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You can't show where I said people turn into babbling unproductive idiots if they smoke pot because I never made that claim.

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Or for true honesty - "In moderation, it's not that unhealthful, but the legal consequences for use can include losing your driver's license and eligibility for college scholarships."



You have got to be kidding. :S
That is almost as bad as outright saying it won't hurt you at all. If you REALLY want to be honest, then you best tell the kiddies that smoking marajuana carries the same risks associated with smoking tobacco, with the additional risks, known and unknown,associated with THC.
Like I have said more than once in this thread, I'm all for the legalization of marajuana as long as it is taxed hevaily (like cigs and alcohol). It should also be packaged with warnings, just like tobacco and beer, that inform of the REAL risks, not the Jeff Spicoli warnings you've suggested.
HAMMER:
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If you REALLY want to be honest, then you best tell the kiddies that smoking marajuana carries the same risks associated with smoking tobacco, with the additional risks, known and unknown, the FACTS associated with THC. smoking marijuana.:)


'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

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If you REALLY want to be honest, then you best tell the kiddies that smoking marajuana carries the same risks associated with smoking tobacco, with the additional risks, known and unknown, the FACTS associated with THC. smoking marijuana.:)



Your editing is redundant. You crossed off facts and replaced them with the word "facts".
HAMMER:
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Additional risks, known and unknown are facts?

Smoking marijuana doesn't have the same risks associated with tobacco; you even said so yourself, as you mentioned 'with the additional risks, known and unknown.':S

Then you mention THC, the most psychoactive substance within the. . . . what? The Grass? The Ganja? The Resin? The synthetic THC such as Dronabinol?

Do you smoke it? Eat it in a yogurt? In a cake? Mix it with tobacco? Without tobacco? Through a bong? A bucket? A pipe?

The editing isn't redundant. I just don't think you've much knowledge or experience on the subject.

edit: Would you mention this:

Research indicating positive medicinal value
A number of studies show that THC provides medical benefits for cancer and AIDS patients by increasing appetite and decreasing nausea. It has also been shown to assist some glaucoma patients by reducing pressure within the eye, and is used in the form of cannabis by a number of multiple sclerosis patients, who use it to alleviate neuropathic pain and spasticity. The National Multiple Sclerosis Society is currently supporting further research into these uses.[16] New scientific evidence is showing that THC can prevent Alzheimer's Disease in an animal model by preventing the inflammation caused by microglia cells which are activated by binding of amyloid protein.[17]

Preliminary research on synthetic THC has been conducted on patients with Tourette syndrome, with results suggesting that it may help in reducing nervous tics and urges by a significant degree. Animal studies suggested that Marinol and nicotine could be used as an effective adjunct to neuroleptic drugs in treating TS. Research on twelve patients showed that Marinol reduced tics with no significant adverse effects. A six-week controlled study on 24 patients showed that the patients taking Marinol had a significant reduction in tic severity without serious adverse effects. Seven patients dropped out or had to be excluded from the study, one due to adverse side-effects. More significant reduction in tic severity was reported with longer treatment. No detrimental effects on cognitive functioning and a trend towards improvement in cognitive functioning were reported during and after treatment. Marinol's usefulness as a treatment for TS cannot be determined until/unless longer controlled studies on larger samples are undertaken.[18][19][20]

In in-vitro experiments, THC at extremely high concentrations, which could not be reached with commonly-consumed doses, caused inhibition of plaque formation (which are associated with Alzheimer's disease) better than currently-approved drugs.[21]

THC may also be an effective anti-cancer treatment, with studies showing tumor size reduction in mice conducted in 1975[22] and 2007[23], as well as in a pilot study in humans with glioblastoma multiforme (a type of brain cancer).[24]

A two-year study in which rats and mice were force-fed tetrahydrocannabinol dissolved in corn oil showed reduced body mass, enhanced survival rates, and decreased tumor incidences in several sites, mainly organs under hormonal control. It also caused testicular atrophy and uterine and ovarian hypoplasia, as well as hyperactivity and convulsions immediately after administration.[25]

Research in rats indicates that THC prevents hydroperoxide-induced oxidative damage as well as or better than other antioxidants in a chemical (Fenton reaction) system and neuronal cultures.[26] In mice low doses of Δ9-THC reduces the progression of atherosclerosis.[27]

Research has also shown that past claims of brain damage from cannabis use fail to hold up to the scientific method.[28] Instead, recent studies with synthetic cannabinoids show that activation of CB1 receptors can facilitate neurogenesis,[29] as well as neuroprotection[30], and can even help prevent natural neural degradation from neurodegenerative diseases such as MS, Parkinson's, and Alzheimer's. This, along with research into the CB2 receptor (throughout the immune system), has given the case for medical marijuana more support.[31][32] THC is both a CB1 and CB2 agonist.[33]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THC


'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

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Additional risks, known and unknown are facts?

Yep. It is a fact that we don't know all of the risks involved with THC.

Smoking marijuana doesn't have the same risks associated with tobacco; you even said so yourself

I said that? Where? I said pot has the same risks plus the risks involved with THC

Then you mention THC, the most psychoactive substance within the. . . . what? The Grass? The Ganja? The Resin? The synthetic THC such as Dronabinol?

Do you smoke it? Eat it in a yogurt? In a cake? Mix it with tobacco? Without tobacco? Through a bong? A bucket? A pipe?

I'm not the person who posted that, so you will have to ask someone else.

The editing isn't redundant. I just don't think you've much knowledge or experience on the subject.



Yes, your editing was redundant. And you need to read more closely who posts what.

If people would stop denying the risks involved with it and acknowledge them, it would help quite a bit in trying to get the stuff legalized. It never, NEVER, will be made legal as long as those who enjoy it deny, deny, deny.
HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

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What if the photo were taken at an Amsterdam smoke bar? How do we know that it wasn't? Phelps would have been doing something that is 100% legal, in the context in which it occured.



Simply not true. Marijuana is not legal in Amsterdam, Holland or The Netherlands.



Simply quite true.
The Netherlands handles these kind of issues in a way that makes the USA's version of freedom and liberty appear laughable. My Dutch relatives are very clear about that.

From the site
http://www.amsterdam.info/drugs/

begin quoted text>>>

Soft drugs as cannabis in all its forms (marijuana, hashish, hash oil) and hallucinogenic mushrooms (so called magic mushrooms or paddos – from Dutch: paddestoel - mushroom) are legal under condition of so called “personal use”. As a result smoking of cannabis even in public, is not prosecuted as well as selling it although technically illegal under still valid Opium Act (dating from 1919, cannabis added as drug in 1950), is widely tolerated provided that it happens in a limited, controlled way (in a coffee shop, small portions, 5 grams maximum transaction, not many portions on stock, sale only to adults, no minors on the premises, no advertisement of drugs, the local municipality did not give the order to close the coffee shop).

Situation changed recently in regard to the hallucinogenic mushrooms (also known as magic mushrooms or paddos), the sale of which has been forbidden starting November 1, 2008.

<<< end quoted text

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So what you actually say, he used his power to make these women have sex with him? (He forced them to have sex?)



What I am saying is what I wrote above.

What I would assert: rather than having admitted to any behavior and being forgiven, it would have been better (if the allegations were true) that he had not made those choices.

/Marg




Amen to that... there are far to many powerful men who think they can get away with it because they do have that power.

There are also far too many women who are attracted to that power like flies.

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You can't show where I said people turn into babbling unproductive idiots if they smoke pot because I never made that claim.



so how smart do they have to be to watch your dog?



Smart enough not to smoke dope.
HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

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You can't show where I said people turn into babbling unproductive idiots if they smoke pot because I never made that claim.



so how smart do they have to be to watch your dog?



Smart enough not to smoke dope.



So for you, intelligence is measured by blindly obeying the law, swilling pints and smoking stoagies and being 100lbs overweight is A-OK.

Roger that.

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You can't show where I said people turn into babbling unproductive idiots if they smoke pot because I never made that claim.



so how smart do they have to be to watch your dog?



Smart enough not to smoke dope.



So for you, intelligence is measured by blindly obeying the law, swilling pints and smoking stoagies and being 100lbs overweight is A-OK.

Roger that.



There you go again, crediting me with things I never said. Typical debate tactic when all else fails.
HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

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well, we tried common sense and facts without luck.

I bet Phelps can manage to walk my dog. And I imagine this wasn't the first time, yet somehow he managed to train hard enough to win olympic gold, repeatedly.



No, you tried to replace facts with skewed opinion and rhetoric. There was no common sense involved in your argument since you refused to accept the results of virtually countless studies.
I bet Phelps could walk your dog also. He could probably out swim most dogs.
HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

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well, we tried common sense and facts without luck.

I bet Phelps can manage to walk my dog. And I imagine this wasn't the first time, yet somehow he managed to train hard enough to win olympic gold, repeatedly.



No, you tried to replace facts with skewed opinion and rhetoric. There was no common sense involved in your argument since you refused to accept the results of virtually countless studies.
I bet Phelps could walk your dog also. He could probably out swim most dogs.



Yup.. Reefer Madness has done its job here.




I dont smoke.. anything... and have not in at least 30 some odd years.. I rarely drink.... excpet at boogies.. once in a while.

BUT I don't think I have the right to tell anyone else what they can and can not put into their body as long as they are doing me no harm.

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No, you tried to replace facts with skewed opinion and rhetoric. There was no common sense involved in your argument since you refused to accept the results of virtually countless studies.
.



You keep talking about countless studies, yet provide none. The only citation you give concerned Paula Jones. Meanwhile, the others here have provided citations destroying every argument you had.

You're, of course, welcome to think you've proven your point. But no objective viewer can conclude that. All that is clear is you believe their sins are worse, and less healthy, than your sins.

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No, you tried to replace facts with skewed opinion and rhetoric. There was no common sense involved in your argument since you refused to accept the results of virtually countless studies.
.



You keep talking about countless studies, yet provide none. The only citation you give concerned Paula Jones. Meanwhile, the others here have provided citations destroying every argument you had.

You're, of course, welcome to think you've proven your point. But no objective viewer can conclude that. All that is clear is you believe their sins are worse, and less healthy, than your sins.



I could post references but you would not accept them, so why bother? Nobody else has in this thread, especially you. All you have tossed into the ring is your biased opinion.
Yes, I do believe my "sin" of drinking a beer or two a week is less than the "sin" of smoking pot. Why you refer to them as sins is beyond me.
I drink an occasional beer because I like the taste of different brew styles. I don't drink it to get drunk and, in fact, often drink non-alcoholic beer. On the other hand, people who smoke marijuana do so to catch a buzz, get high, or get totally trashed. Anybody who has to do that to have fun or escape the stress of their daily life has problems far worse than any pot can cause them. The difference is, I choose to tackle my problems and not hide behind a mood altering chemical.
The difference bteen you and I in this discussion is that even though i know their are health problems associated with smoking pot, i feel it should be legalized since smoking it, poses no greater danger than a combination of alcohol and cigarettes. Lagalization would also eliminate a lot of crime and free up police for more important work, as well as providing billions each year in taxes.
Meanwhile, you won't accept the FACT that marijuana does carry health risks. And, as I said before, as long as people hold out that attitude marijuana will never be legalized.

Ok, here is just one example. Pay particular attentiuon to #7.
www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00001143.htm
HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

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What if the photo were taken at an Amsterdam smoke bar? How do we know that it wasn't? Phelps would have been doing something that is 100% legal, in the context in which it occured.



Simply not true. Marijuana is not legal in Amsterdam, Holland or The Netherlands.



Simply quite true.
The Netherlands handles these kind of issues in a way that makes the USA's version of freedom and liberty appear laughable. My Dutch relatives are very clear about that.

From the site
http://www.amsterdam.info/drugs/

begin quoted text>>>

Soft drugs as cannabis in all its forms (marijuana, hashish, hash oil) and hallucinogenic mushrooms (so called magic mushrooms or paddos – from Dutch: paddestoel - mushroom) are legal under condition of so called “personal use”. As a result smoking of cannabis even in public, is not prosecuted as well as selling it although technically illegal under still valid Opium Act (dating from 1919, cannabis added as drug in 1950), is widely tolerated provided that it happens in a limited, controlled way (in a coffee shop, small portions, 5 grams maximum transaction, not many portions on stock, sale only to adults, no minors on the premises, no advertisement of drugs, the local municipality did not give the order to close the coffee shop).

Situation changed recently in regard to the hallucinogenic mushrooms (also known as magic mushrooms or paddos), the sale of which has been forbidden starting November 1, 2008.

<<< end quoted text



Nope, that website is quite clearly wrong. In all honesty it is probably dumbed down. Truth of the matter is that sale for personal use and personal consumption is condoned and not prosecuted. It is however illegal.

It is a pretty weird situation where bylaws regulate how illegal activity works.

The Dutch do the same with street prostitution which is illegal. However, since they know they can't stop it they create specific areas for street prostitution and then condone it in that specific area.

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Ok, here is just one example. Pay particular attentiuon to #7.
www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00001143.htm



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7. by-products of marijuana remaining in body fat for several weeks, with unknown consequences.



Exactly my point. Every time someone takes a hit they are testing the long term affects. Not very smart. :S
HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

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Ok, here is just one example. Pay particular attentiuon to #7.
www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00001143.htm



Quote

7. by-products of marijuana remaining in body fat for several weeks, with unknown consequences.



Exactly my point. Every time someone takes a hit they are testing the long term affects. Not very smart. :S


This coming from someone whose user name and avatar are about alcohol ...

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... do yourself (and all of us) a favor and do some more research.
"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

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Yeah, I know. But if it legalized we should have a way for the cops to quickly check whether a driver is over a predetermined level, if that is even possible. It may come down to relying on the roadside sobriety tests in front of a video camera. You know, put your arms straight out, tip your head back, stand on one foot, balance these spinning plates on these poles, and 1-2-3-KICK! 1-2-3-KICK!
Drop a plate and yer toast.



Some are harder than others... ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0MXU3J6Qbs
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

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I drink an occasional beer because I like the taste of different brew styles. I don't drink it to get drunk and, in fact, often drink non-alcoholic beer. On the other hand, people who smoke marijuana do so to catch a buzz, get high, or get totally trashed. Anybody who has to do that to have fun or escape the stress of their daily life has problems far worse than any pot can cause them. The difference is, I choose to tackle my problems and not hide behind a mood altering chemical.



The same words are said by alcoholics in denial, proving again that this is all about your frame of reference. 'what I do is fine, what he does is stupid.'

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>I drink an occasional beer because I like the taste of different brew styles.

Dude, you self-identify with beer while trashing people who smoke pot because they are just doing it to get stoned. To you, alcohol is important enough to your life that you've named yourself after a type of alcohol; the phrase about throwing stones in a glass house comes to mind.

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>I drink an occasional beer because I like the taste of different brew styles.

Dude, you self-identify with beer while trashing people who smoke pot because they are just doing it to get stoned. To you, alcohol is important enough to your life that you've named yourself after a type of alcohol; the phrase about throwing stones in a glass house comes to mind.




Sorry, Bill, but you are wrong. My screen name has nothing to do with beer or alcohol. I chose it because I once owned a pair of BELGIAN DRAFT horses. Maybe you should have asked before assuming. Beer is NOT very important in my life. I rarely drink more than one beer a day and more than six or eight a month.Since you are a mod you may be able to check my password, which happens to be the name of the oldest of the two.
The effects of alcohol are well known, including the time it remains in your body. Those things ARE NOT as well know about THC.
HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

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