Atheist advert provokes complaint

[vortexring 0]

Right Butters. So far I understand you meditate on nothing, so as to experience nothing, regardless of your beliefs in God, but you recommend not doing so if you're afraid of wolves.

I seeeeeee. . . . . .

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[Butters 0]

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Right Butters. So far I understand you meditate on nothing, so as to experience nothing, regardless of your beliefs in God, but you recommend not doing so if you're afraid of wolves.

I seeeeeee. . . . . .

I don't think you see anything except the wool religion has pulled over your eyes.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[vortexring 0]

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>What about people who pray and do something about whatever it is they're
>praying about?

Well, I guess they'd be like people who meditate on nothing and then go out and actually do something, eh?

If you believe meditating on nothing is the same as prayer.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[vortexring 0]

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Right Butters. So far I understand you meditate on nothing, so as to experience nothing, regardless of your beliefs in God, but you recommend not doing so if you're afraid of wolves.

I seeeeeee. . . . . .

I don't think you see anything except the wool religion has pulled over your eyes.

How? I've never followed or believed in any particular religion in my life.

edit: So could you please explain why you meditate on nothing to experience nothing, regardless of your beliefs in God, but you recommend not doing so if you're afraid of wolves? Perhaps I'm being a bit slow - I apologise in advance of your explanation.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[billvon 3,120]

>If you believe meditating on nothing is the same as prayer.

I think if meditation gives someone the same personal benefits that prayer does - yes, they are quite similar. Prayer (or meditation) won't solve your money problems, or fix your marriage, or get you through grad school. But if either one gives you the serenity, or the perspective, or the drive to go out and get a better job, or work harder at school, or work harder on your marriage - then they have both accomplished the same thing.

[vortexring 0]

But we're talking about meditating on nothing to experience nothing, remember?

Further to that, what of the people who've experienced something which was significant enough for them to believe?

What's your explanation of that? They've been mistaken? They're mad? Deluded?

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[JackC 0]

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They could be something else entirely?

So far you agree they could be mistaken, they could be liars or fools. Or something else entirely.

What is this something else entirely?

I dunno, any of the things on the long list of things that people can be. Including right.

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edit: You also mention personal experience being not much use as evidence - to an extent I disagree, as it could be more than enough evidence for an individual - which has been my point all along.

Without something to verify your experience, you could easily be mislead. Take eyewitness testimony for example. This reference suggests that up to 75% of eyewitnesses are mistaken in their conclusions. So given that personal experience is so unreliable, isn't it better to have something known to be objectively true to back it up before you base your decisions on it?

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If you've an individual with no experience, what's the solution? What have you done to come to your conclusion? Again, what about these people with experience? Doesn't that play merry hell with your conclusion on the subject?

Personally, if it's something I've got no experience of and I need to know about it, I'll try to break it down and attack it from first principles. Start with something I know is correct and build from that. But as with any opinion, you've got to be prepared to change it when new evidence is produced. And that only plays merry hell with your conclusions if you're a stubborn old bugger and don't like change. Otherwise you should be grateful that you've been shown the error of your ways.

[Butters 0]

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How? I've never followed or believed in any particular religion in my life.

You come across (at least in this thread) as someone who does follow a particular religion.

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edit: So could you please explain why you meditate on nothing to experience nothing, regardless of your beliefs in God, but you recommend not doing so if you're afraid of wolves? Perhaps I'm being a bit slow - I apologise in advance of your explanation.

Does it matter why I do it? After all, I do it for my own reasons and it's not affecting anyone else. If you want some reasons then think of them for yourself or do some research. I recommend starting with Buddhist texts.

PS: The shepherds, sheep, and wolves are metaphors commonly used in the Christian religion.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[vortexring 0]

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They could be something else entirely?

So far you agree they could be mistaken, they could be liars or fools. Or something else entirely.

What is this something else entirely?

I dunno, any of the things on the long list of things that people can be. Including right.

Glad you included being right! I also appreciate they could also be wrong!

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edit: You also mention personal experience being not much use as evidence - to an extent I disagree, as it could be more than enough evidence for an individual - which has been my point all along.

Without something to verify your experience, you could easily be mislead. Take eyewitness testimony for example. This reference suggests that up to 75% of eyewitnesses are mistaken in their conclusions. So given that personal experience is so unreliable, isn't it better to have something known to be objectively true to back it up before you base your decisions on it?

Yes, but what of the billions of people who've had similiar experiences to yourself?

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If you've an individual with no experience, what's the solution? What have you done to come to your conclusion? Again, what about these people with experience? Doesn't that play merry hell with your conclusion on the subject?

Personally, if it's something I've got no experience of and I need to know about it, I'll try to break it down and attack it from first principles. Start with something I know is correct and build from that. But as with any opinion, you've got to be prepared to change it when new evidence is produced. And that only plays merry hell with your conclusions if you're a stubborn old bugger and don't like change. Otherwise you should be grateful that you've been shown the error of your ways.

I don't quite follow. . . this hasn't got anything to do with wolves has it?

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[vortexring 0]

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How? I've never followed or believed in any particular religion in my life.

You come across (at least in this thread) as someone who does follow a particular religion.

Which would be what then?

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edit: So could you please explain why you meditate on nothing to experience nothing, regardless of your beliefs in God, but you recommend not doing so if you're afraid of wolves? Perhaps I'm being a bit slow - I apologise in advance of your explanation.

Does it matter why I do it? After all, I do it for my own reasons and it's not affecting anyone else. If you want some reasons then think of them for yourself or do some research. I recommend starting with Buddhist texts.

PS: The shepherds, sheep, and wolves are metaphors commonly used in the Christian religion.

[Butters 0]

I'll give you a few examples ...

There are people who believe in a God and who believe that God created every thing. Meditating on nothing helps remove every thing leaving just God.

There are people who believe in focusing on some thing. Meditating on nothing helps remove every thing which allows them to then to focus on some thing.

There are people who believe everything is a construct based on suffereing. Meditating on nothing helps remove the construct and thus remove suffering.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[JackC 0]

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Yes, but what of the billions of people who've had similiar experiences to yourself?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

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I don't quite follow. . . this hasn't got anything to do with wolves has it?

Huh?

[Butters 0]

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Which would be what then.

Christian.

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But why would you recommend I don't if I'm afraid of wolves?

Wolves are a metaphor. Some religious leader (the shepherds) don't want you (the sheep) to think for yourself and consider those people that would have you (the sheep) think for yourself to be dangerous (the wolves). Thus, if you're afraid of wolves then you're probably a sheep and you shouldn't stray from your shepherd.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[deibido 0]

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I'd call that a tacit acknowledgement that the prayer itself isn't going to achieve anything.

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"Trust in God, but keep rowing for the shore"

- Russian Proverb

"User assumes all risk"

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[deibido 0]

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While meditating on nothing I experienced nothing.

So why meditate?

What is it that makes a jar useful? Or a door? Or a window?

"User assumes all risk"

[billvon 3,120]

>But we're talking about meditating on nothing to experience nothing, remember?

Right. And if that puts them in a better frame of mind - one that helps them accomplish their goals - great; it works as well as prayer.

>Further to that, what of the people who've experienced something which
>was significant enough for them to believe?

Well, as long as it didn't involve drugs or killing people - do whatever it was you were doing again!

[Butters 0]

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Well, as long as it didn't involve drugs or killing people - do whatever it was you were doing again!

So you don't believe that any of the religious rituals that involve drugs should have or should be practiced?

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[rehmwa 2]

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What?

There are reasons to experience nothing regardless of your belief in a God. Feel free to experiment (and experience) on your own ... unless you're afraid of wolves.

CRAP - I was trying to focus on nothing here, and now all I can think of is wolves

Butters - DON'T picture pink elephants with blue wings

(that'll teach you)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Butters 0]

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CRAP - I was trying to focus on nothing here, and now all I can think of is wolves

Butters - DON'T picture pink elephants with blue wings

(that'll teach you)

I shouldn't have used a metaphor since people are already misinterpreting every thing I say today ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[billvon 3,120]

>So you don't believe that any of the religious rituals that involve drugs should
>have or should be practiced?

Nope. People should do whatever they like, provided it's legal. And drugs are legal in a lot of places in the world. (And yes, I am all for religious exceptions to drug laws.)

[rehmwa 2]

I might be a little late to the gym tonight, I'm scared to go outside. Scared of wolves.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Butters 0]

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I might be a little late to the gym tonight, I'm scared to go outside. Scared of wolves.

That's what the revolver is for.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[DannHuff 0]

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Now lets see what God has to say on the matter.

'Only fools say in their hearts, “There is no God.”'

Notice it refers to the heart and not the head.

Somebody needs to read up on MAT 5:22

"but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

Mat 5:22 is referring to a man cursing another man. The opening text is God making a statement about those who have foolishly decided in their hearts there is no God.

[FallloutboyDAoC 0]

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Mat 5:22 is referring to a man cursing another man. The opening text is God making a statement about those who have foolishly decided in their hearts there is no God.

Why is it foolish?

[maadmax 0]

If you can't prove a negative , how can you experience a negative?

You can not experience it

--Nonsense. Millions of married men experience no sex.