Damn global warming.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

I don't think you understand the links you are posting.

I understand enough to know that the science is not settled. I understand they should climate swings as big or bigger than what the alarmists say we are going through or are abour to go through have happened in the past, befor man could have anything to do with

I know the alarmists have lied about polar bear populations and are wrong today about the amount of ice in the various places they have spoken to.

I know the alarmists will say "well, I have traveled and seen this and that and it has to be" yet they will say what is happening today is an anomoly.

I know that some researchers say the data the alarmists use show CO2 levels follow temp changes and not lead it. THIS is a core premise to thier whole argument and that is not yet settled

I know the alarmists would change our way of life to live they way they think we should live .

I know if the alarmists get thier way there would be a world type tax on carbon , which is not even a polutant

If you have followed my position at all on this thread you would know that.

No, I dont understand.......





AWG is not proven or even close to being proven.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Capt.Slog 0]

Quote

Quote

I don't think you understand the links you are posting.

I understand enough to know that the science is not settled. I understand they should climate swings as big or bigger than what the alarmists say we are going through or are abour to go through have happened in the past, befor man could have anything to do with

I know the alarmists have lied about polar bear populations and are wrong today about the amount of ice in the various places they have spoken to.

I know the alarmists will say "well, I have traveled and seen this and that and it has to be" yet they will say what is happening today is an anomoly.

I know that some researchers say the data the alarmists use show CO2 levels follow temp changes and not lead it. THIS is a core premise to thier whole argument and that is not yet settled

I know the alarmists would change our way of life to live they way they think we should live .

I know if the alarmists get thier way there would be a world type tax on carbon , which is not even a polutant

If you have followed my position at all on this thread you would know that.

Your position appears to be:

It never happened.
It happened but stopped in 1998 (or 2008).
It's happening but it is part of a natural cycle.
It's happening but it is good for us.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I don't think you understand the links you are posting.

I understand enough to know that the science is not settled. I understand they should climate swings as big or bigger than what the alarmists say we are going through or are abour to go through have happened in the past, befor man could have anything to do with

I know the alarmists have lied about polar bear populations and are wrong today about the amount of ice in the various places they have spoken to.

I know the alarmists will say "well, I have traveled and seen this and that and it has to be" yet they will say what is happening today is an anomoly.

I know that some researchers say the data the alarmists use show CO2 levels follow temp changes and not lead it. THIS is a core premise to thier whole argument and that is not yet settled

I know the alarmists would change our way of life to live they way they think we should live .

I know if the alarmists get thier way there would be a world type tax on carbon , which is not even a polutant

If you have followed my position at all on this thread you would know that.

Your position appears to be:

It never happened.
It happened but stopped in 1998 (or 2008).
It's happening but it is part of a natural cycle.
It's happening but it is good for us.

You been PMing with billvon it appears.

But, some one lieing about my position on this topic is nothing new.

Just another failed attempt to shut up someone you do not agree with.

Nice try

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Hey Captin

How are Spock. Scotty and the doc doing????

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

Ok Marc.... lets assume that the alarmists are right..... since you like to think nothing can happen.... step outside for a sec and think of.. what if they are indeeed right.

What would you do then???

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Ok Marc.... lets assume that the alarmists are right..... since you like to think nothing can happen.... step outside for a sec and think of.. what if they are indeeed right.

What would you do then???

How far do we take that type of what if scenario?
What if your chute does not open? and then what if your rigger messed up your reserve and it don’t open either.. Going to stop jumping? What if you have an auto accident on the way to work. Statistically there is a good chance of it. Going to stop going to work?

Look, I am for common sense alternative energy, conversation and the like, but what is being floated is down right criminal.

Take wind energy, there are two reasons wind farms are being built, and neither of those reasons are profit. But they can be profitable. How? Well Obama’s plan to carbon tax the coal plants out of existence will do it. Good thing?

How about the UN's proposal for a world carbon tax? Environment or money and power? You decide.

Palioclimatologists are providing more and more evidence that what we are seeing is much more natural than man made. Is the climate changing? Yes, no question. Is it changing FASTER because of man? Good question. Are we seeing anything today that is greatly different than what the researchers are saying have happened in the past? Does not appear to be so.

Yes, we have to made decisions so let me ask you. What IF we implement all they want and they are wrong?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Ok Marc.... lets assume that the alarmists are right..... since you like to think nothing can happen.... step outside for a sec and think of.. what if they are indeeed right.

What would you do then???

So the GW religion is playing Pascal's card?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Amazon 7]

So how do you and Marc feel about living in the desert???

I guess you get more jumpable and warm days. That could be a good thing...

On the flip side... Corn needs a hell of a lot of water as does wheat to grow. You only need to look at North Africa in Roman times when it was the breadbasket... literally.. of the empire. Today with a warmer climate it is desert, Canada and Russia will benefit as the warmth moves north... but the agricultural output of this country will suffer with more protracted droughts. Do you really believe that will be good for the 300 million plus residents of our country?

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Quote

... but the agricultural output of this country will suffer with more protracted droughts. Do you really believe that will be good for the 300 million plus residents of our country?

How much currently non-arable land is there in Alaska? That total US yield will go down is not a given.

[Amazon 7]

I have been to Alaska... lived there for months on end summer and WINTER.. and If you start melting permafrost.. you dont get arable land.. you get miles and miles of MUCK. It does not drain... is pretty low lying in most places especcially in the major river valleys of the Yukon and Tanana River. Its already exceedingly marshy land. It is not at all like the higher elevations of Eastern Alberta and Saskatchewan

[rehmwa 2]

permafrost - frozen swamp

yuck - keep it frozen

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 3,110]

>Take wind energy, there are two reasons wind farms are being built, and
>neither of those reasons are profit.

====================
Native American tribes see profit in wind power
By Felicity Barringer
Published: October 10, 2008

ROSEBUD, South Dakota: The wind blows incessantly here in the high plains; screen doors do not last. Wind is to South Dakota what forests are to Maine or beaches are to Florida: a natural bounty and a valuable inheritance.

Native American tribes like the Rosebud Sioux now seek to claim that inheritance. If they succeed in building turbine farms to harness some of the country's strongest and most reliable winds, tribal officials like Ken Haukaas believe, they could create a new economic underpinning for the 29,000 tribal members whose per capita annual income is about $7,700, less than a third the national average.

"We're broke here," Haukaas said. "We're poor." But, he added: "The wind is free. There's energy here all the time."
=====================

>But they can be profitable. How?

By building them in good wind locations, and by sharing the land they are on with things like farmland, pasture and roads.

>Well Obama’s plan to carbon tax the coal plants out of existence will
>do it. Good thing?

Closing coal plants would be a good thing overall for the environment,

>What IF we implement all they want and they are wrong?

Then we will end up with a cleaner world with a lower overall CO2 concentration in the atmosphere.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Quote

I have been to Alaska... lived there for months on end summer and WINTER.. and If you start melting permafrost.. you dont get arable land.. you get miles and miles of MUCK. It does not drain... is pretty low lying in most places especcially in the major river valleys of the Yukon and Tanana River. Its already exceedingly marshy land. It is not at all like the higher elevations of Eastern Alberta and Saskatchewan

You are thinking way too short term. The GW industry keeps talking about the long term consequences. If Canada's north, Siberia and Alaska warmed up we can grow a hell of a lot of food. Maybe rice until we drain it, but that worked out well for the Asians. Whether it will be swamped by the loss of land currently under cultivation is uncertain, but they are awfully large chunks of land.
The short term (say, next thousand years or so) human costs will be high, but really, if the long term result was to increase the carrying capacity of our planet, wouldn't that be a good thing?

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>Take wind energy, there are two reasons wind farms are being built, and
>neither of those reasons are profit.

====================
Native American tribes see profit in wind power
By Felicity Barringer
Published: October 10, 2008

ROSEBUD, South Dakota: The wind blows incessantly here in the high plains; screen doors do not last. Wind is to South Dakota what forests are to Maine or beaches are to Florida: a natural bounty and a valuable inheritance.

Native American tribes like the Rosebud Sioux now seek to claim that inheritance. If they succeed in building turbine farms to harness some of the country's strongest and most reliable winds, tribal officials like Ken Haukaas believe, they could create a new economic underpinning for the 29,000 tribal members whose per capita annual income is about $7,700, less than a third the national average.

"We're broke here," Haukaas said. "We're poor." But, he added: "The wind is free. There's energy here all the time."
=====================

>But they can be profitable. How?

Because they operate under different rules than the rest of the country because of the indian status.No comertial instulation has yet made any profit on the build and maintenance costs vs sold product. That is why we have those pushing for laws to force energy companies to buy private wind generated electricity at a retail cost

By building them in good wind locations, and by sharing the land they are on with things like farmland, pasture and roads.

>Well Obama’s plan to carbon tax the coal plants out of existence will
>do it. Good thing?

Closing coal plants would be a good thing overall for the environment,

>What IF we implement all they want and they are wrong?

Then we will end up with a cleaner world with a lower overall CO2 concentration in the atmosphere.

Since CO2 may not hurt anything (and this may be the case) then the price is way to high for no benifit.

But, I know you dont care as long as you can push a lifestyle you think to be correct on the rest of us damned poluters.......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,110]

>Because they operate under different rules than the rest of the country
>because of the indian status.

Correct. And given that, they can choose more businesses than most groups. They chose wind because it makes them money, requires little maintenance and works for a long, long time.


>No comertial instulation has yet made any profit on the build and
>maintenance costs vs sold product.

Neither would coal without government subsidies on railroads, mines and environmental mitigation. If the coal industry had to actually pay for all the land it used, the coal it shipped and the damage it did, coal companies would be out of business in weeks.

>That is why we have those pushing for laws to force energy companies
>to buy private wind generated electricity at a retail cost . . .

Yep. I do that myself via the net metering law. A good law, IMO.

[rushmc 23]

Yep. I do that myself via the net metering law. A good law, IMO.

[billvon 3,110]

>I am glad you can use our government to force a company to buy a product
>on which they cant make any profit.

Yep. It allows people to install practical wind and solar power systems, thus lessening our dependence on fossil fuels, helping prevent blackouts and reducing people's power costs.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>I am glad you can use our government to force a company to buy a product
>on which they cant make any profit.

Yep. It allows people to install practical wind and solar power systems, thus lessening our dependence on fossil fuels, helping prevent blackouts and reducing people's power costs.

No sir, it reduces capitalism and put a socialist government in its place. I know you are ok with that.

But, if you like forcing a company to buy a product back for more money than they can make if for, well, I glad you are not in power.

By the way, it does not reduce cost to most consumers, it raises it. Only the few that can affore the metering and protection (unless you would force the company to provide that too) makes it prohibative for most to install.

I understand you even more now. Scarry........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>I am glad you can use our government to force a company to buy a product
>on which they cant make any profit.

Yep. It allows people to install practical wind and solar power systems, thus lessening our dependence on fossil fuels, helping prevent blackouts and reducing people's power costs.

You want to sell back on the grid in the open market I am ok with that. Not a thing to argue about. But this is price setting. You do not like that when the oil comanies (supposedly) did it? But your ok with the gov setting prices of whay you are selling.

Now I get it......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,110]

>But, if you like forcing a company to buy a product back for more money than
>they can make if for, well, I glad you are not in power.

Fortunately, people like me are - and thus we have net metering laws. The result will be a reduced reliance on fossil fuels, fewer blackouts, less need for new transmission lines, and lower power costs for people who choose to install solar.

[billvon 3,110]

>You do not like that when the oil comanies (supposedly) did it?

You're making things up again. I have no problems with high oil prices.

[billvon 3,110]

>I froze my ass off at the beach in San Diego last week. Global warming MY ASS.

It's 92F here today. Global warming is over MY ASS!

[Amazon 7]

OMG..

BillVon is saying he has a HOT ASS....


DUDE.. this is not bonfire

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>You do not like that when the oil comanies (supposedly) did it?

You're making things up again. I have no problems with high oil prices.

Price setting billvon, price setting is what we are talking about. and I know you have no problem with HIGH oil prices

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>I froze my ass off at the beach in San Diego last week. Global warming MY ASS.

It's 92F here today. Global warming is over MY ASS!

Ah, did not say it was not happening. Never have. I just doubt man and CO2 have anything to do with it.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln