TheAnvil 0 #76 February 2, 2009 And cost of tax preparation and avoidance is a cost US corporations must incur - a cost their competitors overseas do not. Add into that the draconian SOX requirements - and its not-inconsequential cost of accounting - in addition to the fact that unlike other major industrialized nations, US corporations have to pay taxes on profits earned abroad, and you have a palpable downside of being an American based multi-national corporation. The currently proposed government enlargement/spending package will do little to stimulate the economy - if anything. It's merely an amalgamation of pork and efforts the Dems have wanted funded over the last decade and failed to get through, being presented under the guise of a stimulus bill. I pray for its defeat - it's bad for America. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #77 February 2, 2009 Would this be a good time for a 'line-item' veto? Seems to me, with so many complaining about 'pork', this could be of benefit!? Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hwt 0 #78 February 2, 2009 Not too many people have the education & skills to do molecular biological research. But a much larger number of people have the skills to do routine assembly line work. ___________________________________________________ You sir have been in the books too long and out of the real world . Think about this . Bio-tech jobs can be out sourced to India and ect.In fact they already do Making your so-called high paying job worth less.I own a cnc machine shop and i can build almost anything and out of almost any material.I can make cars, planes or guns. and hold .0003 of an inch. i have to understand alot more then you are giving me credit.i design and build.and i am becoming a thing of the past. China's trade policies are hostel to manufacturers. Now one has answered my question yet. If the U.S. goes to war with china. Who is going to manufacture our goods? China? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt.Slog 0 #79 February 2, 2009 Quotewell, yeah. Not too many people have the education & skills to do molecular biological research. But a much larger number of people have the skills to do routine assembly line work. Well, that's the problem, isn't it. The high paying manufacturing jobs have been exported, leaving lower paying jobs for those who can't do molecular biology (and similar). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #80 February 2, 2009 QuoteQuotewell, yeah. Not too many people have the education & skills to do molecular biological research. But a much larger number of people have the skills to do routine assembly line work. Well, that's the problem, isn't it. The high paying manufacturing jobs have been exported, leaving lower paying jobs for those who can't do molecular biology (and similar). Nope, all your socks are being made in Honduras now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #81 February 2, 2009 Is there any particular reason why the US & China would want to go to war against each other? I can't think of a single benefit to such an action, but I can think of ENORMOUS drawbacks. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hwt 0 #82 February 2, 2009 Is there any particular reason why the US & China would want to go to war against each other? I can't think of a single benefit to such an action, but I can think of ENORMOUS drawbacks. ______________________________________________ What are you saying? That because war is so bad that we should not even be prepared for its occurrence?That we should just let other countries do our manufacturing because its beneath us?Is there any particular reason why you think China is our ally? I can tell you that they are not are friends and their trading policies towards us is hostile and cut throat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #83 February 2, 2009 QuoteIs there any particular reason why the US & China would want to go to war against each other? I can't think of a single benefit to such an action, but I can think of ENORMOUS drawbacks. ______________________________________________ What are you saying? That because war is so bad that we should not even be prepared for its occurrence?That we should just let other countries do our manufacturing because its beneath us?Is there any particular reason why you think China is our ally? I can tell you that they are not are friends and their trading policies towards us is hostile and cut throat. Do you suppose, we've snobbed ourselves into this financial mess? Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #84 February 2, 2009 QuoteDo you suppose, we've snobbed ourselves into this financial mess? Follow the money.... do you think all those who profited so handsomely the last 10 years are down to earth.. salt of the earth type people or the so called people who matter???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #85 February 2, 2009 QuoteIs there any particular reason why the US & China would want to go to war against each other? I can't think of a single benefit to such an action, but I can think of ENORMOUS drawbacks. Traditional warfare ... over Taiwan. Cyber-war: some argue China is already attacking the US. "China Goes on the Cyber-Offensive "Evidence is mounting that China is behind a deluge of computer-hacking attacks that have plagued Western governments and defense industries over the past few years. Both German Prime Minister Angela Merkel and the chief of British counterintelligence, or mi5, have complained about cyber-penetrations originating in China. Likewise a senior U.S. Air Force officer, Major General William Lord, of the Air Force Office of Warfighting Integration, said that China has downloaded 10 to 20 terabytes of information from U.S. defense and government computer networks." In 25 years, 'keyboard warrior' may not be a pejorative. /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,100 #86 February 2, 2009 >with so little of the money coming out in the next 12 months, even that >argument would be widely debated . . . I disagree there! You can save a company by promising to buy a million widgets from them. Once the company has a purchase order, they can take that to the bank and say "hey, we're going to tool up to make a million more of these; we need a loan to purchase raw materials." The bank, seeing a PO (which is basically a promise to pay for finished goods) will generally loan the money since it's a low risk loan. With that money, the company can hire more workers, expand their assembly line, buy more raw material - all without any money changing hands. Likewise, the value of the stimulus package is in large part its promise to spend money. If you are (for example) the Alaska state government, and get promised a few million for another bridge to nowhere, you can go out right then and start hiring construction workers and buying rebar. This often happens before the money is actually transferred. It is the _promise_ of money that stimulates the local economy. Now, the government may see this effect and taper off the stimulus package as the economy recovers, which I think would be great. Or they might see it as license to spend the rest of it, which would not be so great (but is what will probably happen.) But in either case, the economic recovery will largely be a function of how much money people _anticipate_ they will get. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #87 February 2, 2009 QuoteQuoteDo you suppose, we've snobbed ourselves into this financial mess? Follow the money.... do you think all those who profited so handsomely the last 10 years are down to earth.. salt of the earth type people or the so called people who matter???? Not no but, hell no! I meant that (original statement) a little tongue in cheek. Over all my years, I've seen more people 'of money' mess more of this country up than anything else. What's funny is, I've never seen a hearse with a luggage rack! Also, those responsible for this financial mess should be in prison, not in some million dollar hotel suite! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #88 February 2, 2009 QuoteIs there any particular reason why the US & China would want to go to war against each other? I can't think of a single benefit to such an action, but I can think of ENORMOUS drawbacks. ______________________________________________ What are you saying? That because war is so bad that we should not even be prepared for its occurrence?NoThat we should just let other countries do our manufacturing because its beneath us?Noany particular reason why you think China is our ally? 2 or more countries remain at peace when the rich guys in those countries are making big bucks through trade. That's what peace is all about: Making money. I can tell you that they are not are friends and their trading policies towards us is hostile and cut throat. Which is why there's no point in attacking one another. The cutthroat fat cats in China & America are going at it with $$ not bullets & bombs. A war would fuck everything up on both sides, AND cost a shitload of money. Nobody wants that. The best way to maintain peace is to make it economically unfeasible to go to war. China & the USA will do better by trading, and would both do much much worse if they went to war against each other. It doesn't matter if the USA & China are a bunch of money-grubbing bastards. In fact, the money-grubbing is part of the reason we're not going to war. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FallingOsh 0 #89 February 2, 2009 Quote I disagree there! You can save a company by promising to buy a million widgets from them. Once the company has a purchase order, they can take that to the bank and say "hey, we're going to tool up to make a million more of these; we need a loan to purchase raw materials." The bank, seeing a PO (which is basically a promise to pay for finished goods) will generally loan the money since it's a low risk loan. With that money, the company can hire more workers, expand their assembly line, buy more raw material - all without any money changing hands. Likewise, the value of the stimulus package is in large part its promise to spend money. If you are (for example) the Alaska state government, and get promised a few million for another bridge to nowhere, you can go out right then and start hiring construction workers and buying rebar. This often happens before the money is actually transferred. It is the _promise_ of money that stimulates the local economy. It didn't work last time because people put that money in savings or towards debt. It didn't work in the new deal when the money was actually delivered vs. just a promise. QuoteOr they might see it as license to spend the rest of it, which would not be so great (but is what will probably happen.) That right there is reason enough to be against the entire thing... even if history hadn't proved it'll fail. Here's a fun fact; if you spent $1M a day beginning at Christ's birth, you still would not have reached the cost of the stimulus package. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TrophyHusband 0 #90 February 3, 2009 Quote>. If you are (for example) the Alaska state government, and get promised a few million for another bridge to nowhere, you can go out right then and start hiring construction workers and buying rebar. no you can't. you have to have plans, do surveys, get permits, do go through whatever other red tape is involved in large construstion project. you could hand over the money today, and it would still be months if not longer before manuel labor picked up his first shovel. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #91 February 3, 2009 Keep the letters and emails going everyone. Those in office are learn that we know and understand the sow this bill is, and they are getting nervous. Way to go!!!! http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/02/02/key-democrat-says-lawmakers-strip-tens-billions-stimulus/"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #92 February 3, 2009 HHmmmmmmm http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/02/02/business/frecon.php"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #93 February 3, 2009 Ok, I have no problem with the "bully pulpit". The lines have been drawn and the debate trully begins. I just hope when it is the other side using it they remember this day and who they are supporting and why. http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_stimulus_ad_blitz/2009/02/02/177563.html"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,100 #94 February 3, 2009 > you have to have plans, do surveys, get permits, do go through > whatever other red tape is involved in large construstion project. Exactly! You'd be hiring surveyors, be ordering materials, paying permit fees, hiring architects, digging test wells etc. And this is before you get any money or start digging anything. A big construction job can spend millions on this sort of preparation; that's millions that goes into the economy of the area. Which is why Palin et al were so eager to get that pork - because it helps the economy of the area. Look at the bridge to nowhere. Nothing actually built, but she still got $26 million out of the federal government for the preparation work for it. That's a lot of jobs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FallingOsh 0 #95 February 3, 2009 Quote> you have to have plans, do surveys, get permits, do go through > whatever other red tape is involved in large construstion project. Exactly! You'd be hiring surveyors, be ordering materials, paying permit fees, hiring architects, digging test wells etc. And this is before you get any money or start digging anything. A big construction job can spend millions on this sort of preparation; that's millions that goes into the economy of the area. Which is why Palin et al were so eager to get that pork - because it helps the economy of the area. Look at the bridge to nowhere. Nothing actually built, but she still got $26 million out of the federal government for the preparation work for it. That's a lot of jobs. Bill, it doesn't work. It didn't work last century, it didn't work last year, it's not going to work now. The last estimate I read put 5% of the stimulus on public works projects. Even if it did work (which it doesn't) that's not enough to create millions of jobs building bridges and roads. Promises of anything from Washington don't mean shit. Promises of money will mean even less. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,100 #96 February 3, 2009 >Bill, it doesn't work. It does indeed work literally; it increases how fast the economy recovers. This was proven during the "war boom" of the 1940's, which pulled us out of a very long depression. It must, of course, be done intelligently; but there is not much doubt that injecting massive amounts of money into an economy increases economic activity. The larger question is "is it worth it?" I think that it is not. Without such Keynesian manipulations, the economy will take a longer time to recover - but that's OK. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #97 February 3, 2009 Quote>Bill, it doesn't work. It does indeed work literally; it increases how fast the economy recovers. This was proven during the "war boom" of the 1940's, which pulled us out of a very long depression. It must, of course, be done intelligently; but there is not much doubt that injecting massive amounts of money into an economy increases economic activity. The larger question is "is it worth it?" I think that it is not. Without such Keynesian manipulations, the economy will take a longer time to recover - but that's OK. It also fixes some of the infrastructure that is falling apart because of wrong headed management decisions to forstall maintanence and needed upgrades. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #98 February 3, 2009 QuoteKeep the letters and emails going everyone. Those in office are learn that we know and understand the sow this bill is, and they are getting nervous. Way to go!!!! http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/02/02/key-democrat-says-lawmakers-strip-tens-billions-stimulus/ NOW, Wells Fargo Bank is taking all their top execs to Vegas for a 'high on the hog' good time and you guessed it... with bail-out money. I'm sorry but, these people need to be held accountable or in jail. Bush's last minute 'mission accomplished'! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #99 February 3, 2009 Quote Quote Keep the letters and emails going everyone. Those in office are learn that we know and understand the sow this bill is, and they are getting nervous. Way to go!!!! http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/02/02/key-democrat-says-lawmakers-strip-tens-billions-stimulus/ NOW, Wells Fargo Bank is taking all their top execs to Vegas for a 'high on the hog' good time and you guessed it... with bail-out money. I'm sorry but, these people need to be held accountable or in jail. Bush's last minute 'mission accomplished'! Chuck Yep, this one screwed the pooch for sure"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FallingOsh 0 #100 February 3, 2009 Wells Fargo never needed the bailout money. They've never been in trouble and aren't using the bailout for vacations. Edited: I agree with the rest of your post. Any company fighting off bankruptcy with government funds while wasting millions on retreats should be strung up. The lack of oversight in the last stumulus is disgusting but predictable. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 4 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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FallingOsh 0 #89 February 2, 2009 Quote I disagree there! You can save a company by promising to buy a million widgets from them. Once the company has a purchase order, they can take that to the bank and say "hey, we're going to tool up to make a million more of these; we need a loan to purchase raw materials." The bank, seeing a PO (which is basically a promise to pay for finished goods) will generally loan the money since it's a low risk loan. With that money, the company can hire more workers, expand their assembly line, buy more raw material - all without any money changing hands. Likewise, the value of the stimulus package is in large part its promise to spend money. If you are (for example) the Alaska state government, and get promised a few million for another bridge to nowhere, you can go out right then and start hiring construction workers and buying rebar. This often happens before the money is actually transferred. It is the _promise_ of money that stimulates the local economy. It didn't work last time because people put that money in savings or towards debt. It didn't work in the new deal when the money was actually delivered vs. just a promise. QuoteOr they might see it as license to spend the rest of it, which would not be so great (but is what will probably happen.) That right there is reason enough to be against the entire thing... even if history hadn't proved it'll fail. Here's a fun fact; if you spent $1M a day beginning at Christ's birth, you still would not have reached the cost of the stimulus package. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #90 February 3, 2009 Quote>. If you are (for example) the Alaska state government, and get promised a few million for another bridge to nowhere, you can go out right then and start hiring construction workers and buying rebar. no you can't. you have to have plans, do surveys, get permits, do go through whatever other red tape is involved in large construstion project. you could hand over the money today, and it would still be months if not longer before manuel labor picked up his first shovel. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #91 February 3, 2009 Keep the letters and emails going everyone. Those in office are learn that we know and understand the sow this bill is, and they are getting nervous. Way to go!!!! http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/02/02/key-democrat-says-lawmakers-strip-tens-billions-stimulus/"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #92 February 3, 2009 HHmmmmmmm http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/02/02/business/frecon.php"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #93 February 3, 2009 Ok, I have no problem with the "bully pulpit". The lines have been drawn and the debate trully begins. I just hope when it is the other side using it they remember this day and who they are supporting and why. http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_stimulus_ad_blitz/2009/02/02/177563.html"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,100 #94 February 3, 2009 > you have to have plans, do surveys, get permits, do go through > whatever other red tape is involved in large construstion project. Exactly! You'd be hiring surveyors, be ordering materials, paying permit fees, hiring architects, digging test wells etc. And this is before you get any money or start digging anything. A big construction job can spend millions on this sort of preparation; that's millions that goes into the economy of the area. Which is why Palin et al were so eager to get that pork - because it helps the economy of the area. Look at the bridge to nowhere. Nothing actually built, but she still got $26 million out of the federal government for the preparation work for it. That's a lot of jobs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #95 February 3, 2009 Quote> you have to have plans, do surveys, get permits, do go through > whatever other red tape is involved in large construstion project. Exactly! You'd be hiring surveyors, be ordering materials, paying permit fees, hiring architects, digging test wells etc. And this is before you get any money or start digging anything. A big construction job can spend millions on this sort of preparation; that's millions that goes into the economy of the area. Which is why Palin et al were so eager to get that pork - because it helps the economy of the area. Look at the bridge to nowhere. Nothing actually built, but she still got $26 million out of the federal government for the preparation work for it. That's a lot of jobs. Bill, it doesn't work. It didn't work last century, it didn't work last year, it's not going to work now. The last estimate I read put 5% of the stimulus on public works projects. Even if it did work (which it doesn't) that's not enough to create millions of jobs building bridges and roads. Promises of anything from Washington don't mean shit. Promises of money will mean even less. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,100 #96 February 3, 2009 >Bill, it doesn't work. It does indeed work literally; it increases how fast the economy recovers. This was proven during the "war boom" of the 1940's, which pulled us out of a very long depression. It must, of course, be done intelligently; but there is not much doubt that injecting massive amounts of money into an economy increases economic activity. The larger question is "is it worth it?" I think that it is not. Without such Keynesian manipulations, the economy will take a longer time to recover - but that's OK. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #97 February 3, 2009 Quote>Bill, it doesn't work. It does indeed work literally; it increases how fast the economy recovers. This was proven during the "war boom" of the 1940's, which pulled us out of a very long depression. It must, of course, be done intelligently; but there is not much doubt that injecting massive amounts of money into an economy increases economic activity. The larger question is "is it worth it?" I think that it is not. Without such Keynesian manipulations, the economy will take a longer time to recover - but that's OK. It also fixes some of the infrastructure that is falling apart because of wrong headed management decisions to forstall maintanence and needed upgrades. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #98 February 3, 2009 QuoteKeep the letters and emails going everyone. Those in office are learn that we know and understand the sow this bill is, and they are getting nervous. Way to go!!!! http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/02/02/key-democrat-says-lawmakers-strip-tens-billions-stimulus/ NOW, Wells Fargo Bank is taking all their top execs to Vegas for a 'high on the hog' good time and you guessed it... with bail-out money. I'm sorry but, these people need to be held accountable or in jail. Bush's last minute 'mission accomplished'! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #99 February 3, 2009 Quote Quote Keep the letters and emails going everyone. Those in office are learn that we know and understand the sow this bill is, and they are getting nervous. Way to go!!!! http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/02/02/key-democrat-says-lawmakers-strip-tens-billions-stimulus/ NOW, Wells Fargo Bank is taking all their top execs to Vegas for a 'high on the hog' good time and you guessed it... with bail-out money. I'm sorry but, these people need to be held accountable or in jail. Bush's last minute 'mission accomplished'! Chuck Yep, this one screwed the pooch for sure"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #100 February 3, 2009 Wells Fargo never needed the bailout money. They've never been in trouble and aren't using the bailout for vacations. Edited: I agree with the rest of your post. Any company fighting off bankruptcy with government funds while wasting millions on retreats should be strung up. The lack of oversight in the last stumulus is disgusting but predictable. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
