Andrewwhyte 1 #301 January 6, 2009 Quote QuoteMany (dare I say most) Arabs want the Jews dead and Israel gone. When did you take your survey? I wish I were so sure to know what more then a billion people are thinking at all times. Your Special aren’t you? Huh? A billion Arabs? I don't think so. Hyperbole doesn't help your argument (and no, I don't give a fuck if they use it too, it still detracts from your argument). QuoteThe reasons the Israelis are hated is they built homes on top of others, destroyed lives and have been killing and oppressing the Palestinians for more then 60 years. This conflict is not 60 years old. Using that a a starting point is no more valid than using 1975 as a starting point in Iran and saying the revolution had no right whatsoever to overthrow the Shaw, or that the US has always been in Iraq so there is no valid argument for those who oppose their presence. Until the Palestinians, and the rest of the Arab world concedes not only the fact, but the right of the Jews to exist in Israel the conflict will continue. Since that isn't going all that well let's hope that concession is soon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #302 January 6, 2009 QuoteYea because in all democracies we have Jews only roads, and segregation add to that palestinian roads and territories that Israelis are not allowed in. this has nothing to do with racism nor religion, get over it already. QuoteSome gems from Falxori -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- after years of unprovoked constant rocket attacks from Gaza -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes there is nothing to see here move right along. Yes yes they are born crazy they just like blowing them selves up. Keep on moving nothing to see here. We are inocent as snow. yeap, you finally got it. unprovoked constant attacks QuoteIsrael had the chance to accept the Palestinian democratically elected officials as well before or after they vowed to destroy Israel? oh wait, they never stopped doing that... "elected" doesnt equal "good", they elected terrorists, now they pay the price. QuoteIf they were black they would be called the N word, if they were Brown they would be called the SN word. who said "racist"? what the hell are you talking about? btw, israelis come in all shapes, sizes and colors, yes, black too. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #303 January 6, 2009 QuoteYou're right about the outcry being one sided (surprising to see it even coming from traditionally Israel supporters - Daily Mail, for example). My guess that it looks like overkill (sic) - Big Bully picking on weaker bully but primarily IMHO, because of the innocents being caught in the middle. Israel is not winning friends in most parts of the world, this time. That was the exact same reaction to Israel invading Lebanon in 2006 in the wake of Hezbollah doing ... what was it now? ... Oh! I remember - it was lobbing rockets into Israel! Hezbollah bravely based themselves in the middle of their own civilian population - thereby placing their own civilians in harm's way - and then when those civilians came to harm, Hezbollah just hunkered down and waited it out until the predictable world outcry against Israel came. It's a deliberate, repeatedly-used strategy of placing your own civilians in harm's way, knowing that the world will scream not at you, but at your enemy. Fatah has done it in the West Bank; Hezbollah did it in Lebanon; Hamas is doing it now. The naivete of people who don't recognize this is breathtaking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #304 January 6, 2009 People recognise it - well I do. Evil done on either side is no less evil because of that knowledge. If you KNOW that innocents are in the line of fire - hey, DON'T FIRE - go about things a different way. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #305 January 6, 2009 QuoteQuote QuoteThe Israelis have also banned international journalists going into to Gaza um, what rights do they have over someone elses country? Did Gaza suddently stop having a shoreline? As far as I know Israel has never stopped controlling Gaza's sea traffic. If they can get rockets and guns in, they can get people in.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #306 January 6, 2009 QuotePeople recognise it - well I do. Evil done on either side is no less evil because of that knowledge. If you KNOW that innocents are in the line of fire - hey, DON'T FIRE - go about things a different way. Sounds tasty in the abstract. Tell you what, you come up with a detailed plan on just how Israel can do that and still survive, and FedEx it over to Jerusalem ASAP. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #307 January 6, 2009 Sarky git .. I never said that I had the answers... just what I consider to be wrong. I, for one consider the killing of innocents as wrong. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #308 January 6, 2009 Quotejust what I consider to be wrong. I, for one consider the killing of innocents as wrong. suprise, me too. believe it or not, no one in israel is happy to see innocent people getting hurt. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #309 January 6, 2009 I would hope that, in the main, that was true - People are pretty much the same the world over ... but there are always exceptions. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #310 January 6, 2009 QuoteQuoteThat's like saying that if the neighborhood kid is breaking your windows with a slingshot from his own yard across the street, that you shouldn't be allowed to walk across the street and confiscate his slingshot. When you're being attacked from afar with rockets, it's not "offense" to go after the rocket-launch sites on your enemy's land. That's defense. You hit the nail on the head, But shooting the kid with a shotgun wouldn't be the best way to deal with the situation and that is what Israel are doing. I disagree with your comparison. Now you've switched from apples to oranges. Vandalism with a slingshot indeed does NOT warrant the use of deadly force in response. However, when you switch to the topic of Hamas firing rockets at population centers, then that's deadly force to start with, and therefore deadly force IS a valid response in return. QuoteWhat is it with the military that they cannot use covert subtle operations to achieve their objective? The Jew-haters bitch about that too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #311 January 6, 2009 QuoteThe Israelis have also banned international journalists going into to Gaza um, what rights do they have over someone elses country? It's their border, they can do what they want with it, in or out. Gaza also shares a border with Egypt. Why don't the reporters do an end-run around Israel, and use the Egyptian border, over which Israel has no control? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #312 January 6, 2009 Quote The Gaza Strip on that satellite photo is as green as the rest of Israel. So if the Israelis manage to make a good living off that kind of land, why can't the Palestinians? A quick search came up with this article. It's almost a year old and things have certainly not improved. Could you make a living for your family if you were locked in your house with the influx of power, internet and groceries as well as the outflow of your waste and any marketable product dependent on the whim of a neighbor who dislikes you? I'm willing to bet that you might take any weapon that you have in your arsenal to try to rectify the situation. Still sifting through this LONG thread, and it's interesting to see the mixture of responses, some expected, some surprising. The whole situation is depressing, especially since we will do nothing to help work towards a solution until after the 20th. Hopefully the 21st will bring some positive input. I'm sure it will be better than the last 8 years, I just don't know by how much. Talk about the audacity of hope! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #313 January 6, 2009 QuoteA quick search came up with this article. It's almost a year old and things have certainly not improved. Could you make a living for your family if you were locked in your house with the influx of power, internet and groceries as well as the outflow of your waste and any marketable product dependent on the whim of a neighbor who dislikes you? I'm willing to bet that you might take any weapon that you have in your arsenal to try to rectify the situation. Hey when you stop trying to kick the neighbor in the nads every time you see him.... you might get more cordial relations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #314 January 6, 2009 Quote Hey when you stop trying to kick the neighbor in the nads every time you see him.... you might get more cordial relations. Did you read the article? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #315 January 6, 2009 Do you have anything other than knee jerk hatred for the Jews??? Personaly.. I would love to see peace break out and two people with similar backgrounds going back to a common ancestral heritage to live together.. but if someone keeps trying to kill me.. I am not predisposed to doing anything but fucking killing him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #316 January 6, 2009 QuoteNot only shooting the kid with a shotgun, but anyone else standing near by too. so long as we're extending these shitty analogies, maybe it's stupid to stand right next to the kid who is causing trouble. Observers might think you're aligned with the punk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #317 January 6, 2009 QuoteThe whole situation is depressing, especially since we will do nothing to help work towards a solution until after the 20th. Hopefully the 21st will bring some positive input. I'm sure it will be better than the last 8 years, I just don't know by how much. Talk about the audacity of hope! More like the audacity of hype. Obama is keeping his mouth shut on this issue - afraid to take a stand one way or the other. After the 20th, he's going to have to come out of the closet and quit being a scaredy-cat. His timidness does not bode well for his decisiveness as a president. But it's typical of his previous politics - he plays both sides of the fence, and doesn't take decisive stands. In the past Obama has made statements completely supporting Israel - just like Bush. So if you think he's going to be different somehow, then you haven't paid close enough attention to him. And to believe that somehow the magic negro is going to be able to solve the Israeli/Palestinian crises, where all others have failed, just shows how unrealistic your expectations are. Obama is not even in office yet, and already he's getting embroiled in controversy, over cabinet picks and relationships with other questionable people. Just wait until the media honeymoon is over and they actually start paying attention. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #318 January 6, 2009 QuoteDo you have anything other than knee jerk hatred for the Jews??? Have a nice day Jeanne. When you want to join the discussion with something astute or even remotely accurate, please do. Just please, no more michelle malkin referenced material. What's next, Limbaugh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #319 January 6, 2009 QuoteQuoteWe're not fighting someone by proxy here. We're supporting a democratic ally Yea because in all democracies we have Jews only roads, and segregation. You know some due process would be nice as well. Right. And in the Arab version of Israel, you'll have the Palestinian only road as currently exists, and then you'll have the Jew road - a long drive off a short pier. Like all the other democracies in the Arab world....oh wait a second... Quote Sorry just came back and read this thread. And some of the things said are just out of the realm of reality. just precious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #320 January 6, 2009 Quote Personaly.. I would love to see peace break out and two people with similar backgrounds going back to a common ancestral heritage to live together.. but if someone keeps trying to kill me.. I am not predisposed to doing anything but fucking killing him. Spoken like participants on both sides of this conflict. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #321 January 6, 2009 Quote Obama is keeping his mouth shut on this issue - afraid to take a stand one way or the other. Tip: He's not the President yet. Quote And to believe that somehow the magic negro is going to be able to solve the Israeli/Palestinian crises, where all others have failed, just shows how unrealistic your expectations are. I'm only asking #44 to try, which would be in stark contrast to #43. Read that article yet? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #322 January 6, 2009 OK, question for Darius: Prior to Israel's retaliation, why exactly was Hamas firing rockets into Israel in December? Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #323 January 6, 2009 Quote Obama is keeping his mouth shut on this issue - afraid to take a stand one way or the other. After the 20th, he's going to have to come out of the closet and quit being a scaredy-cat. His timidness does not bode well for his decisiveness as a president. He's not yet president and it's a bit inappropriate for him to speak on behalf of the US before the 20th. He certainly can't back up his words with any actions before then either. Quote And to believe that somehow the magic negro is going to be able to solve the Israeli/Palestinian crises, where all others have failed, just shows how unrealistic your expectations are. So much for notions that the GOP isn't full of raging bigots. idrinkwhat didn't say he expected Obama to solve the problem - he just expressed hopes for better foreign policy than we've seen of late. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #324 January 6, 2009 QuoteQuoteObama is keeping his mouth shut on this issue - afraid to take a stand one way or the other. Tip: He's not the President yet. Hint: it hasn't kept him from trying to influence numerous other things already in the works, like the economic stimulus package. So why is he keeping mum on this particular issue? If he had some bright idea to end the conflict, he could telegraph it now for the upcoming future in just 15-days, to start quieting things down. Wouldn't that be the responsible thing to do? Ah, but he doesn't. So the reason he's keeping silent, is that he really doesn't have any magic solution, and he's just a chicken who doesn't want to get involved. Well, it's time for him to grow up. In two weeks he won't have the option of running away and hiding in the closet any more like a little child. He better start behaving like a president now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #325 January 6, 2009 QuoteSpoken like participants on both sides of this conflict. Hmm lets see.. Arabs who fought on the side of Israel.. when they were becomign a nation... YUP Jews who fought on the side of the ARabs trying to exterminate the new state of Israel....NOPE Arabs who live peace in Israel... LOTS Jews who live in Arab countries???? VERY FEW... they purged them long ago for the most part. Yeah.. lots of balance there Bub. ou may want to go read a little about the historical context of WHO the Arabs supported in WWII for a hint or two. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
