Walther SP22 Not Available in California

[AggieDave 6]

Bill, no matter what you call it, how much you slice it and dice it, its still a ban. The state is banning weapons that are typically available to all other US citizens.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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Bill, no matter what you call it, how much you slice it and dice it, its still a ban. The state is banning weapons that are typically available to all other US citizens.

They aren't technically banning it, they are placing requirements on the sale that seem to be intended to discourage manufacturers from selling there. And they have made it more difficult to bring any weapons into the state.

It isn't a ban, but the state is clearly preventing it's citizens from possessing arms.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[AggieDave 6]

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It isn't a ban, but the state is clearly preventing it's citizens from possessing arms.

Please explain to me how preventing law abiding citizens from having arms is anything but a ban.

Of all the people on the site that would be thought to say that they are worried about "average people" owning hand guns or "assault rifles" or other arms, it would be me; however, I firmly believe in people's second amendment rights!

Placing laws in place that prevent law abiding citizens from excersizing their rights is simply a ban, a restriction of a person's rights.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[n23x 0]

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Placing laws in place that prevent law abiding citizens from excersizing their rights is simply a ban, a restriction of a person's rights.

That's not really correct though, is it? If the company has the financial incentive, they'd spring for the tests (which, to be honest don't really sound that prohibitive for product testing). The law directly restricts how a company distributes its individual product. It indirectly affects the availability of the guns that the company deems "additional market not worth additional testing", but not ALL guns.

To be honest, I can't say I view this issue much different from smog tests. If the cost of testing was really prohibitive, then I might change my stance.

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

I see it as an unreasonable, unconstitutional infringement on the rights of the citizens of California. But because the law has a (horribly restrictive) way to legally sell the weapons it isn't a ban

And no, I don't find it unusual at all for a street cop to be fully in support of gun rights. They are the ones most likely to understand:

1-How few cops are really out there to "protect" the civilian population

2-That law abiding citizens usually obey the law.

3-That criminals, by definition, don't obey the law; and that any gun laws will be ignored by them.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[rhys 0]

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I'd usually clip the text, but the ignorance in this posting has to be fully seen to understand the response.

That is pretty ripe considering pro gunners in USA seem to think that it is impossible to have a safe environment without guns.

Most of the rest of the world seems to manage!

Guns shouldn't need to be banned, people like yourself and most of the posters in this forum need to relise thast 1 gun is enough, they are not a status symbol, and more than 1 gun for every citizen in a country with more that 300 million citizens is absolutely reaterded.

Just like Ford f250's are retarded, hummers for civillian use are retarded, the american dream of everyone having a 1/2 acre section with a palace and 4 car garage is retarded, un sustainable and the reason we are all (the world economy) in the shit right now.

And you try to talk to me about ignorance,

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[downwardspiral 0]

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I'd usually clip the text, but the ignorance in this posting has to be fully seen to understand the response.

That is pretty ripe considering pro gunners in USA seem to think that it is impossible to have a safe environment without guns.

Most of the rest of the world seems to manage!

Guns shouldn't need to be banned, people like yourself and most of the posters in this forum need to relise thast 1 gun is enough, they are not a status symbol, and more than 1 gun for every citizen in a country with more that 300 million citizens is absolutely reaterded.

Just like Ford f250's are retarded, hummers for civillian use are retarded, the american dream of everyone having a 1/2 acre section with a palace and 4 car garage is retarded, un sustainable and the reason we are all (the world economy) in the shit right now.

And you try to talk to me about ignorance,

Isn't the above post an exceprt out of the book How to win friends and influence people ?

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[mnealtx 0]

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Isn't the above post an exceprt out of the book How to win friends and influence people ?

No, it's from "How to make yourself look like a complete idiot in a gun-related conversation"

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kelpdiver 2]

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I'd usually clip the text, but the ignorance in this posting has to be fully seen to understand the response.

That is pretty ripe considering pro gunners in USA seem to think that it is impossible to have a safe environment without guns.

Most of the rest of the world seems to manage!

Must be a funny definition of most of the rest of the world.

and I notice you couldn't respond to a single point of my posting exposing your poor understanding of the topic. Instead you went on some anti-Texan rant about big trucks and houses.

[kelpdiver 2]

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To be honest, I can't say I view this issue much different from smog tests. If the cost of testing was really prohibitive, then I might change my stance.

I'm getting pretty ticked off by the Smog Test Only Center type checks I have to do for my subaru, even though it the results at 1-10% of the allowed. Test only means more $$ and more hassle as I can't use mechanics I know and do it at the same time as other maintenance.

Compare the prices of Sigs and Glocks in California to elsewhere and then decide if it's prohibitive. It's not to those who can easily afford skydiving, but it is to many.

[quade 4]

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Compare the prices of Sigs and Glocks in California to elsewhere and then decide if it's prohibitive. It's not to those who can easily afford skydiving, but it is to many.

I'm confused. Why should the price be any higher in California than say Idaho at the retail level due to testing? The gun manufacturer does the test and then sets the wholesale price nationwide don't they? They aren't sending specially modified guns to California that are different than the rest of the country. They don't have, for instance, a special exhaust system. They're the same guns. Isn't it the gun seller that is setting a higher price in California and couldn't there be a LOT of reasons for their costs being higher in Calif. than the rest of the country like the price of his overhead, rent for instance?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 3,111]

>I'm getting pretty ticked off by the Smog Test Only Center type checks I have
>to do for my subaru

Yep, it's definitely annoying.

>I can't use mechanics I know and do it at the same time as other maintenance.

That's actually why they started smog-only testing. If the mechanics know you and want to save you money (especially after a repair they performed) they'll fudge the smog testing to pass you, even if the car has other problems. This became a fairly big problem in some places. Smog-test only stations have no incentive to cheat on the tests.

[rwieder 0]

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When guns are determined to be "unsafe" or "unreliable", they are forbidden from sale. But, of course, police and Olympic shooters can still use them, no problem - they are exempt from these regulations. *Only you ordinary peons are forbidden to own them.

* Key sentence in the paragraph. I wouldn't pay $2.00 USD for this POS.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[quade 4]

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When guns are determined to be "unsafe" or "unreliable", they are forbidden from sale. But, of course, police and Olympic shooters can still use them, no problem - they are exempt from these regulations. *Only you ordinary peons are forbidden to own them.

* Key sentence in the paragraph. I wouldn't pay $2.00 USD for this POS.

Not to mention that JR is corrupting the language again.

The guns aren't determined to be unsafe and then forbidden from sale.
The guns aren't allowed to be sold to the general public until it's determined that they are safe.

A fine point lost on some, but there is a difference.

It's a bit like saying the FDA has determined a drug is unsafe and is keeping it from being sold, when, in fact, it's up to the manufacturer to demonstrate that the drug is safe before it can be sold. Even then there are times when a drug gets passed and it's later determined that the drug is unsafe and it gets pulled, but there's simply no cost effective way that the government can do the testing of every drug first. That responsibility IS up to the manufacturer. Same goes for airplanes or cars or any one of a number of items that finds their way into the hands of the public.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rwieder 0]

yada...yada...yada

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[kelpdiver 2]

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>I can't use mechanics I know and do it at the same time as other maintenance.

That's actually why they started smog-only testing. If the mechanics know you and want to save you money (especially after a repair they performed) they'll fudge the smog testing to pass you, even if the car has other problems.

Yeah, I know that's why they're doing it, I just don't know why my car is on the hit list - probably due to age, but no matter how badly I treat it, it's still far cleaner than the standard.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Compare the prices of Sigs and Glocks in California to elsewhere and then decide if it's prohibitive. It's not to those who can easily afford skydiving, but it is to many.

I'm confused. Why should the price be any higher in California than say Idaho at the retail level due to testing? The gun manufacturer does the test and then sets the wholesale price nationwide don't they? They aren't sending specially modified guns to California that are different than the rest of the country. They don't have, for instance, a special exhaust system. They're the same guns. Isn't it the gun seller that is setting a higher price in California and couldn't there be a LOT of reasons for their costs being higher in Calif. than the rest of the country like the price of his overhead, rent for instance?

I'm most familiar with the rapid growth in the in state prices over the past decade. They have increased substantially (100-200$), while outside this is not seen. It's hard to blame that on overhead rather than CA regulations.

Why would a gun maker up the price everywhere rather than just for those shipped to CA?

[AggieDave 6]

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hey aren't sending specially modified guns to California that are different than the rest of the country.

Yes they do. Some manufactures have created MA and CA specific models to meet the unnecessary legislative requirements. Its not the drop test requirements since literally every modern weapon that costs more than $100 will pass those tests, its the requirements for indicators that show loaded or not. They sell those models across the country, but they are typically low sellers.

Some manufactures have found that those extras have caused unnecessary complications and have simply decided not to sell in the market. A good example would be some of the 1911 manufactures and the problems they've had.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[downwardspiral 0]

Also it's not the additional testing that is the problem, it's the cost of certification. My employer recently had to change the catalytic converters on his wife's Jeep Liberty. Unfortunately they weren't available from anyone other than Jeep thanks to CARB. $1,800.00 just for the catalytics. Out of state non-CARB approved were $400.00. After pulling some strings he did get the out of state cats and they proved cleaner than originals.

The difference? The company was not willing to spend $150k for the certification. $50k per part number for 3 cats. And that certification has to be done for every year of the vehicle regardless of if two disimilar years utilize the same part numbers.

In the end who pays for this? We do.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[Ron 10]

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Guns shouldn't need to be banned, people like yourself and most of the posters in this forum need to relise thast 1 gun is enough, they are not a status symbol, and more than 1 gun for every citizen in a country with more that 300 million citizens is absolutely reaterded.

And people who fear guns need to realize that just because they fear something does not make it bad. They need to get over their petty little fears and realize that they have no clue what they are talking about. It is just like the whuffo that thinks skydiving is stupid because skydivers can get killed.

When a non gunner says, "Why do you want a gun?" It is JUST like the whuffo asking "Why do you skydive?"

I tend to ignore the whuffo when they make stupdi statements.... Who's business is it that I participate in an activity I enjoy? Theirs? Who gives them the right to say that we should not shoot/jump? They have no clue what they are talking about.

I ignore the whuffos because by definition, they are ignorant.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334