Damn global warming.

[billvon 3,114]

>Price setting billvon, price setting is what we are talking about.

Yep. And I never claimed that I did "not like that when the oil comanies (supposedly) did it."

[masterrig 1]

Then too, there is the 'proposed' tax on livestock emissions. The proposal is $85.00 per head of cattle and $15.00 per head of hogs! What will this do to the beef and pork industry? It'll run a lot of farmers and ranchers out of business. I think, too many of these global warming folks have been in the sun too long!


Chuck

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Then too, there is the 'proposed' tax on livestock emissions. The proposal is $85.00 per head of cattle and $15.00 per head of hogs! What will this do to the beef and pork industry? It'll run a lot of farmers and ranchers out of business. I think, too many of these global warming folks have been in the sun too long!


Chuck

The $85 is on beef animals. It is $175 for milk cows. We have a guy in my area that with the cows and calves he has every year this fucking tax will be over 1 million dollars!!!

Price controls, money power, telling you and me how we have to live because the likes of billvon know what is best for all of us.

They go into our "pulic" schools and brain wash our children......... fuck it. I aint giving up (that is what they want) but I am getting damn tired of it. They would destroy this country to push their agenda on us.

Ya, and the conservatives are bad........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>Price setting billvon, price setting is what we are talking about.

Yep. And I never claimed that I did "not like that when the oil comanies (supposedly) did it."

Oh, so you like selective price settings!!!

I guess that is obvious with your selling back to the power company position. (competitive market be damned) should have seen that one coming........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,114]

>Oh, so you like selective price settings!!!

Nope, never said that either. Perhaps you should direct your replies to the person who made the statement. Mr. Straw, perhaps, or his brother Mr. Man.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>Oh, so you like selective price settings!!!

Nope, never said that either. Perhaps you should direct your replies to the person who made the statement. Mr. Straw, perhaps, or his brother Mr. Man.

Oh, so you dont like the same bull shit you throw tossed back at you huh?

Cool, maybe we will see less of YOU doing it in the future.

For the record, I know you did not say those things directly, but, it could be twisted to been seen as that point!!

It can work both ways. Want to honest, or want to throw shit. You can decide now........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[masterrig 1]

Quote

Quote

Then too, there is the 'proposed' tax on livestock emissions. The proposal is $85.00 per head of cattle and $15.00 per head of hogs! What will this do to the beef and pork industry? It'll run a lot of farmers and ranchers out of business. I think, too many of these global warming folks have been in the sun too long!


Chuck

The $85 is on beef animals. It is $175 for milk cows. We have a guy in my area that with the cows and calves he has every year this fucking tax will be over 1 million dollars!!!

Price controls, money power, telling you and me how we have to live because the likes of billvon know what is best for all of us.

They go into our "pulic" schools and brain wash our children......... fuck it. I aint giving up (that is what they want) but I am getting damn tired of it. They would destroy this country to push their agenda on us.

Ya, and the conservatives are bad........

I couldn't agree with you more!
I'm not a cattleman or rancher but, I've been around it all my life and I can see, what this would do to ranchers, dairy farmers, hog raisers and etc., it's absolutely nuts! Maybe, they ought to tax people for emitting noxious gasses. Especially some of these politicians. I don't know of a single meat producer who could afford that tax. Those educated fools with all the answers need to step-out and see the real world and learn more about 'life' instead of coming-up with a bunch of ridiculous knee-jerk reactions. You can't get everything out of a book.


Chuck

[Andrewwhyte 1]

I haven't heard of this livestock tax and I don't understand it. Cattle produce greenhouse gasses by burning renewable carbon sinks. If the cattle owner must pay for his beasts' emissions does the crop farmer take a cheque from the gov for sequestering the carbon?

[masterrig 1]

This has been in the news lately. I'd doubt the farmers would get a check... more like more of a hard time. If, a tax such as the 'greenies' (I don't mean the 'mods' here... the other greenies.) the price of beef, pork and milk would go higher than we've recently paid for a gallon of gasoline. Trying to pin 'global warming' on livestock is absolutely goofy. Do folks lay awake nights coming-up with these 'brain-storms'?


Chuck

[rhys 0]

Quote

I understand enough to know that the science is not settled. I understand they should climate swings as big or bigger than what the alarmists say we are going through or are abour to go through have happened in the past, befor man could have anything to do with

If you have lived in an un polluted area (im mean untouched) and then you visit, los angeles for example.

then you will realise that having millions cars and trucks propelled by internal combustion engines burning fossil fuels is not good, un-filtered industrial activity...not good, using all usable land for human activity without nature reserves..... guess what not good.

This failure to see the negative effect of human activity on earth is generally from pigheadded (that'l be $15 tax thanks) greedy, morons.

Just keep on raping the recources, make money, who gives a shit what happens in 100 years, we'll all be dead anyway right!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

I understand enough to know that the science is not settled. I understand they should climate swings as big or bigger than what the alarmists say we are going through or are abour to go through have happened in the past, befor man could have anything to do with

If you have lived in an un polluted area (im mean untouched) and then you visit, los angeles for example.

then you will realise that having millions cars and trucks propelled by internal combustion engines burning fossil fuels is not good, un-filtered industrial activity...not good, using all usable land for human activity without nature reserves..... guess what not good.

This failure to see the negative effect of human activity on earth is generally from pigheadded (that'l be $15 tax thanks) greedy, morons.

Just keep on raping the recources, make money, who gives a shit what happens in 100 years, we'll all be dead anyway right!

Absolutely

I want my kids and grandchildren to die choking on the air and dieing of open puss filled ozing wounds caused by poluted land.
I also would want to see them freeze and starve because we have used up all the energy this planet has (insert evil laugh here)
I am such a fucker

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

If you have lived in an un polluted area (im mean untouched) and then you visit, los angeles for example.

I've been to somewhat untouched places. I drove to get there.

Quote

then you will realise that having millions cars and trucks propelled by internal combustion engines burning fossil fuels is not good

Not good? Compared to what? A society wihtout internal combustion engines? It turns out that we had sociaeties like that for eons. Then people realized that society sucked much less with such technology, such that people would PAY to have them.

Quote

using all usable land for human activity without nature reserves..... guess what not good.

When nature reserves become valuable, people buy land to become a nature reserve, and charge people to use them. Or, people become environmentalists and build log cabins in them - and take steps to ensure that nobody else has the opportunity to utilize the land.

Quote

This failure to see the negative effect of human activity on earth is generally from pigheadded (that'l be $15 tax thanks) greedy, morons.

This failure to see the positive effect of human activity on earth is generally from pigheaded (FUR KILLS! THROW PAINT ON IT!), greedy (yes, greedy) morons. I'd rather live in smoggy Los Angeles than in non-smoggy third-world place with no civil infrastructure. COmpare life expectancy in the polluted industrialized world with life expectancy outside of it.

Quote

Just keep on raping the recources

Calling use of resources "rape" is like calling sex "rape." Sure, certain types of activity fit the definition, but most forms do not.

Quote

make money

Now you're on to something! "Find a way to make money by going green." See? You've hit on the answer!

Quote

who gives a shit what happens in 100 years, we'll all be dead anyway right

The last thing you'll want to do is give a shit - it'll pollute the environment.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rhys 0]

Quote

Not good? Compared to what? A society wihtout internal combustion engines? It turns out that we had sociaeties like that for eons. Then people realized that society sucked much less with such technology, such that people would PAY to have them.

the internal combustion engine is 100 years old, and is well past its use by date, unfortunately, intellectual property law allows the small few that make shitloads of cash from us consumers, keep on doing it, there have been alternatives for decades.

Quote

When nature reserves become valuable, people buy land to become a nature reserve, and charge people to use them. Or, people become environmentalists and build log cabins in them - and take steps to ensure that nobody else has the opportunity to utilize the land.

Where does that air that you breath come from?, the water you drink... catch my drift...

Quote

This failure to see the positive effect of human activity on earth is generally from pigheaded (FUR KILLS! THROW PAINT ON IT!), greedy (yes, greedy) morons. I'd rather live in smoggy Los Angeles than in non-smoggy third-world place with no civil infrastructure.

What about a clean, modern, orderly place with all the civil infrastructure and a genuine concern for the well being of the surrounding environment and ecosystems?

wouldn't that be better?

Quote

Calling use of resources "rape" is like calling sex "rape." Sure, certain types of activity fit the definition, but most forms do not.

go visit a landfill and see the waste, go visit an opencast mine and see the carnage, look at what you throw out everyday, coffee cups, packaging, food....

Everything is made to last only a short period of time so we continue to buy more of the same items. Tell me an industry that doesn't do this. valuable resources are being wasted unnecessarily.

eg, ceramic shaver bladed were invented last century and don't go blunt fo a very long time, how many shavers would you not buy if 1 would last you years?

We are wasting resources left right and centre, we are just used to it and do not desire the change we need.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[lawrocket 3]

I'm not saying things can't be better. I am saying that things can ba worse. Everything has a cost and a benefit.

Quote

What about a clean, modern, orderly place with all the civil infrastructure and a genuine concern for the well being of the surrounding environment and ecosystems?

Because places like this have waste disposal, which as I see below, just isn't a good thing.

Quote

go visit a landfill and see the waste

Yes. A see the genius that is a system of segregating that stuff and putting it away in some place where it won't hurt anybody. And THAT is what we are doing better now than ever - not making ouur trash disappear but making it more benign.

Quote

go visit an opencast mine and see the carnage

What some see as carnage others do not. What you see as carnage I see as where we get our copper. You see the environmental destruction wrought by an open pit mine as greater than the destruction caused by, say, a solar generating station. The Bingham Pit in Utah is the largest in the world at 1900 acres made unusable to anyone for anything else. The Mojave Solar Park is nine square miles of death to anyone and anything that happens to be there for any period of time longer than a couple minutes, and hailed as an environmental wonder (of course, they need copper for it).

Quote

look at what you throw out everyday, coffee cups, packaging, food....

Yes. And from personal anecdotal evidence, throwing out that ziploc bag meant I didn't throw away that bread. Ever noticed that packaged food just doesn't spoil as quickly as unpackaged? What one sees as waste I can see as waste prevention. Give and take. TO prevent waste, I have a kegerator that recycles pretty much every bit of packaging.

Quote

Everything is made to last only a short period of time so we continue to buy more of the same items

Strange. Everything is packaged so it lasts longer. Of course, we could still be using carburetors in cars, but fuel injection was more efficient. Those incandescent bulbs burn out, so fluorescent replace them. Cost and benefit.

Quote

how many shavers would you not buy if 1 would last you years?

Plenty. I'd also pay $50 for one.

Quote

We are wasting resources left right and centre

We are using resources left, right and center. I think there is plenty of waste out there, but some would define all use as waste.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rhys 0]

Quote

We are using resources left, right and center. I think there is plenty of waste out there, but some would define all use as waste.

I agree with you entirely there, but we are using much more than we need to, they don't need to be made of oil, and there is no cosequence for deliberately using more harmful substances than are available.

I still buy stuff and consume, but I avoid unececassary and avaidable waste, as you have told us you do, but infortunately, too many do not care in the slightest. that creates pollution that we all do not need!.

where does it end up? some of it by nice people like you will dispose of it proerly my many do not and you end up with;

http://kaiborn.com/assets/images/greenpeace-trashVortex.jpg

this type of stuff makes me fell ill in the stomach!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Nelyubin 0]

Global warming?


The mankind carries out monitoring natural changes no more than 200 years. How many years to a planet?

June 2008g http://picasaweb.google.ru/sky.yugorsk/_#

At the moment the Europe fell asleep a snow, the temperature fell below -30C .

Where that is warmer, where that is colder.
In general it is equal.

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

http://kaiborn.com/...eace-trashVortex.jpg

Is this something that exists now?

We are all engines of karma

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

Quote

http://kaiborn.com/...eace-trashVortex.jpg

Is this something that exists now?

Yes.

Wiki entry

Test version of article from Natural History magazine

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[billvon 3,114]

> It turns out that we had sociaeties like that for eons.

Yep. Then we got horses. Yay! More power! Easier to get around! But it turns out the horse poop isn't so good in big cities; moving even modest amounts of goods means tons of poo. It became a public health hazard.

Then we had trains. Yay! More power! More range! Coast to coast transportation! But they needed their own rights of way, had to stop often, and the sparks from the wood combustion started a lot of fires. So they moved on to coal, and then fossil fuels.

Then we had cars - first electric, then steam, then internal combustion. Yay cars! Freedom of the open road! Trucking! Lowriders! Loud stereos! But it turns out that when you have more cars than people, pollution becomes a real problem. It sickens and kills people. So you have CARB laws to clean up the air.

Now we are seeing PZEV's, hybrids and pure electrics appear on the scene. They will take the place of current cars just as cars replaced other (less capable and dirtier) technology.

>When nature reserves become valuable, people buy land to become a nature
>reserve, and charge people to use them.

The problem there is the word "use." The most important function of nature reserves (which is another way of saying "land we don't mess up") is not in its value to an individual owner. It is in clean air, clean water, waste disposal and ecological diversity. That's why private ownership doesn't work.

It's the classic prisoner's dilemma. Do you do something that gives you (and the rest of the country) a slight benefit, or do you do something that gives you and your family enormous benefit, and is only slightly detrimental to the rest of the country? In a capitalist society, you are a fool if you do not enrich yourself at the expense of others.

If you inherit that 100 acres of land in the 'burbs, what do you do? Do you preserve it because there's a bird that lives there who eats mosquitoes, or because it's an important aquifer recharge location? Or do you just build on it, make a few million, and get the government to spray for mosquitoes and build another aqueduct?

Multiply that decision by hundreds of thousands and you have the mess that we find ourselves in today in many places. Dropping water tables, air pollution, ecological disruption and traffic/sanitation/water problems we can't build our way out of. All because people find "nature reserves" valuable for more than just birds that eat mosquitoes.

[StreetScooby 5]

OMG!

We are all engines of karma

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>I froze my ass off at the beach in San Diego last week. Global warming MY ASS.

It's 92F here today. Global warming is over MY ASS!

Date line Central Iowa

Predictied temps tonight is - 26.

Havent seen temps like this since we were in this part of the climate cycle some 30 years ago

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,114]

>Predictied temps tonight is - 26.

Predicted here:

Thurs 81
Fri 81
Sat 80
Sun 79

[ChrisD 0]

I was speaking with some undergrads at MIT yesterday. The topic was "summer jobs." We all noticed a number of posters and flyers that were pasted and stapled to walls everywhere, litter'arly everywhere. Most universities have a policy that you need to register or at least be a student to post shit paper in the halls walls....

So without the "stamp" of approval you can tell when some "outside" agency or company has littered the walls with junk paper.

This mass posting of offers for "Summer Jobs for The Enviorment" was everywhere so the topic of disscussion was who and why were they doing this, and what can we do about it other than remove the offensive and against school policy postings?

So some of the students I spoke with decided to give the 1-800 number a call and see who and what was and is behind this.

Turns out that this work at home job consists of monitoring web sites: Blogs, forums, news stations, etc.. And then responding with: Moderate, middle of the road comments debunking global warming and other ecology minded responses. All for about 7 dollars an hour. Reminds me of religion and Judas?

Seems they install some sort of keystroke monitoring software and yo get paid for how much time yo spend cutting and pasteing "canned" responses to any "search" of topics that have the key words: Global Warming, etc.," in the phrase or similar.

Some job hu?

Seems also that the "supervisors" are trained to find individuals with a lot of time on there hands, need money, and are a bit of social outcasts....

Never mind the fact that they are also selected on thier personal views and knowledge level of issues pertaining to science. In other words lot's of buisness majors and liberal arts students are the ones that get these "desirable" jobs.

Go to any college or public place like "Harvard Square," and you will see these same ads stapled to telephone poles or posted on the walls outside popular hangouts!

Grass roots advertising, or companies with millions to spend any way they see fit? Please keep in mind that the average super bowel 20 seconds of time cost 2.5 million. That's $125,000.00 peer second!

So how much do big coal and the crotch brothers have to spend? How miuch is just one percent of their gross?

Can yo say that one percent of the conglomerated energy companies gross is over one trillion dollars?

You all need to start focusing on the cure to understand why the fat cats spend less than one percent to ensure their going to survive at the publics expense. Nothing new here, History is rife with explotation at the expense of the mindless and powerless... and gulliable....


All you have to do is count the number of posts on a subject to see who and what these Judas's are. Do a search for Global Warming, and respond only to those, move on to the next webb site...


How can some people post the amount they do, and in the same breath claim they have full time jobs?

Figure it out for yourself folks; paid advertising or public forum?

C

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[kallend 2,147]

Is there an echo in here?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Heatmiser 0]

ChrisD

I was speaking with some undergrads at MIT yesterday. The topic was "summer jobs." We all noticed a number of posters and flyers that were pasted and stapled to walls everywhere, litter'arly everywhere. Most universities have a policy that you need to register or at least be a student to post shit paper in the halls walls....

So without the "stamp" of approval you can tell when some "outside" agency or company has littered the walls with junk paper.

This mass posting of offers for "Summer Jobs for The Enviorment" was everywhere so the topic of disscussion was who and why were they doing this, and what can we do about it other than remove the offensive and against school policy postings?

So some of the students I spoke with decided to give the 1-800 number a call and see who and what was and is behind this.

Turns out that this work at home job consists of monitoring web sites: Blogs, forums, news stations, etc.. And then responding with: Moderate, middle of the road comments debunking global warming and other ecology minded responses. All for about 7 dollars an hour. Reminds me of religion and Judas?

Seems they install some sort of keystroke monitoring software and yo get paid for how much time yo spend cutting and pasteing "canned" responses to any "search" of topics that have the key words: Global Warming, etc.," in the phrase or similar.

Some job hu?

Seems also that the "supervisors" are trained to find individuals with a lot of time on there hands, need money, and are a bit of social outcasts....

Never mind the fact that they are also selected on thier personal views and knowledge level of issues pertaining to science. In other words lot's of buisness majors and liberal arts students are the ones that get these "desirable" jobs.

Go to any college or public place like "Harvard Square," and you will see these same ads stapled to telephone poles or posted on the walls outside popular hangouts!

Grass roots advertising, or companies with millions to spend any way they see fit? Please keep in mind that the average super bowel 20 seconds of time cost 2.5 million. That's $125,000.00 peer second!

So how much do big coal and the crotch brothers have to spend? How miuch is just one percent of their gross?

Can yo say that one percent of the conglomerated energy companies gross is over one trillion dollars?

You all need to start focusing on the cure to understand why the fat cats spend less than one percent to ensure their going to survive at the publics expense. Nothing new here, History is rife with explotation at the expense of the mindless and powerless... and gulliable....


All you have to do is count the number of posts on a subject to see who and what these Judas's are. Do a search for Global Warming, and respond only to those, move on to the next webb site...


How can some people post the amount they do, and in the same breath claim they have full time jobs?

Figure it out for yourself folks; paid advertising or public forum?

C

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What you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo

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