Cosmic Fingerprints

[dmkellett 0]

I have heard this one many times before : BIG BANG = EVOLUTION...

The 2 processes are completely different. One is a cosmological event, the other is a biological process. why do creationists believe that they are the same thing?

Whats wrong with Panspermia? It seems a far more likely explanation of the origin of life here on Earth than some bearded old dude waving a wand...

And how arrogant of us to think that the whole universe was made FOR US by a GOD that we never see and has never shown us an ounce of evidence of his existence?

[jakee 1,594]

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Evolution doesn't have a purpose, it just happens.

The products of evolution have reason and purpose as seen everywhere in the world around us.

Some of them have reason. So?

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Did that value just spontaneously occur some where along the line?

Not all at once. It took quite a long time.

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Purpose = Intelligence

What a load of codswallop.

Surely you can do better than that.

What more needs to be said?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,594]

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Evolution proceeds in a predictable direction.

Then please, predict it!

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Otherwise all you would get would be a system with increasing entropy.

There is no reason that earth's ecosystem must have increasing entropy.

(A friendly tip, people who use the 2nd law of thermo against evolution never understand the 2nd law of thermo)

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,594]

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Evolution proceeds in a predictable manner

As I understand evolution, at the beginning of time there was nothing and then there was the big bang. First nothing and then everything. What was the cause to get an effect? How do you get something from nothing? This seems neither predictable or logical.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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at the beginning of time

Those few words mean a lot.
The concept of time is an illusion. Time is not constant, therefore it is possible or even probable that there was no "time" until after the big bang. If there was no "time" then there would be no "before".
In any case, we're pretty sure the universe did not come from nothing, that there was something. Just what that something is we are not yet quite sure. But there are people much better educated in the subject working on that as we speak.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[kallend 2,146]

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-- What a load of codswallop.

Surely you can do better than that.


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[maadmax 0]

---I'm afraid this shows a complete misunderstanding of the theory. There is no Purposeful manipulation of forces. There is only random recombination, some of which will provide an advantage to the organism..... in it's current environment, which will allow a greater than average chance of breeding, and therefore the genetic change becoming more prevelant in the population.

[maadmax 0]

---Evolution proceeds in a predictable manner as long as the environment present and future is known. We can no more predict what evolutionary changes will occur during the next one million years than we can predict what the environment will be like

[maadmax 0]

Evolution proceeds in a predictable direction.

Then please, predict it!

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Easy, it selects for the fittest, who leave more offspring.

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[Belgian_Draft 0]

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---Evolution proceeds in a predictable manner as long as the environment present and future is known. We can no more predict what evolutionary changes will occur during the next one million years than we can predict what the environment will be like

You need to enlarge your picture. The forces of evolution work to select for the fittest, which leave more offspring. That is exactly what I said. that is evolution in a nutshell.This is a predictable outcome of evolution. Like I said, it is as predictable as the environment. A species will evolve and adapt differently to an increasingly cold environment than it will to one that gets warmer.

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-- The idea that there is some kind of manipulation behind it is absurd. Forces combine to produce lightning, which has a predictable and specialized outcome, yet I doubt many people today would seriously consider there to be any "purposeful manipulation" behind it.

[jakee 1,594]

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Evolution proceeds in a predictable direction.

Then please, predict it!

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Easy, it selects for the fittest, who leave more offspring.

What a stunningly original piece of thinking. I see now what a fool I was in thinking that the increased probability of survival and reproduction of better adapted organisms could be evidence of anything but a governing intelligence which decreed that better adapted organisms should survive!

You said that evolution had a goal oriented purpose. What is it?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Evolution proceeds in a predictable direction.

Then please, predict it!

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Easy, it selects for the fittest, who leave more offspring.

That is a definition of evolution. A very simple one at that.
But it is not in any way a prediction.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

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[deibido 0]

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It says in the Bible that God made us uniquely different from the rest of His creation. He created our spirits out of nothing, He created our bodies with materials already present on the planet. What makes us unique is our spirit. It is what makes us capable of perceiving the Spirit of God.

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It says in the Sumerian story of Enki and Ninmah that one of the senior gods, Enki, designed humans as a slave race to do manual labor for the gods, so that they could have an easier life.

What made us unique was servitude and forced toil.

"User assumes all risk"

[maadmax 0]

You said that evolution had a goal oriented purpose. What is it?

[maadmax 0]

--It says in the Sumerian story of Enki and Ninmah that one of the senior gods, Enki, designed humans as a slave race to do manual labor for the gods, so that they could have an easier life.

What made us unique was servitude and forced toil.

[maadmax 0]

That is a definition of evolution. A very simple one at that.
But it is not in any way a prediction.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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That is a definition of evolution. A very simple one at that.
But it is not in any way a prediction.

I don't know what terms would better suit you, but evolution does not favor the weak and infertile. Predicting that the strong and fertile will come out on top is a pretty good bet.

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[maadmax 0]

Ok, so you have learned something. You have learned that those most capable of reproducing (which itself requires survival) will pass their advantagous traits onto succeeding generations.
But you haven't made a prediction yet. reciting how evolution works is not a prediction anymore than explaining how a car moves is a prediction of where it will travel.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Well, there is no purpose. Things happen all the time with no purpose. I almost laid my bike down today on the highway. There was no purpose to that. There WAS a purpose to my corrective actions that somehow kept it upright, though.
In fact, the vast majority of things that take place have no purpose. They just happen. Evolution is one of them.
If there were some all-knowing creator watching over everything then we wouldn't need concern ourselves about the fate of polar bears with global warming, now would we? I mean, if He could create all of the entire universe, suely He could make the bears evolve and adapt to their changing climate.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[dmkellett 0]

Why does there need to ba a purpose to the universe? what is more likely :

1. that the entire universe has been magically zapped into existence by a old bearded white man, just for us, here on a tiny speck of a planet in the middle of nowhere, after which he shows us no evidence whatsoever of his existence but we all must follow his words or risk an eternity of heat and torture...

or

2. there is no predetermined purpose, we are just a clever monkey, with an uncanny ability to lie to both ourselves and others around us, make up bizarre and stupid beiefs and then kill each other over them?

anyone older then 5 should be able to see which is the most likely, if it were not for our ability to also brainwash our offspring with this virus of the mind we call belief. It is just like any other disease, spreading through the population of weak minded persons who are not strong enough to believe in THEMSELVES!

I suggest people go watch Bill Maher's Religuluos film, Quote " we need to grow up or die "

[maadmax 0]

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Why does there need to ba a purpose to the universe? what is more likely :

1. that the entire universe has been magically zapped into existence by a old bearded white man, just for us, here on a tiny speck of a planet in the middle of nowhere, after which he shows us no evidence whatsoever of his existence but we all must follow his words or risk an eternity of heat and torture...

I think it is most likely that you have a distorted view of God. I believe that reality will be stranger than any of us can imagine. I believe we need to take an active role in discerning it, both on a physical and metaphysical level. Saying God doesn't exist is as much of a cop out as saying physics doesn't exist. 10,000 years ago we didn't have proof of either, but they still existed.


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[DannHuff 0]

Now, we don't know yet why the big bang happened,

[wildWilly 0]

Saying God doesn't exist is as much of a cop out as saying physics doesn't exist. 10,000 years ago we didn't have proof of either, but they still existed.


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[vortexring 0]

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"Going back to the subject matter, what I found interesting about the site wasn't so much 'evidence' of God, but more an intelligent discussion involving evolution, Big Bang theories, and of course; God.

I just can't see someone arguing against evolution and considering it an intelligent conversation.

Well, as things stand, atheists must have faith the size of a mountain to believe life arose without an intelligent designer.

Despite expensive equipment and the promise of the most famous Nobel Prize in history, no scientist has reproduced the spontaneous generation of life in the lab.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[dmkellett 0]

Well, as things stand, atheists must have faith the size of a mountain to believe life arose without an intelligent designer.

Despite expensive equipment and the promise of the most famous Nobel Prize in history, no scientist has reproduced the spontaneous generation of life in the lab.