President Bush commutes the sentences of Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean

[masterrig 1]

I wonder if, the penalty these two Patrol Agents recieved was so much to really punish them or was the punishment so as to please the Mexican government and people? Was it because our politicians have their collective heads so far up the ass of Mexico that they're smelling breath-mints?
Granted, these two agents were wrong in trying to cover-up the truth and that, is what they should've been charged with. For their killing a drug runner/dealer... good for them! The punishment was way too much.
As for that wall? You bet! I'm with you on the idea that if, they or anyone else wants to come to this country, they can do it right or not at all. It's just a form of tough love!


Chuck

[bodypilot90 0]

they just shot the asshat, he lived, I would have sent them to the shooting range so they could aim better. If i remember correctly (i am sure the lefties will cry if i am wrong) the same asshat was caught again. shooting is to good for him and other like him. Tall tree and shot rope would work

You have to remember that the people crying about the poor mistreated misunderstood victim of his lifestyle, are the same ones crying about gitmo but think it's fine to kill a baby with a post birth abortion.

[billvon 3,154]

>they just shot the asshat, he lived, I would have sent them to the shooting
>range so they could aim better.

I agree. They should get a commendation for that. They should, though, go to jail for hiding evidence and lying to investigators.

>are the same ones crying about gitmo but think it's fine to kill a baby with a
>post birth abortion.

"Post birth abortion?" Is that a euphemism for sending kids to die in the Iraqi desert?

[masterrig 1]

Yeah, hell! the son of a bitch could've been re-habilitated! Not likely. I too, wish that their aim had been better. The only thing I didn't like about the whole deal was their screwin' with the facts. I'm sure, at the time, those two agents were pretty nervous about shooting a Mexican National. Too fuckin' bad, I say! the son of a bitch was bringing dope into this country! Those two agents were trying to do their job. Which has been so restricted because of the ignorant politicians and beeding-hearts in this country who don't know just exactly the situation on the Southwest border. Those two agents should've gotten total pardons... they served enough time. I guess, a commutation will work. Kind of like a nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse!


Chuck

[funjumper101 15]

Righties are really twisted people. On the one hand, they are all about following the law and the importance of enforcing the law.
On the other hand, when the convicted criminals are LEOs that commited the crimes DURING THE COURSE OF THEIR EMPLOYMENT, it is a travesty of justice to hold them accountable for their actions.

Can any one of you righties explain this complete lack of standards and ethics?

Either you believe in the rule of law and the justice system here, or you don't. You can't have situational ethics on matters of this nature and expect to be taken seriously.

[masterrig 1]

You bet! I'm all in favor of cops! I'm in favor of the cop out there bustin' his ass so that you and I can have some semblence of order and safety in our lives. I'm all in favor of the cop who helps an old man change a flat tire or help a kid who fell off his bike and skinned his knee. I'm in favor of the cop who has to deal with gang-bangers, dope runners, armed robbers or home invaders and risks his life for you and me. I am not in favor of the 'dirty' cop who selfishly turns his back on his badge for his own gain. None of us were there when those two Border Patrolmen shot a dope runner. As I said earlier, as for them twisting the facts or just flat lying in regard to events of the case, I'm not in favor of that and they should have been punished for lying. I do feel, the sentence for that was a little stiff. Something you need to understand. At this time, along our Southwest border, shots are being taken at our Border Patrol agents on a regular basis and some of those shots have resulted in the deaths of several Agents this past year alone. These guys have a tough job as do all cops and I'm sure, there are occasions when a cop will succumb to the pressure. I would hate to think of life in this country without police officers. There's good and bad in every occupation... it comes with the territory. If, you want to call me twisted for supporting law enforcement officers... get after it. I've seen much, much worse people recieve 'presidential pardons'. Can you explain the lack of standards and ethics in them?


Chuck

[bodypilot90 0]

could not agree with you more

[funjumper101 15]

Quote

You bet! I'm all in favor of cops! I'm in favor of the cop out there bustin' his ass so that you and I can have some semblence of order and safety in our lives. I'm all in favor of the cop who helps an old man change a flat tire or help a kid who fell off his bike and skinned his knee. I'm in favor of the cop who has to deal with gang-bangers, dope runners, armed robbers or home invaders and risks his life for you and me. I am not in favor of the 'dirty' cop who selfishly turns his back on his badge for his own gain. None of us were there when those two Border Patrolmen shot a dope runner. As I said earlier, as for them twisting the facts or just flat lying in regard to events of the case, I'm not in favor of that and they should have been punished for lying. I do feel, the sentence for that was a little stiff. Something you need to understand. At this time, along our Southwest border, shots are being taken at our Border Patrol agents on a regular basis and some of those shots have resulted in the deaths of several Agents this past year alone. These guys have a tough job as do all cops and I'm sure, there are occasions when a cop will succumb to the pressure. I would hate to think of life in this country without police officers. There's good and bad in every occupation... it comes with the territory. If, you want to call me twisted for supporting law enforcement officers... get after it. I've seen much, much worse people recieve 'presidential pardons'. Can you explain the lack of standards and ethics in them?

Chuck

Let me see if I understood you correctly.

These guys were LEOs on the job. They had a tough job. During that time frame it was especially bad. In the heat of the moment, they make the bad choice to lie, cheat, and steal, while on the job. Because they are LEOs with a tough job, at a tough time, they deserve to have their actions held to a lesser standard than private citizens. In other words, LEOs do not have the same requirements to follow the law as do private citizens, especially if they are on the job.

Did I get that right?

[masterrig 1]

I like your sig line!

Chuck

[masterrig 1]

You missed my point completely. As I said, there's good and bad in every walk of life. For the most part, I have faith in police officers. As for 'dirty' cops, I have no use for them and they should be dealt with. As for Ramos and Campean, what would you have liked to see happen to them? I get the impression, you would rather we either don't have LEOs as you so affectionately refer to them, or they just stand-by passivly. I'd like to hear your thoughts. Are you more in favor of more rights for criminals? Do you just feel that all cops are bad and get all the 'breaks' because they wear a badge? Enlighten us!


Chuck

[n23x 0]

I tend to agree with you!

I think a decent amount of LEOs are out to do the right thing, and (at least locally) I have had mainly professional, friendly interactions with them.

I also think that cops are subject to a more stressful environment, but expect that (as that is their chosen profession) they will train mentally and physically to operate well in that environment.

The one thing that I think most of the people tend to disagree on is the punishment for LEOs who screw up big time. As professionals, they are held to a higher societal standard, a position of trust. The public needs to be able to feel confident, and that they can trust, people in that position.

I would advocate stiffer penalties to demonstrate that corrupt behavior is neither rewarded, or covered up, or even just ignored.

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[masterrig 1]

I would advocate stiffer penalties to demonstrate that corrupt behavior is neither rewarded, or covered up, or even just ignored.

.jim

[bodypilot90 0]

in this case the shot shite head is both

thanks,

[funjumper101 15]

Quote

You missed my point completely. As I said, there's good and bad in every walk of life. For the most part, I have faith in police officers. As for 'dirty' cops, I have no use for them and they should be dealt with. As for Ramos and Campean, what would you have liked to see happen to them? I get the impression, you would rather we either don't have LEOs as you so affectionately refer to them, or they just stand-by passivly. I'd like to hear your thoughts. Are you more in favor of more rights for criminals? Do you just feel that all cops are bad and get all the 'breaks' because they wear a badge? Enlighten us!

Chuck

Ramos and Compean should have served out their sentences.
They were tried, convicted, and sentenced in a court of law. Why are you righties so quick to excuse them? Are you losing faith in the US court system's ability to deliver fairness and justice? Special consideration of the events and circumstances is just for LEOs, right? For private citizens, the law is the law. No special consideration there, correct?

I am in favor of equal application of the law to everyone. No special breaks for LEOs, or anyone else. You do the crime, you do the time.

I have personal experience as the victim of LEOs who engaged in a conspiracy and committed perjury to obtain a conviction. As a juvenile, I was convicted of something I knew nothing about and had no knowlege of. I was arrested, tried, and convicted based on a completely fictional scenario concocted the the police in the town I grew up in. The same group of LEOs was convicted a few years later for conspiracy, B&E, grand theft and possession of stolen property.
I have a very skeptical view of the LEO profession. Things like the LEO in Tulia, TX, who was lauded as an example of a true professional and received multiple awards, confirm my feelings. To the best of my knowlege, the State of Texas and the other organizations that granted the awards never rescinded them, in spite of what he did.

The LEO profession is like any other. There are good ones, bad ones, and some that should never had gotten a badge at all.

[masterrig 1]

Why didn't you say all that earlier! Here, I was, getting the wrong impression thinking you were just someone who just blatantly hated cops. After what you said, I have a much clearer picture and I can see where you are coming from. You make some damned good points. I agree with you too, about that self-serving, so-called 'cop' in Tulia. I would like you to understand, I too hate 'dirty' cops and like you feel, they should get a stiffer sentence than anyone else when they break the law. that's because, we hold police officers in a higher regard and are taught to trust them. Much like priests, clergy, coaches and etc. I just felt that in the case of Campean and Ramos, they served enough time for what they did. Maybe, I'm wrong. that's just how I feel.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

If, I might add, as a result of the 'rogue cop' in Tulia, Texas, 35 of those convicted of drug charges were given pardons by the Governor of Texas. Also, as a result of Tom Coleman's (rogue cop) trial for purgery, The Texas Department of Public Safety, made vast changes in the way it and other Law Enforcement Agencies enforce the laws here in Texas. So, as a result, some good did result. This is not to say that 'rogue' or 'dirty' cops suddenly vanished but, they do have better ways of finding them and dealing with them. I can find nothing that says Coleman was stripped of his accolades and medals. Also, the Sheriff in these cases was just as bad and as for any proceedings, I don't know. did you ever hear anything more about him?
Nothing is perfect but, when we fail, is when we don't try to change things or 'fix' them.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

O,K. I went back and did some digging into the Ramos - Compean matter. These were two Border Patrol Agents doing their jobs. (Ramos, had previously been awarded 'Patrol agent of the Year') They were in persuit of a known drug smuggler. Shots were fired (not just by Ramos and Compean) and the smuggler took a slug in the butt. Among those present were supervisory Patrol agents. As for Ramos and Compean trying to cover anything up, it wasn't much of an attempt on their part. The attorney general and prosecutor, offered the drug smuggler amnesty if, he would testify against Ramos and Compean. Three jurors stated later that they were given poor instructions by the judge and intimidated by other jurors one of whom was friends with the judge. In the meantime, the smuggler was treated for his wound at an El Paso hospital and us tax payers foot the bill. Ramos' family has since recieved death threats and Ramos was half beat to death by 'illegal alien' prisoners while in jail. Both officers wre in 'general population'. After Ramos and Compean were sentenced, the drug smuggler involved, later plead guilty to two previous drug smuggling charges.
Looks like they were rail-roaded, to me! They may have screwed-up by not filing written reports of the incident but, like they said... their supervisors were there at the time.
I guess, you can feel any way you want about those two Agents but, after more thinking and research, they never should have seen the inside of a courtroom except to testify against the drug smuggler involved. They damned sure didn't get any help from the government they worked for.


Chuck