Another nutter with gasoline

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Try sticking to the point, the government does not have my medical records, I go to private doctors and if releasing my tax records could be used to fight crime then I'd strongly consider it.

Interesting that you go this route. Kallend has indicated a non specific interest in eliminating medical privacy rights in order to prevent mentally suspect people from purchasing guns through normal channels (using an FFL). But he can't quite articulate it while still being against the Patriot Act.

How about you? Are you willing to trade up rights and privacy to fight terrorism? Or "gun crime?"

BTW, with the upcoming Medicare explosion, the government does have a compelling reason to have your medical records too.

[sfc 1]

Quote

Quote

Try sticking to the point, the government does not have my medical records, I go to private doctors and if releasing my tax records could be used to fight crime then I'd strongly consider it.

Interesting that you go this route. Kallend has indicated a non specific interest in eliminating medical privacy rights in order to prevent mentally suspect people from purchasing guns through normal channels (using an FFL). But he can't quite articulate it while still being against the Patriot Act.

How about you? Are you willing to trade up rights and privacy to fight terrorism? Or "gun crime?"

BTW, with the upcoming Medicare explosion, the government does have a compelling reason to have your medical records too.

I'd consider it, I haven't thrown in the towel on reducing gun crime like some have.

There are also laws that go to the extreme of protecting the gun industry, laws that make it easier to get away with gun crime. Tiahrt prevents ATF trace info from being used in prosecution of gun crime, I don't see how that helps, I'd be interested to hear specifics from the NRA types as to why this is so bad. Almost (kelpdiver excepted) all the comments have been generalizations and are kinda pointless, I know what the pro-NRA position is, no-one seems to have the knowledge to discuss Tiarht and it's details directly and I've read the NRA web site spin about it.

I don't see medical records as being a way to fight organized gun crime (gun running) which I think is the biggest problem we have, however I don't have a problem with a requirement for medical records to be released in the cases of "nutters".

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

however I don't have a problem with a requirement for medical records to be released in the cases of "nutters".

I do.

Would you prefer people not seek help for depression, in order to keep it from being known? Only a small percentage of people seeking mental health care are obvious nutters, but any move in this direction would affect all of them.

It would be as productive as the suggestions to radically increase the cost of ammunition. No better way to increase accidents than to make practice too expensive.

[TypicalFish 0]

Quote

Quote

But they are regulated.
That's usually the point.

You don't think any more can be done to reduce the number of guns in criminal hands?

How do you regulate something in people who don't follow regulations?

Edited for spelling only

"I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Tiahrt prevents ATF trace info from being used in prosecution of gun crime, I don't see how that helps, I'd be interested to hear specifics from the NRA types as to why this is so bad. Almost (kelpdiver excepted) all the comments have been generalizations and are kinda pointless...

You keep bringing this up, but you have yet to do anything but generalize yourself.

So why don't you start by specifically telling us how you think that access to gun trace data is going to reduce crime.

And I hope that you do already know that any police agency that requests a trace on a particular crime gun, gets it.

And I would hope that you also already know that just because a crime gun is traced back to a point of sale at some gun shop, doesn't necessarily mean that the gun shop did anything illegal.

[sfc 1]

Quote

Quote

Tiahrt prevents ATF trace info from being used in prosecution of gun crime, I don't see how that helps, I'd be interested to hear specifics from the NRA types as to why this is so bad. Almost (kelpdiver excepted) all the comments have been generalizations and are kinda pointless...

You keep bringing this up, but you have yet to do anything but generalize yourself.

So why don't you start by specifically telling us how you think that access to gun trace data is going to reduce crime.

And I hope that you do already know that any police agency that requests a trace on a particular crime gun, gets it.

And I would hope that you also already know that just because a crime gun is traced back to a point of sale at some gun shop, doesn't necessarily mean that the gun shop did anything illegal.

Allowing ATF trace data to be used in prosecution of criminal gun dealers for example. At the moment gun shops can sell arms illegally and even if 100s of weapons can be traced back to them this info cannot be used to prosecute them if the local authorities can even obtain the trace info in the first place which they cant under current law.
If a 2nd hand car dealers name came up often in regard to stolen cars they could be investigated based on probably cause, not so with guns, preventing this info from being available makes it harder to track the criminal activity.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Allowing ATF trace data to be used in prosecution of criminal gun dealers for example. At the moment gun shops can sell arms illegally and even if 100s of weapons can be traced back to them this info cannot be used to prosecute them if the local authorities can even obtain the trace info in the first place which they cant under current law.

First of all, if you can show criminal sales, the ATF is more than happy to do the prosecution. Even local law agencies can do stings to see if they're complying with the law. Lack of trace data doesn't stop any of that. And it only takes one blatant criminal sale to shut down a gun store.

Just because 100's of crime guns may trace back to a gun shop, doesn't mean that the gun shop is doing something illegal. If they can show that they complied with the law in those sales, then they shouldn't be prosecuted. You seem to be assuming something evil here, that isn't necessarily true. Once a legal gun leaves his store, he is not responsible for what happens to it later.

And most crime guns are a decade or more past their original point of sale.

There's also the volume factor. There is one man here in Houston who runs four gun stores, and this is in the fourth largest city in America, in a pro-gun state. So he does indeed have a lot of traces come back to him, but that's because he sells so many in the first place. But his percentage is no worse than anyone else. So you shouldn't assume evil based upon numbers alone.

Then there are many guns that are traced that aren't even involved in crimes. Such as guns found lost where they are trying to return it to its rightful owner, or guns turned in at gun buy-back events.

Quote

If a 2nd hand car dealers name came up often in regard to stolen cars they could be investigated based on probably cause, not so with guns, preventing this info from being available makes it harder to track the criminal activity.

There you go. Investigation is one thing. Prosecution for wrong-doing where none exists is another.

You're barking up the wrong tree. The gun trace statistics mean nothing about gun crime. The BATF has even issued a statement to this effect.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

At the moment gun shops can sell arms illegally and even if 100s of weapons can be traced back to them this info cannot be used to prosecute them if the local authorities can even obtain the trace info in the first place which they cant under current law.

LMAO - and you accuse US of spouting NRA rhetoric?

Where do you get THIS bullshit from?? Every sale from a gunshop has to have the paperwork done and the insta-check done (exceptions for CCW holders do exist). The BAT-boys can come check that paperwork (called a bound book) at any point. And, as stated above, LE *can* request a trace and it's done.

Quote

If a 2nd hand car dealers name came up often in regard to stolen cars they could be investigated based on probably cause, not so with guns, preventing this info from being available makes it harder to track the criminal activity.

First off, prove this is happening - that gunshops are selling to known criminals and cooking the books.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[normiss 855]

One of my biker buddies carry concealed one time.
Riding his chopper, the back of the seat apparently pushed the gun out of his waistband.
He reported it lost.
2 weeks later, middle of the night, we're having a friendly night with some Crown Royal.
Cop shows up at the door, friendly as can be, to return the pistol. "Did you lose a 9mm recently?
Nice guy!

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

One of my biker buddies carry concealed one time.
Riding his chopper, the back of the seat apparently pushed the gun out of his waistband.
He reported it lost.
2 weeks later, middle of the night, we're having a friendly night with some Crown Royal.
Cop shows up at the door, friendly as can be, to return the pistol. "Did you lose a 9mm recently?
Nice guy!

Excellent!

And yet the anti-gun folks claim that because we don't have gun registration, that guns can't be traced back to the owner. That's false of course, it just takes several steps to do so, instead of consulting a single government database.

And that would have counted as a "gun trace", which the Brady anti-gun bunch would want to count against some gun store as a negative statistic, with the motivation of getting them shut down.

[normiss 855]

Nice that you keyed on the only part that bothered us about the return...
We were both like....DAMN!

He didn't renew his conceal carry permit - his reasoning was the return of his S&W from the local PD, and the fact that carrying in a bar WITH a CCP is apparently a more serious charge than carry in a bar WITHOUT a CCP.
Something about the biker bars he frequented.

[sfc 1]

Quote

Nice that you keyed on the only part that bothered us about the return...
We were both like....DAMN!

He didn't renew his conceal carry permit - his reasoning was the return of his S&W from the local PD, and the fact that carrying in a bar WITH a CCP is apparently a more serious charge than carry in a bar WITHOUT a CCP.
Something about the biker bars he frequented.

When he reported it as missing he told the police what kind of firearm he had, the local PD would not have needed to run a trace. ATF can only release trace info for a criminal investigation, I expect he would not have gotten it back if he had not reported it.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Nice that you keyed on the only part that bothered us about the return...
We were both like....DAMN!

He didn't renew his conceal carry permit - his reasoning was the return of his S&W from the local PD, and the fact that carrying in a bar WITH a CCP is apparently a more serious charge than carry in a bar WITHOUT a CCP.
Something about the biker bars he frequented.

When he reported it as missing he told the police what kind of firearm he had, the local PD would not have needed to run a trace. ATF can only release trace info for a criminal investigation, I expect he would not have gotten it back if he had not reported it.

Hmm, seems to be the case with ANY stolen property

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[sfc 1]

Quote

Nice that you keyed on the only part that bothered us about the return...
We were both like....DAMN!

He didn't renew his conceal carry permit - his reasoning was the return of his S&W from the local PD, and the fact that carrying in a bar WITH a CCP is apparently a more serious charge than carry in a bar WITHOUT a CCP.
Something about the biker bars he frequented.

So you friend carries in bars illegally. In other words he is a criminal who had a CCP and you don't have a problem with that?

[normiss 855]

Never been to an outlaw biker bar then, no?

In that environment, the majority of the customers are carrying.

[Andy_Copland 0]

I once went to an outlaw biker bar with my beat box on my shoulder and eminem rocking the house. I had my cap to the side and a gold harley chain with leather chaps and a fubu shirt.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[normiss 855]

I notice no mention of coming OUT of the bar.....

[Andy_Copland 0]

I left when i was good and ready. They saw that crazy look about me and kept clear.

Hard as a coffin nail!

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

The fact is, knives are used quite often to commit murder. Regardless of what country you look at.

Why is everyone so unconcerned about knives used in crime?

Not too many drive by knivings.

Why start a thread about gasoline bombs because you want to discuss the difference between gun perception and knife perception....quite silly.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Not too many drive by knivings.

From a 2006 article in The Independent

Quote

The number of muggers using knives leapt from 24,290 to 42,020 in 2005-06, an increase of 73 per cent. And the total of other robberies in which knives were brandished jumped by 59 per cent, from 25,500 to 40,430.

So now they're cracking down on knives, probably with the same results as below:

From the Manchester Evening News, May 2007:

Quote

SPIRALLING gun crime is blighting Greater Manchester with more than 3,000 firearms incidents in the last 15 months, the MEN can reveal today.

This startling figure equates to SEVEN gun-related incidents EVERY day.

And actual shootings, not including crimes where guns were not fired, increased nine per cent in the last 12 months alone, with 120 confirmed discharges.

Officers who compiled the figures say the blight being caused by gun crime is "severe", saying children as young as ten are joining south Manchester's notorious gangs.

It still takes a human to do the deed - something those that cry out to ban the TOOL seem to forget.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Not too many drive by knivings.

News:

Woman repeatedly slashed after confronting gang who stabbed her dog to death

A disabled woman was slashed repeatedly with a knife after confronting a gang who had stabbed her dog to death in her garden.

The mother-of-three discovered the mutilated body of her Yorkshire terrier lying in a pool of blood outside her door.

Seconds later she was confronted by four men who threatened her, forced her back into the house, and then attacked her with a knife.

The 38-year-old suffered 'numerous' cuts to her body and had to be treated in hospital.

Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1106890/Woman-repeatedly-slashed-confronting-gang-young-13-stabbed-dog-death.html

I don't know why they even bothered to print this story. It was only a knife. Who gives a damn?

[sfc 1]

Quote

Quote

Not too many drive by knivings.

News:

Woman repeatedly slashed after confronting gang who stabbed her dog to death

A disabled woman was slashed repeatedly with a knife after confronting a gang who had stabbed her dog to death in her garden.

The mother-of-three discovered the mutilated body of her Yorkshire terrier lying in a pool of blood outside her door.

Seconds later she was confronted by four men who threatened her, forced her back into the house, and then attacked her with a knife.

The 38-year-old suffered 'numerous' cuts to her body and had to be treated in hospital.

Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1106890/Woman-repeatedly-slashed-confronting-gang-young-13-stabbed-dog-death.html

I don't know why they even bothered to print this story. It was only a knife. Who gives a damn?

Kinda sad how much time you spend bashing the UK, you need to get a life...

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Not too many drive by knivings.

News:

Woman repeatedly slashed after confronting gang who stabbed her dog to death

A disabled woman was slashed repeatedly with a knife after confronting a gang who had stabbed her dog to death in her garden.

The mother-of-three discovered the mutilated body of her Yorkshire terrier lying in a pool of blood outside her door.

Seconds later she was confronted by four men who threatened her, forced her back into the house, and then attacked her with a knife.

The 38-year-old suffered 'numerous' cuts to her body and had to be treated in hospital.

Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1106890/Woman-repeatedly-slashed-confronting-gang-young-13-stabbed-dog-death.html

I don't know why they even bothered to print this story. It was only a knife. Who gives a damn?

Kinda sad how much time you spend bashing the UK, you need to get a life...

It is extreemly sad (even after repeated explinations) that you do not get the point of these posts. Hint, not aimed at the UK

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[sfc 1]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Not too many drive by knivings.

News:

Woman repeatedly slashed after confronting gang who stabbed her dog to death

A disabled woman was slashed repeatedly with a knife after confronting a gang who had stabbed her dog to death in her garden.

The mother-of-three discovered the mutilated body of her Yorkshire terrier lying in a pool of blood outside her door.

Seconds later she was confronted by four men who threatened her, forced her back into the house, and then attacked her with a knife.

The 38-year-old suffered 'numerous' cuts to her body and had to be treated in hospital.

Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1106890/Woman-repeatedly-slashed-confronting-gang-young-13-stabbed-dog-death.html

I don't know why they even bothered to print this story. It was only a knife. Who gives a damn?

Kinda sad how much time you spend bashing the UK, you need to get a life...

It is extreemly sad (even after repeated explinations) that you do not get the point of these posts. Hint, not aimed at the UK

u and jr even have similar avatars, how cute is that.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Kinda sad how much time you spend bashing the UK, you need to get a life...

I never mentioned where this attack occurred. It could have happened anywhere.

It's kind of sad how, instead of commenting on a horrific knife crime, instead all you can think about is nationalism.