Conservative philosophy and positive social change

[lawrocket 3]

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we're not paying by the word (or hour), man!

In my mind, that isn't progress.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[TankBuster 0]

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we're not paying by the word (or hour), man!

Maybe not, but he makes a great post. As a matter of fact, I'm nomintating him for President. President of SC, since the other job's taken.

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[carmenc 0]

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we're not paying by the word (or hour), man!

Don't lawyers bill by the 1/10 hour?

[Amazon 7]

I dont know... that whole post kinda reeks of I've got mine and fuck everybody else... That is very conservative... Kinda like Randy Weaver.

[happythoughts 0]

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I dont know... that whole post kinda reeks of I've got mine and fuck everybody else... That is very conservative... Kinda like Randy Weaver.

Wasn't RW set up by the FBI under the Clinton
administration and then his unarmed wife was
shot by the Clintonistas?

400 law enforcement officials to "arrest" one man
on false charges?

(I know, every charge against Weaver was proven
to be false, but what's a little lie among the Clintons.)

And Waco... the trail of tears continues.
Mismanagement and unbridled use of ATF force
once again.

Similar situations happened with religious fanatics
under the Bush administration, but they didn't go
in and murder them by burning them to death.
I think they were merely arrested in a legal fasion.

Clinton administration, conservative? Violent manics.

[Amazon 7]

I would say it was perpetrated by entrenched men at the FBI.... who had the power and misused it.. most of them very very conservative because they existed in a closed world where they are right and like so many other LEO communities... everyone not part of the club is seen as a perp.. or potential perp... thin blue line.. us against them.

Oh thats right IT WAS ALL CLINTONS FAULT ... because all his brains were sucked out of his dick.



Edited to add... the intrusions into our lives by your guy have been far greater to all of the rest of us.. than ANYTHING you can try to blame on Clinton...

Weaver after all HAD been doing something wrong... which placed him initially in the sights.. Right Wing racist groups... firearms deals...

Remember.. all of that.. if you are not doing anything wrong... you have nothing to worry about.

[loumeinhart 0]

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Can you describe for me what you perceive as "negative social change" that has come about via progressive political philosophy?

Eugenics, including mandatory sterilization in the U.S. and extermination in Germany

[lawrocket 3]

I have earned mine. I'll put my net worth against yours any day to see who has less. And yet, people want to take it.

Give yours away, Jeanne. Failure to do so is just saying, "I've got mine. Fuck everybody else.". There's my challenge.

In a literal and figurative sense, put your money where your mouth is. Or is it like other "liberals?". No, not you. Your heart is in the right place. It is others who must be punished for their thoughts, I mean, pay their fair share.

Liberal - "We need jobs."
Conservative - "Now hiring."

Liberal - "tax the rich (except for me)"
Conservative - "Why are you piling on to me? I'm not rich!"
Neoconservative - "I'll prove I can tax and spend better than liberal can."
Libertarian - "Fuck. I'm gonna manufacture on Turks and Caicos."

Conservative - "Minorities are just as capable as whites."
Liberal - "You can't do it. You'll never be able to. You are African American. Of course you can't."
Libertarian - show me what you can do.
Democrat - "Let's give money to minorities. They can't do it on their own."

Liberal - "Intolerance is bad, and I will tolerate no disagreement."
Conservative - "leave me alone. I don't like it but keep it to yourself."
Neoconservative - "I won't tolerate fags. Call me a fag, Bruce!!! I like it! Give it to me harder!"

Conservative - donates to charity.
Liberal - brags on myspace "Look at me. I donated to charity! Aren't I great."
Neoconservative - donates large sums to church.
Democrat - gets a large grant and names building after himself.

Conservative - "Look at that hitchhiker."
Liberal - "Ewwww. A hitchhiker. Probably some redneck white trash whore."
Liberal - "People won't give me a free ride. How selfish."
Libertarian - "I'll give you a ride, chica. Gas, grass or ass. Nobody rides for free, momma."
Neoconservative - "arrest that hitchhiker."

Liberal - "Conservatives only care about themselves. They need to care about what I care about, mainly making sure everyone knows how much I care."
Conservative - "I don't need to care about a damned thing. I don't need to wipe my ass if I don't want to."
Neoconservative - "I care about everyone. Even those destined to burn in hell."

Liberal - "look at that man. He fell down. Somebody help him."
Conservative - "look at that guy. He fell down. I'll go see if he's alright."
Neo-con - "Ha Ha! That was funny!"
Democrat - "let's sue the sidewalk contractor for making it so firm."
Liberal - "I fell down. Somebody help me."
Libertarian - "I fell down. Ha ha! That shit musta been funny!"

Liberal - "we need to respect the earth and nature. Shoot. My antibiotics are too expendive. Damnee pharmaceuticals industry."
Conservative - "we've gotta take steps to mitigate damage to the earth so we can keep growing food."
Neocon - I'm all for the environment. And I'll give tax breaks to companies that are in the industry."
Democrat - "Tax breaks? I'll subsidize them."
Libertarian - "they are subsidizing? Hell, I'll take it."

Liberal - "that poor guy is facing big medical bills. Healthcare should be free!"
Conservative - "why should I pay his medical bills? He should have insurance!"
Democrat - "he'll get better and cheaper care under socialized health care."
Neocon - "I hope HIPAA has teeth. If my congregation finds out I'm in the ER because I've got a 12 inch dildo us my ass I've sinned. I'll just tell them I'm in rehab."

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[happythoughts 0]

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Weaver after all HAD been doing something wrong... which placed him initially in the sights.. Right Wing racist groups... firearms deals...

Nice, but the facts are quite well documented.

It was repeated attacks by Reno, a Clinton appointee. Doesn't Clinton take responsibility
for the actions of his appointees during his administration?

Weaver had access to white seperatist groups.
(Bill of rights - freedom of association, freedom of speech)
The Clinton-Reno plan was to put pressure on him by
falsely accusing him and have him function as an informant. (Once again, lying is not a problem)

Weaver was falsely accused of selling two illegal length shotguns to an FBI "infornmant". The charges were later dropped.

However, was told of a trial date of Feb 19.
Then, the US Probation office sent a letter stating Feb 20.
He didn't show up on the 19th and a warrant was issued.
(All documented facts)

Then, the marshalls came out to his property.
Threw rocks at his house to alarm his dog.
The dog came out, they shot his dog.
Then, they shot his 14yo son in the back.

Later, they shot Weaver in the back, and
shot his wife in the head while holding a 10 month
old baby and running for cover (the marshalls were
"defending" themselves from a woman and baby?).

Reno ran the DOJ like her own assassin squad.
Then, she tried to cover up her memoes to the
FBI as to their "rules of engagement".

Trumped up charges all the way down the line.
Lies, murder, and more lies.
Lying to cover up is the Clinton way.

Then, they went to Waco. The fact is, they could
have arrested the leader while he was at breakfast
sitting in a booth in town, next to FBI agents 3 times a week.
Instead, Reno sent in the Clinton SS and burned
them alive.

Liberal "Philosophy"? You can think, or say, anything as long as it agreed with Clinton/Reno.
Disagree and you burn to death or get shot in the back.

[Amazon 7]

Wow.. that post could be right off any one of several white supremacists websites....


Good little righties...

Been to any more conspiracy websites??

[lawrocket 3]

No. I know that Weaver was acuitted. What good is the Constitution when dealing with a supremacist? Constitutional protections are good for those you like. Not him.

Weaver was acquitted of all charges except failure to appear.

As an aside - there was plenty of good news camera footage of the Waco Seige. IF you'll recall, they invited the press to cover their big raid.

I believe tha Koresh deserved to be arrested. I believe tha he was a nut who was busily molesting little girls. I believe that the government response to it was entirely ridiculous. How? Inviting the press. "To Catch a Predator" with guns.

Tell me, Jeanne - how appropriate was the press involvement? We got to see ATF guys get sprayed on television! How AWESOME!

Oh! They didn't REALLY think they were dangerous. THis was to be a peaceful raid to arrest Koresh and plaster his face on television to the American public.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Amazon 7]

AS I said... in both cases you had government agents.. who had their own special rules of engagement... unfortunately they were within the law... and abusing it as it is being done even more so for the last few years.. in their minds because people higher up the food chain wanted it. There are FAR too many people in the LEO community that feel they have carte blance to go after who ever they get a wild hair up their asses about.

Personally I dont think that is the America most of us signed up for.

[mnealtx 0]

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I wonder if those of you on the fringes of right wing thought have ever heard of Orwellian NEW SPEAK

You certainly seem to be steeped in its usage.

Like "speaking truth to power", perhaps?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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and abusing it as it is being done even more so for the last few years..

Really? How many people did Ashcroft send the ATF / FBI to kill, pray tell?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Amazon 7]

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and abusing it as it is being done even more so for the last few years..

Really? How many people did Ashcroft send the ATF / FBI to kill, pray tell?

I guess we will never know.. since it was de rigeur to spirt them away in secret so we the people would never know.

[mnealtx 0]

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and abusing it as it is being done even more so for the last few years..

Really? How many people did Ashcroft send the ATF / FBI to kill, pray tell?

I guess we will never know.. since it was de rigeur to spirt them away in secret so we the people would never know.

Um.... yeah, ok.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Butters 0]

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and abusing it as it is being done even more so for the last few years..

Really? How many people did Ashcroft send the ATF / FBI to kill, pray tell?

I guess we will never know.. since it was de rigeur to spirt them away in secret so we the people would never know.

I think we know who has ..

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Been to any more conspiracy websites??

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[SpeedRacer 1]

I can see once again people on this thread think that Conservative = Republican and Liberal = Democrat.

And that therefore, if Southern Democrats voted against Integration in the 60s, then that was a "Liberal" attitude.

It was not. Liberal and Conservative are political/social attitudes. Democrat and Republican are political parties. Two different things.

The Liberals wanted to end racial segregation in the 60s. The Conservative position was to keep the old way of racial segregation in place.

Within the Democratic Party in the '50s and '60s, you had a battle between Conservatives and Liberals on race issues.

So citing how many Democrats voted against Integration really doesn't tell you anything regarding Conservative or Liberal Philosophy, since both attitudes were present within the Democratic Party at the time.


The southern Conservative Democrats got pissed off at the Liberal Democrats, and started calling themselves "Dixie-Crats" to separate themselves from the damn n*%^&r-loving liberals.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[happythoughts 0]

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Wow.. that post could be right off any one of several white supremacists websites....

Wiki - Ruby Ridge

Wikipedia, a supremacist website?
It's just facts. I know that you abhor facts.

The Reno SS set it up, every step of the way.

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AS I said... in both cases you had government agents.. who had their own special rules of engagement... unfortunately they were within the law... and abusing it as it is being done even more so for the last few years.. in their minds because people higher up the food chain wanted it. There are FAR too many people in the LEO community that feel they have carte blance to go after who ever they get a wild hair up their asses about.

Personally I dont think that is the America most of us signed up for.

For the the Clinton administration, that was Janet Reno.
- She gave special "rules of engagement" and then
during the coverup, the "revised" rules were produced.
- She planned the war at Waco as a media event.
It wouldn't have gotten good coverage without
the gun battle.

At some point, you either have to determine whether Clinton had control of his appointees during his administration.

Either he gave approval to Renos actions or not.

If he takes credit for the "good" things of his administration, then he needs to take blame for
the bad things. Was he in charge of Reno or not?

Above, you stated all the actions that you hate in
the law enforcement community.
For some reason (again), you give a pass to the
Clintons while they committed the exact atrocities.

Wiki - Waco
Waco - Seventy-six people (24 of them British nationals) died in the fire, including 21 children and two pregnant women.

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ATF had planned their raid for Monday March 1, 1993, with the code name "Showtime".

Showtime? This was a planned media event.
Too bad Reno didn't know how to play the sax.

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Although ATF claimed that Koresh stayed inside the compound and could not be served with a warrant, Koresh was regularly seen jogging along the Waco roads and ate at local restaurants every week.

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Despite being personally invited by Koresh on several occasions as early as July 30, 1992 to inspect the Davidians' weapons (eight months before the raid), and refusing, the ATF pursued a strongly confrontational policy. McClennan County Sheriff Harwell was convinced that if ATF had simply called Koresh, he would have shown at the county courthouse with his lawyer, Wayne Martin.

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When the ATF rolled up to the front door of the compound, Koresh emerged unarmed and asked what they wanted. For unknown reasons, possibly the accidental discharge of a weapon by a member of the ATF personnel, the ATF opened fire with automatic weapons and Koresh disappeared back inside, injured

Another Reno accident? Or assassination attempt.

Read the entire Wiki account (or any version) of Waco (known as the Waco Massacre) and tell me
if you don't believe that the ATF went there to kill
those people for a media event.

[jerryzflies 0]

Sometimes bureacracies get out of control. If they have coercive power, it can be very nasty.

Read THIS from today's news. The aviation bloggers are saying TSA is desparate to find something to justify its LASP program.

Won't be long before TSA strip searches you before allowing you on a jump plane.

If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical.

[Amazon 7]

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Sometimes bureacracies get out of control. If they have coercive power, it can be very nasty.

I dont think Happythoughts can see that thru his personal hatred of the Clintons.

The investigations HOPEFULLY brought about changes... but with the last several years of Homeland Security.. I think its probably back to the same attitudes that were pervasive before Waco and Ruby Ridge. GW and the Patriot Act have given the LEO community far too much intrusive power.. and theconservative people like Happythoughts seem to believe that is good.. I mean.. hey if you are doing nothing wrong....what do you have to complain about.

[happythoughts 0]

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Sometimes bureacracies get out of control. If they have coercive power, it can be very nasty.

I dont think Happythoughts can see that thru his personal hatred of the Clintons.

The investigations HOPEFULLY brought about changes... but with the last several years of Homeland Security.. I think its probably back to the same attitudes that were pervasive before Waco and Ruby Ridge. GW and the Patriot Act have given the LEO community far too much intrusive power.. and theconservative people like Happythoughts seem to believe that is good.. I mean.. hey if you are doing nothing wrong....what do you have to complain about.

The oddest thing that you do is hypothesize about
my thoughts and then give me grief about it.

First, the investigatons came about because what
they did was wrong. Will you acknowledge that?

Second, I recognize that what Reno did was wrong
and misguided.

So, yes, I don't like Reno FOR WHAT SHE DID.
She set up a gun battle for a media event.
She sent people to Waco to kill children for good press.

That is WRONG.

I don't like Clinton for REASONS. It is ok to dislike
someone for valid reasons.

It is not ok to just let Clinton and Reno off the hook.
You have repeated been ok with that and I have no
idea why. Their behavior was wrong.
While you abhor those actions in others, you will not
clearly state that Clinton/Reno were wrong.
Having one set of rules for everyone is just ethical standards.

If he was leading his administration, Ruby Ridge
should have never happened. Even with the most lax attention, it would have all stopped at Ruby Ridge, but it didn't. All part of the tapestry that
is the Clinton Do-Nothing administration.

So, try to redirect the discussion, or defend Renos actions. I don't care.

Reno is a criminal. I can say that.

[Amazon 7]

First, the investigatons came about because what
they did was wrong. Will you acknowledge that? HELL YES but it was and IS indicative of serious problems in the LEO community I dont think this was as far up the food chain as you NEED to believe to keep that hot spot you have for that administration stoked

Second, I recognize that what Reno did was wrong
and misguided.

So, yes, I don't like Reno FOR WHAT SHE DID.
She set up a gun battle for a media event.
She sent people to Waco to kill children for good press. oh PULEEEZE

That is WRONG.

I don't like Clinton for REASONS. It is ok to dislike
someone for valid reasons.

It is not ok to just let Clinton and Reno off the hook.
You have repeated been ok with that and I have no
idea why. Their behavior was wrong.
While you abhor those actions in others, you will not
clearly state that Clinton/Reno were wrong.
Having one set of rules for everyone is just ethical standards.

If he was leading his administration, Ruby Ridge
should have never happened. Even with the most lax attention, it would have all stopped at Ruby Ridge, but it didn't. All part of the tapestry that
is the Clinton Do-Nothing administration.
Personally I don't think that micromanaging everything in the country by the President is a very good idea... you mileage obviously varies based on personal agenda... Perhaps GW knew when every muslim in the country was taking a shit based on wiretaps

So, try to redirect the discussion, or defend Renos actions. I don't care.

Obviously you do care.. but DUDE.. its been over 15 years... Let all that right wing angst rest already