Victory for Louisiana students....

[dmkellett 0]

Creationism and its variants will unfortunately now have a foothold in the classrooms of Louisiana state schools. In mid-December 2008 lobbyists acting for the creation movement managed to have caveats removed from a proposed law passed on Tuesday this week. Teachers are now free to use " materials outside the regular curriculum to teach controversial scientific theories including evolution, origins of life, and global warming" unfortunately this will also allow a loophole for creationists to get a foot in the door of the science classroom.........

I. D . Proponents must be celebrating today a small victory in their war with reason, logic and common sense. So much for a separation of church and state. You would have thought that after the controversial slaying their movement got at the Dover trial they would not be able to pull something like this off. Let the brainwashing of innocents begin.

[dmkellett 0]

http://blogs.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2009/01/louisiana-creat.html[url]

[Andy9o8 3]

You know, it's totally cool that the Civil War resulted in the abolition of slavery, even if that wasn't the "official" reason why it started. That being said, it's things like this that make me pause and do a cost-benefit analysis.

[marks2065 0]

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Creationism and its variants will unfortunately now have a foothold in the classrooms of Louisiana state schools. In mid-December 2008 lobbyists acting for the creation movement managed to have caveats removed from a proposed law passed on Tuesday this week. Teachers are now free to use " materials outside the regular curriculum to teach controversial scientific theories including evolution, origins of life, and global warming" unfortunately this will also allow a loophole for creationists to get a foot in the door of the science classroom.........

I. D . Proponents must be celebrating today a small victory in their war with reason, logic and common sense. So much for a separation of church and state. You would have thought that after the controversial slaying their movement got at the Dover trial they would not be able to pull something like this off. Let the brainwashing of innocents begin.

it is not the information that is bad, it is how it is taught. Learning the teachings of science and religion is good to expand knowlege and understanding for all. the problem I have is when the teacher or school uses the classroom to move their personal agenda forward.

My wife just had an argument in the grade school when they made her daughter and the rest of the class wright a letter to Obama about how the voucher program was disciminatory and shouldn't be allowed. well our views are that if you can send your kid to a better school then you should have that option. Obama had that why can't everybody else?

My point being, knowledge is good, understanding is good, but having the school or other educating body force their views on the young minds of our children is wrong. therefore they should be made to teach what is out there to teach and let the families decide how to use that in their value system.

[Andy9o8 3]

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My wife just had an argument in the grade school when they made her daughter and the rest of the class wright a letter to Obama about how the voucher program was disciminatory and shouldn't be allowed. well our views are that if you can send your kid to a better school then you should have that option.

I'm a big supporter of public schools, and I don't like vouchers. I realize that parochial school parents support them, and I understand their logic (even if, on balance, I disagree with them). But if your stepdaughter's school is a public school, it was totally wrong for them to make the kids do that. Private schools may have specialized missions; but, in terms of things like politics, religion and ideology, public schools are supposed to be agenda-neutral. I don't blame you for being pissed.

[JackC 0]

Children who grow up learning that hocus pocus is science will be unable to understand real science or function properly in any future scientific setting. Anyone who insists on teaching any subject in a class where it doesn't belong will condemn the unlucky children to be as dumb as the are. It's nothing short of child abuse.

[marks2065 0]

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My wife just had an argument in the grade school when they made her daughter and the rest of the class wright a letter to Obama about how the voucher program was disciminatory and shouldn't be allowed. well our views are that if you can send your kid to a better school then you should have that option.

I'm a big supporter of public schools, and I don't like vouchers. I realize that parochial school parents support them, and I understand their logic (even if, on balance, I disagree with them). But if your stepdaughter's school is a public school, it was totally wrong for them to make the kids do that. Private schools may have specialized missions; but, in terms of things like politics, religion and ideology, public schools are supposed to be agenda-neutral. I don't blame you for being pissed.

The publisc school system is good but needs to be made to be acountable to offer only teaching, not to express views of the teachers. the voucher program would make schools acountable by loosing funding if the students went elsewere. right now they just do what they want and the parents have no recourse but to let their kids be influenced by teachers that are impressing their values on our kids.

[JohnRich 4]

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Let the brainwashing of innocents begin.

Teaching kids different popular viewpoints is not brainwashing.

Give them all the various points of view. Then it's up to themselves and their parents to decide which to discard, and which to believe.

But some viewpoints should not be withheld, just because you don't like them. That opens up a can of worms that could quickly get out of control. And that's where the real brainwashing enters the picture. Not from too much information, but from selective picking and suppression of information by government authorities.

[Casurf1978 0]

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Teaching kids different popular viewpoints is not brainwashing.

I agree, but science and religion should be taught separately. If you are going to teach creationism might as well teach other religious views has to how the world was created. IMO religious education should be a topic left to the parents to teach not the public school system.

[JackC 0]

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Give them all the various points of view. Then it's up to themselves and their parents to decide which to discard, and which to believe.

I think we should teach FJC students the 45 degree rule. They can work out for themselves that it's bullshit.

[Capt.Slog 0]

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Give them all the various points of view. Then it's up to themselves and their parents to decide which to discard, and which to believe.

I think we should teach FJC students the 45 degree rule. They can work out for themselves that it's bullshit.

Why stop there? The Earth is center of the universe and is flat; phlogiston, there are only 4 elements, etc. Let the little darlings figure it out for themselves.

[billvon 3,173]

>Teaching kids different popular viewpoints is not brainwashing. Give them
> all the various points of view.

So you'd be OK teaching them that maybe Al Qaeda attacked us on 9/11, and maybe George Bush blew up the buildings?

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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Give them all the various points of view. Then it's up to themselves and their parents to decide which to discard, and which to believe.

I think we should teach FJC students the 45 degree rule. They can work out for themselves that it's bullshit.

Why stop there? The Earth is center of the universe and is flat; phlogiston, there are only 4 elements, etc. Let the little darlings figure it out for themselves.

How about a good dose of critical thinking?
And logic.
And the scientific method.
And teaching the little ones that questioning the status quo is a good thing.

So that when someone tries to tell them the moon landings were faked in a Hollywood studio they think about it for a couple minutes and scream "Bullshit!"

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[SpeedRacer 1]

The Flying Spaghetti Monster did it.

And the decline in pirates causes global warming.

Recent cold temperatures this winter are due to the recent, sudden increase in pirates off the coast of Somalia.

ARRRRRRR!!!!

Speed Racer
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[JackC 0]

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How about a good dose of critical thinking?
And logic.
And the scientific method.
And teaching the little ones that questioning the status quo is a good thing.

Why start now? The majority of adults don't understand the first 3 but that doesn't stop them running off a cliff with the last one. That's how crap like creationism ends up in a science class, thereby ensuring that their offspring grow up to be at least as dumb as they are.

[dmkellett 0]

I agree, teaching kids different points of view is not brainwashing. However teaching kids creationism in a SCIENCE class is brainwashing. SCIENCE is about EVIDENCE, and there is a mountain of it in support of evolution. There aint no evidence of creationism, not a shred.

If we are to give them all the various point of view as you say, we should really start at the gods of the Greeks, those of the pagans, the egyptians and so on. We should not be letting religion be taught in schools. If it has to be , it is the responsibility of the parents only. The slippery slope is here now, with the possibility of I.D being taught in a science class!!! Science is about the real world, not about story book mythical sandal wearing beardy types...

The poor kids in Louisiana are just going to be even more screwed now. screwed and confused. and they will make really good scientists when they graduate and go to university and dispute Darwin's theories.

Teaching evolution is NOT selective picking and suppression of information by governments . It is the truth. Do we not want our kids to know the truth?

[bodypilot90 0]

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I'm a big supporter of public schools, and I don't like vouchers. I realize that parochial school parents support them, and I understand their logic (even if, on balance, I disagree with them). But if your stepdaughter's school is a public school, it was totally wrong for them to make the kids do that. Private schools may have specialized missions;




The nea has distroyed public education. Johny can't read, or find Ohio or England on a map and your worried about that? Religon in the public school is the fraud of global warming, peta, all the rites of progressives.

***public schools are supposed to be agenda-neutral

They have not been that in a very long time.

[mnealtx 0]

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public schools are supposed to be agenda-neutral

They have not been that in a very long time.

QFT

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[JackC 0]

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public schools are supposed to be agenda-neutral

They have not been that in a very long time.

QFT

Bollocks. Schools have to have an agenda, they cannot operate without one. Just like every other organisation with a goal.

Stuffing creationism into a science class doesn't make you more agenda neutral, it just shifts your agenda away from teaching a purely empirical subject (by the very definition of the subject), into teaching the bastard lovechild of empiricism and bullshit.

The agenda of a school should be to give kids the best education they can get. If you try to mix subjects that have no business being in the same classroom together, you will fail. It's fucking criminal that some people want sabbotage their kids future by trying.

[DARK 0]

i cant believe that any developed nation could seriously allow this to happen creationism is a religous opinion based on religous teachings and belongs in a religous class

letting it into a science classroom is an absolute joke i hope it stays isolated to one state for your countries sake

[kelpdiver 2]

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i cant believe that any developed nation could seriously allow this to happen creationism is a religous opinion based on religous teachings and belongs in a religous class

letting it into a science classroom is an absolute joke i hope it stays isolated to one state for your countries sake

School boards are local entities, and many Christian groups have found that they can get a powerful voice there that they can't get in a wider election where perhaps 50% of the voters are interested. Far fewer participate in the running of the public schools, or even their own kids' education. As a result, over the past 20 years these problems have been prominent in many counties across the country.

It's not restricted just to the ID nuts. It was perhaps a decade ago that Oakland tried to treat "ebonics" (iow, poorly educated blacks patterns of speech) as a language.