, 2009 Hi Mike .... I also found this .. Quote It is also doubtless that the British income tax, at least indirectly, if not directly, was influenced at its modern inception in 1793 by the tax laws of other European countries and, perhaps, its colonies. Further, it is certain that much of the content of Britain's 1799 income tax law was derived directly from earlier English direct tax laws stretching back 700 years and more. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #42 February 10, 2009 "Cause I'm the taxman....yeah I'm the taxman" Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
