Obama wants cap on executive salaries for companies receiving bailout
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SpeedRacer, in Speakers Corner
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billvon 3,173
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>In a capitalist system, the government doesn't hand out cash . . .
In a capitalist system they do that a LOT. How much money has the government spent on fighters, bombers, navy ships, spacecraft and missiles in the past 50 years? Does that mean that we were even more socialist during the cold war?
>and buy shares in civilian companies.
They do in many economic systems. If it were a socialist or communist society, then there would be no buying or selling of shares. The government would own everything, period.
>In socialistic handouts, they don't even have to try.
If your premise is that people don't game the system in socialist societies - I don't think you've ever studied any socialist societies.
We are not a pure capitalist society, although we are based on capitalism. We're also not a pure socialist or communist society, although we have aspects of some of them, too. (I bet you even support many of them.)
(Note that I think that the stimulus package is a bad idea. But the argument that "a capitalist society never gives money to private companies!" is a non-starter.)
In a capitalist system they do that a LOT. How much money has the government spent on fighters, bombers, navy ships, spacecraft and missiles in the past 50 years? Does that mean that we were even more socialist during the cold war?
>and buy shares in civilian companies.
They do in many economic systems. If it were a socialist or communist society, then there would be no buying or selling of shares. The government would own everything, period.
>In socialistic handouts, they don't even have to try.
If your premise is that people don't game the system in socialist societies - I don't think you've ever studied any socialist societies.
We are not a pure capitalist society, although we are based on capitalism. We're also not a pure socialist or communist society, although we have aspects of some of them, too. (I bet you even support many of them.)
(Note that I think that the stimulus package is a bad idea. But the argument that "a capitalist society never gives money to private companies!" is a non-starter.)
Andy9o8 3
You guys are getting bogged down on labeling things "socialism", "communism", etc. as a means of being reactive rather than reflective - and, thereby, dogmatically rejectionist. This isn't religious doctrine, where heresy must be cast off, lest ye be damned. This is the cafeteria, where we get to pick and choose bits and parts. A little from Plan A; a smidgen of Plan B; hold the onions, please. So instead of spitting on the floor and throwing salt over your shoulder, belly up to the bar and let's cherry-pick what we need. Who the fuck cares what it's "called"?
kbordson 8
QuoteYou guys are getting bogged down on labeling things "socialism", "communism", etc. as a means of being reactive rather than reflective - and, thereby, dogmatically rejectionist. This isn't religious doctrine, where heresy must be cast off, lest ye be damned. This is the cafeteria, where we get to pick and choose bits and parts. A little from Plan A; a smidgen of Plan B; hold the onions, please. So instead of spitting on the floor and throwing salt over your shoulder, belly up to the bar and let's cherry-pick what we need. Who the fuck cares what it's "called"?
Where's the "quit telling me what to do, and I won't take your money" part
Quote
In a capitalist system they do that a LOT. How much money has the government spent on fighters, bombers, navy ships, spacecraft and missiles in the past 50 years? Does that mean that we were even more socialist during the cold war?
Horseshit. You're using the slippery slope arguement. Having a national defense doesn't justify the government handing out cash and nationalizing private companies.
Quote
They do in many economic systems.
Not ours.
QuoteIf it were a socialist or communist society, then there would be no buying or selling of shares. The government would own everything, period.
The government buying up companies is moving in that direction. It's not capitalism.
QuoteIf your premise is that people don't game the system in socialist societies - I don't think you've ever studied any socialist societies.
It's not. The exact opposite. People game the system more when the government is willing to hand out money.
QuoteWe are not a pure capitalist society, although we are based on capitalism. We're also not a pure socialist or communist society, although we have aspects of some of them, too. (I bet you even support many of them.)
Roads and firetrucks don't justify the government buying civilian companies or sinking a trillion at a time into the economy. We're a capitalistic society with a very small touch of socialism (in your words anyway). We're not communists with a touch of capitalism. National defense, public safety... ok. Buying stocks, capping salaries, rebate checks... completely and totally different.
Quote(Note that I think that the stimulus package is a bad idea. But the argument that "a capitalist society never gives money to private companies!" is a non-starter.)
That argument is based on the fact that the government buys products. It pays money to a company. The company gives them a product to use. The government uses it. Buying stocks to prop up failing companies is, again, completely different. I buy shit from companies all the time. I don't write them a check when they're struggling just because.
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Stay positive and love your life.
QuoteYou guys are getting bogged down on labeling things "socialism", "communism", etc. as a means of being reactive rather than reflective - and, thereby, dogmatically rejectionist. This isn't religious doctrine, where heresy must be cast off, lest ye be damned. This is the cafeteria, where we get to pick and choose bits and parts. A little from Plan A; a smidgen of Plan B; hold the onions, please. So instead of spitting on the floor and throwing salt over your shoulder, belly up to the bar and let's cherry-pick what we need. Who the fuck cares what it's "called"?
I care what it's called because that's not what the country was founded on.
No one needs to belly up to the bar. They need to go the fuck home and quit trying to micro manage the economy with salary caps and a trillion dollars worth of pork spread out over three years.
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Stay positive and love your life.
stitch 0
Oh well, there goes the budget for another $35,000.00 commode. 
"No cookies for you"- GFD
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billvon 3,173
>Horseshit. You're using the slippery slope arguement.
No, I'm not. You said that in a capitalist system, the government doesn't hand out cash to companies. You are wrong, because they, in actual fact, do. That's all.
>Roads and firetrucks don't justify the government buying civilian
>companies or sinking a trillion at a time into the economy.
OK, cool. So you admit that we are partly socialistic; it's just the scale of this that bothers you. I agree with you there. I'd prefer a bailout where we actually _get_ something, like say a manned expedition to Mars or a continental high speed rail system. Indeed, those parts of the bailout (the parts where we are paying for better roads, healthcare research etc) are the only parts I support.
No, I'm not. You said that in a capitalist system, the government doesn't hand out cash to companies. You are wrong, because they, in actual fact, do. That's all.
>Roads and firetrucks don't justify the government buying civilian
>companies or sinking a trillion at a time into the economy.
OK, cool. So you admit that we are partly socialistic; it's just the scale of this that bothers you. I agree with you there. I'd prefer a bailout where we actually _get_ something, like say a manned expedition to Mars or a continental high speed rail system. Indeed, those parts of the bailout (the parts where we are paying for better roads, healthcare research etc) are the only parts I support.
Andy9o8 3
Get on the choo-choo or get left behind.
firstime 0
sounds like you are not so well read
Quote
No, I'm not. You said that in a capitalist system, the government doesn't hand out cash to companies. You are wrong, because they, in actual fact, do. That's all.
No, they don't. They purchase equiment and goods and you somehow equate that to hand outs. They get nothing in return for purging billions into failing companies... except they can mandate things like salary caps apparently.
QuoteIndeed, those parts of the bailout (the parts where we are paying for better roads, healthcare research etc) are the only parts I support.
No, those are the parts of government spending you support. The bailout is being sold to us as the only way to rescue the economy. Healthcare research wouldn't save the economy any more than repaving every road in the country would.
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Stay positive and love your life.
QuoteGet on the choo-choo or get left behind.
Keep drinking the kool-aid or the boss will get mad.
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Stay positive and love your life.
Amazon 7
QuoteQuoteYou guys are getting bogged down on labeling things "socialism", "communism", etc. as a means of being reactive rather than reflective - and, thereby, dogmatically rejectionist. This isn't religious doctrine, where heresy must be cast off, lest ye be damned. This is the cafeteria, where we get to pick and choose bits and parts. A little from Plan A; a smidgen of Plan B; hold the onions, please. So instead of spitting on the floor and throwing salt over your shoulder, belly up to the bar and let's cherry-pick what we need. Who the fuck cares what it's "called"?
I care what it's called because that's not what the country was founded on.
No one needs to belly up to the bar. They need to go the fuck home and quit trying to micro manage the economy with salary caps and a trillion dollars worth of pork spread out over three years.
That country died in the 1930's.. the Depression caused unbridaled capitalism to be squashed because they showed all too well just how bad they could screw the country. Anti trust laws.... and Regulations resulted...... and now that the regulations were removed.... they again showed just how greedy and stupid they can be to again... screw the country. A few people have achieved fabulous wealth.. in what amounts to a giant Ponzi Scheme.
You might want to check on how the bottom of the pyramids do in those schemes... if you cant figure it out... just look around at our economy.
In a capitalist system, the government doesn't hand out cash and buy shares in civilian companies. Saying we need limitations for government handouts because people in a "capitalist" society game the system is a giant oxymoron. The capitalist society shouldn't get the money in the first place. People in any society try to game the system. In socialistic handouts, they don't even have to try. The government just hands them cash. Nothing about that is capitalistic.
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Stay positive and love your life.
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