Bush cant even get his pardons right

[akarunway 1]

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Florida was the deciding state? What happened to the other 49? Florida wasn't the only state with a close vote, it was just the one that Gore thought he had the best chance of getting a recount in his favor. But, as it turned out, no matter how many times they counted the votes, he still lost.

Yes, it is interesting. But that is the way our system works. And I agree that it subtracts from the value of some citizens votes. This last election ended up being the large population centers that are both coasts deciding the future of a country locked between them. We'll have to wait and see how that works out.

Better study up. Between a certain Ms Harris an Jeb boy and the SCOTUS stopping the recount is how Bush STOLE the election from THE PEOPLE. God I sure as hope Jeb stats in Texas.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[dgskydive 0]

This is normal????

Obstruction of Voters
In Tallahassee, hundreds of registered black voters were turned away because, despite carrying valid voter registration cards, they did not appear on the voter registration rolls at the precincts. Hundreds more were harassed and stopped by Highway Patrol officers who set up inspection road blocks near polling places in black voting precincts. The Highway Patrol acknowledges this occurred, but say that it was a random placement of routine vehicle inspections which just happened to be near black polling places on election day ... just a coincidence in Jeb Bush's state? The number of formal complaints filed is in the hundreds ... and this is likely just a fractional tip of the iceberg compared to the thousands who were harassed and intimidated but didn't want to go through the hassle of filing formal claims. We've all heard of "Driving While Black" and racial profiling, but Jeb Bush and his jack-booted Florida thugs bring us the new crime of "Voting While Black." And they wonder why 92% of the blacks didn't want to vote for someone named "Bush."

Since the election, the extent of this voter obstruction has become even more clear. The Los Angeles Times (5-21-01), including previous reports in The Nation and their own investigation, reports that many voters had their names removed from the voter rolls before the election in an effort to remove "convicted felons" and deceased voters from the rolls, even though thousands of those deleted had never been convicted of anything, were very much alive, and had registered properly. While it cannot be known who any individual voter would have voted for, a large, disproportionate number of those removed from the rolls were African Americans, from a population known to be voting in large numbers for Democrats in a state where the chief election officers, Governor Jeb Bush and Secretary of State Katherine Harris, had pledged to deliver the election for "Dubya."

One such voter, Sandylynn Williams, age 34, a Black Tampa resident and Gore supporter, had voted in every election since she was 18. She had recently passed a government background check for her job with a military contractor. She was not a felon, but was not allowed to vote in the November presidential election because her name appeared on an erroneous list of "felons." Election officials restored her right to vote just ten days after the election, with an apology. The timing of this maneuver, the targeting of Black voters, and its effect in preventing thousands of Gore votes in a close election offer conclusive evidence of an election stolen by election authorities committed to delivering their state to Dubya, by hook ... or by CROOK.

Illegal Ballots and Voting Procedures
An ILLEGAL ballot in Palm Beach County resulted in an extraordinarily high number of mis-votes. Yes, it was designed by a Democrat. But whether Theresa LePore was a well-meaning bumbler or a traitorous turncoat, it doesn't matter: the ballot was ILLEGAL and she had no right to disenfranchise 33,000 Gore voters (19,000 with double-punches, 11,000 "blanks" that the machine could not read and 3,000+ that were erroneously voted for Buchanan, as Buchanan himself -- no ally of Gore -- admitted. Statistical analysis absolutely confirms this level of misdirection in voting: for example, the number of "under votes" (ballots the machine couldn't read) were EIGHT TIMES higher than in counties that did not use punch cards. Further, the ballot machines had not been cleaned in EIGHT YEARS, causing chad build up that made it difficult or impossible to punch all the way through -- even for young, strong, healthy voters, much less the many Senior Citizens and Holocaust survivors who have been cruelly ridiculed by insensitive "compassionate" Republicans for something they had absolutely no control over.

And yes, once again it can be noted (as the Republicans keep reminding us) that the illegal Palm Beach ballot was designed by a Democrat. However, up until 1996 Theresa LePore had always been registered as a Republican. After the 2000 election she quit the Democrats and re-registered as an independent. She was only a "Democrat" through the one election cycle in which she designed the illegal ballot that made the difference. Pretty convenient, huh? (Orlando Sun-Sentinel, 5-9-01.)

Absentee Ballot Irregularities
Republicans have tried to disseminate a very dishonest myth: that Gore and the Democrats tried to block overseas military absentee ballots that were expected to go strongly Republican. Despite this expectation (which proved to be correct), Gore and the Democrats did NOT try to block those votes from being counted and, in fact, actively campaigned for full inclusion. Gore and Liebermann both spoke out in favor of including all such ballots, even if it required flexibility with official Florida voting regulations (after all Gore is the one who is actually a Vietnam veteran). Furthermore, the Florida state Attorney General, Bob Butterworth, a Gore elector and co-chair of the Gore campaign, issued an OFFICIAL Attorney General opinion stating that all such ballots should and could be officially included. However, the final decision was left with individual county canvassing boards and many of them who were Republicans did not include such ballots because they did not want to establish a precedent of including additional vote counts or allowing any flexibility in determining voter intent. Still, it is Gore and the Democrats who get tagged unfairly with the charge of blocking military votes that were actually obstructed by Republicans.

In Seminole and Martin Counties, Republican partisans were granted preferential access that was NOT equally offered to Democratic officials, to complete missing information from absentee ballot applications. The same Republicans who whine that senior citizens should get no consideration whatsoever in having their intended votes count if they can't follow every single little rule (even if it is an illegal ballot and chad buildup they have no control over), now holler about "technicalities" when it is pointed out that Florida law is explicit that only the voter or an immediate family member can complete certain pieces of information. In Seminole County, AFTER the improper applications had been rejected, unauthorized outsiders from a specific political party were invited to come and complete the applications, and were provided illegal unsupervised access. In Martin County, Republican partisans were actually allowed to take the applications off premises! These are hardly "technicalities." More importantly, the fact that the Democratic party was given no equivalent invitation, and hundreds of incomplete Democrat applications were simply tossed in the trash, means that this is a clear violation of equal protection of the laws. The only recourse, under Florida law (and which was done in the 1997 Miami mayor's race) is to void all absentee ballots (since after the votes have been processed it is no longer possible to separate the tampered applications from the valid ones. Yes, it is a drastic remedy (but, again, one that has been used before). But if the Republicans aren't smart enough to fill out their applications correctly, then do we really want them voting for President?

Dom

[dgskydive 0]

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God I sure as hope Jeb stats in Texas.

They got smart and voted him out a few years back.

Dom

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Florida was the deciding state? What happened to the other 49? Florida wasn't the only state with a close vote, it was just the one that Gore thought he had the best chance of getting a recount in his favor. But, as it turned out, no matter how many times they counted the votes, he still lost.

Yes, it is interesting. But that is the way our system works. And I agree that it subtracts from the value of some citizens votes. This last election ended up being the large population centers that are both coasts deciding the future of a country locked between them. We'll have to wait and see how that works out.

Better study up. Between a certain Ms Harris an Jeb boy and the SCOTUS stopping the recount is how Bush STOLE the election from THE PEOPLE. God I sure as hope Jeb stats in Texas.

yep. Harris and jeb ran around the state forcing people to not vote, vote for someone they didn't want to, make ballots disappear, etc.
SCOTUS stepped in because Gore was making a mockery of the election process. Every time he got his recount, it was only the counties he wanted counted... the ones where his support was greatest. Even then, the gap between heim and Bush kept getting wider and wider.
The election was decided according to the constitution. If you don't like that, then change the constitution. Eight years should be long enough for you to get over the sore loser syndrome.
Nobody stole anything.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Yes, that is normal. It happens every election in almost every state.
Wanna get rich quick? Come up with a tamper proof voting system that can be operated by infants. It seems no matter how simple voting is made, people find a way to screw it up.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[akarunway 1]

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Florida was the deciding state? What happened to the other 49? Florida wasn't the only state with a close vote, it was just the one that Gore thought he had the best chance of getting a recount in his favor. But, as it turned out, no matter how many times they counted the votes, he still lost.

Yes, it is interesting. But that is the way our system works. And I agree that it subtracts from the value of some citizens votes. This last election ended up being the large population centers that are both coasts deciding the future of a country locked between them. We'll have to wait and see how that works out.

Better study up. Between a certain Ms Harris an Jeb boy and the SCOTUS stopping the recount is how Bush STOLE the election from THE PEOPLE. God I sure as hope Jeb stats in Texas.

yep. Harris and jeb ran around the state forcing people to not vote, vote for someone they didn't want to, make ballots disappear, etc.
SCOTUS stepped in because Gore was making a mockery of the election process. Every time he got his recount, it was only the counties he wanted counted... the ones where his support was greatest. Even then, the gap between heim and Bush kept getting wider and wider.
The election was decided according to the constitution. If you don't like that, then change the constitution. Eight years should be long enough for you to get over the sore loser syndrome.
Nobody stole anything.

Fuck dude. I can dig up so much bullshit it isn't funny. Ya know how many times Jeb denied all kinda crap. And here is the SCOTUS ruling. http://archives.cnn.com/2000/LAW/12/13/scotus.election.05/ More crap. And man Harris, Mr. Martinez and a few others were handsomly rewarded for their lies and deciet. You are another SHEEP. I'm done here. That is my home state and I followed everybit of the theft of the election. Go OBAMA.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Florida was the deciding state? What happened to the other 49? Florida wasn't the only state with a close vote, it was just the one that Gore thought he had the best chance of getting a recount in his favor. But, as it turned out, no matter how many times they counted the votes, he still lost.

Yes, it is interesting. But that is the way our system works. And I agree that it subtracts from the value of some citizens votes. This last election ended up being the large population centers that are both coasts deciding the future of a country locked between them. We'll have to wait and see how that works out.

Better study up. Between a certain Ms Harris an Jeb boy and the SCOTUS stopping the recount is how Bush STOLE the election from THE PEOPLE. God I sure as hope Jeb stats in Texas.

yep. Harris and jeb ran around the state forcing people to not vote, vote for someone they didn't want to, make ballots disappear, etc.
SCOTUS stepped in because Gore was making a mockery of the election process. Every time he got his recount, it was only the counties he wanted counted... the ones where his support was greatest. Even then, the gap between heim and Bush kept getting wider and wider.
The election was decided according to the constitution. If you don't like that, then change the constitution. Eight years should be long enough for you to get over the sore loser syndrome.
Nobody stole anything.

Fuck dude. I can dig up so much bullshit it isn't funny. Ya know how many times Jeb denied all kinda crap. And here is the SCOTUS ruling. http://archives.cnn.com/2000/LAW/12/13/scotus.election.05/ More crap. And man Harris, Mr. Martinez and a few others were handsomly rewarded for their lies and deciet. You are another SHEEP. I'm done here. That is my home state and I followed everybit of the theft of the election. Go OBAMA.

Your home state is FLA? Then you should know more about what went on then you do.
The only sheep are those followers of Al Gore.
So, tell me, which sore loser number were you?
The only thing better than seeing Gore and Kerry lose is watching their deciples whine and cry "foul".

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[SuFantasma 0]

We "the People" need to repel this imperialistic provision of the Constitution...

Y yo, pa' vivir con miedo, prefiero morir sonriendo, con el recuerdo vivo".
- Ruben Blades, "Adan Garcia"

[dgskydive 0]

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So, tell me, which sore loser number were you?
The only thing better than seeing Gore and Kerry lose is watching their deciples whine and cry "foul".

It isnt about being a sore loser. It is about admitting that this president has been a disaster for not only the US, but the entire world. How you or anyone intelligent person can sit there and defend him is beyond me.

There is a reason the 75% of Americans are GLAD that he is finally out of office. There is a reason that he has the lowest approval ratings of any president ever. Wake up, smell the coffee.

Dom

[dgskydive 0]

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Yes, that is normal. It happens every election in almost every state.

Did you actually read what I posted? You show me one other example, in recent history at least, where the state police set up check points in specific areas where black democrats go to vote and keep them from the polls using the excuse of checking vehicle registration and such.

I do agree that there is fraud in the registration process. That has been made very obvious this past election with the Acorn incident this year, but there is a lot in just the little bit that I posted that is
NOT normal.

[dgskydive 0]

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We "the People" need to repel this imperialistic provision of the Constitution...

I agree.

I hope this election is a step in that direction. I do not thing that Obama is going to fix every problem that this country has though, but at least it shows that the people are finally getting past some of our ugly history and are ready for something different.

Dom

[kelpdiver 2]

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Florida was the deciding state?

I will agree that obviously the other states had something to due with it....... but, since the final out come was 271- 266. I think it is fair to look at that state of florida results as very questionable. Funny how their system became all screwed up in 2000 with the Bush boys on the loose.

No, you can say that about every state where the results were essentially a dead heat.

Florida has been notoriously inept at running a clean election of late, but much of the problem exists everywhere, but is only exposed in a tight election.

Though the SCOTUS rubs many the wrong way, it didn't change the result. No recount under any method would have given Gore the win.

As for votes never cast, there is a lot to cry about here, but you can't determine elections based on expectations of what those votes would have been. I do believe we need a national election law prohibiting any 'cleanup' of voters rolls between the primary and general election in each state.

For those who are so disappointed in Bush's performance since, I hear you. But send a bit of that love to Gore for blowing one of the more winnable elections in a long time. It shouldn't have been this close.

[mnealtx 0]

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Funny how their system became all screwed up in 2000 with the Bush Gore boys on the loose.

Fixed that for you.

Maybe you should review the Florida election laws - you know, the ones that the Dems were saying should be disregarded? How about the targeted recounts in heavily Democratic counties, or the 'intent of the voter' counts that STILL couldn't give the election to Gore?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Andy9o8 2]

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I, for one, am looking forward to moving on after 16 years of self absorbed idiots for President.

By way of historical perspective, LBJ and Nixon, each of whom were incredibly self-absorbed, were replaced by Ford and Carter, each of whom were pretty decent, and arguably even humble, fellows - but neither of whom were re-elected. The rest (i.e., the following 28 years), as they say, is history.

In a democracy, people get the government they deserve. If The People want decency in government, it's up to Them to put it there, and it's up to Them to keep it there.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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So, tell me, which sore loser number were you?
The only thing better than seeing Gore and Kerry lose is watching their deciples whine and cry "foul".

It isnt about being a sore loser. It is about admitting that this president has been a disaster for not only the US, but the entire world. How you or anyone intelligent person can sit there and defend him is beyond me.

There is a reason the 75% of Americans are GLAD that he is finally out of office. There is a reason that he has the lowest approval ratings of any president ever. Wake up, smell the coffee.

I'm not defending Bush at all. merely the process he was elected by and, back to the OP, his decision to "un-pardon". I am among those who are glad he is leaving office, almost as happy as I was to see Clinton leave. On a scale of 0-5, 5 being best, I would rate each of them a 2.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Quote

Quote

I, for one, am looking forward to moving on after 16 years of self absorbed idiots for President.

By way of historical perspective, LBJ and Nixon, each of whom were incredibly self-absorbed, were replaced by Ford and Carter, each of whom were pretty decent, and arguably even humble, fellows - but neither of whom were re-elected. The rest (i.e., the following 28 years), as they say, is history.

In a democracy, people get the government they deserve. If The People want decency in government, it's up to Them to put it there, and it's up to Them to keep it there.

+1
Probably the most intelligent post in this thread.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[kallend 2,147]

Quote

Quote

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Florida was the deciding state?

I will agree that obviously the other states had something to due with it....... but, since the final out come was 271- 266. I think it is fair to look at that state of florida results as very questionable. Funny how their system became all screwed up in 2000 with the Bush boys on the loose.

No, you can say that about every state where the results were essentially a dead heat.

Florida has been notoriously inept at running a clean election of late, but much of the problem exists everywhere, but is only exposed in a tight election.

Though the SCOTUS rubs many the wrong way, it didn't change the result. No recount under any method would have given Gore the win.

.

A democratic method that eliminates the obsolete Electoral College and uses the expressed will of the people in the country as a whole would have given Gore the win.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,147]

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In a democracy, people get the government they deserve. If The People want decency in government, it's up to Them to put it there, and it's up to Them to keep it there.

The Electoral College system is NOT democracy.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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A democratic method that eliminates the obsolete Electoral College and uses the expressed will of the people in the country as a whole would have given Gore the win.

And would have spared the country from the Kennedy presidency in 1960. Just think what the world would look like if Nixon had bombed the hell out of Hanoi in 1962 or Kissenger was there to deal with the Bay of Pigs.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Florida was the deciding state?

I will agree that obviously the other states had something to due with it....... but, since the final out come was 271- 266. I think it is fair to look at that state of florida results as very questionable. Funny how their system became all screwed up in 2000 with the Bush boys on the loose.

No, you can say that about every state where the results were essentially a dead heat.

Florida has been notoriously inept at running a clean election of late, but much of the problem exists everywhere, but is only exposed in a tight election.

Though the SCOTUS rubs many the wrong way, it didn't change the result. No recount under any method would have given Gore the win.

.

A democratic method that eliminates the obsolete Electoral College and uses the expressed will of the people in the country as a whole would have given Gore the win.

Yes, but that is not how our system works. We have an electoral college, any they chose Bush.
Sore loser #4

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[kallend 2,147]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Florida was the deciding state?

I will agree that obviously the other states had something to due with it....... but, since the final out come was 271- 266. I think it is fair to look at that state of florida results as very questionable. Funny how their system became all screwed up in 2000 with the Bush boys on the loose.

No, you can say that about every state where the results were essentially a dead heat.

Florida has been notoriously inept at running a clean election of late, but much of the problem exists everywhere, but is only exposed in a tight election.

Though the SCOTUS rubs many the wrong way, it didn't change the result. No recount under any method would have given Gore the win.

.

A democratic method that eliminates the obsolete Electoral College and uses the expressed will of the people in the country as a whole would have given Gore the win.

Yes, but that is not how our system works. We have an electoral college, any they chose Bush.
Sore loser #4

Interesting signature, Mr. Sore Loser #4

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

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A democratic method that eliminates the obsolete Electoral College and uses the expressed will of the people in the country as a whole would have given Gore the win.

Constitutional comprehension fail.

The states elect the President, not the people. The various states could do it by a coin toss (assuming the individual state constitutions/laws allowed it) and it would be perfectly legal.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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A democratic method that eliminates the obsolete Electoral College and uses the expressed will of the people in the country as a whole would have given Gore the win.

Constitutional comprehension fail.

The states elect the President, not the people. The various states could do it by a coin toss (assuming the individual state constitutions/laws allowed it) and it would be perfectly legal.

True, but would that be democratic?

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Florida was the deciding state?

I will agree that obviously the other states had something to due with it....... but, since the final out come was 271- 266. I think it is fair to look at that state of florida results as very questionable. Funny how their system became all screwed up in 2000 with the Bush boys on the loose.

No, you can say that about every state where the results were essentially a dead heat.

Florida has been notoriously inept at running a clean election of late, but much of the problem exists everywhere, but is only exposed in a tight election.

Though the SCOTUS rubs many the wrong way, it didn't change the result. No recount under any method would have given Gore the win.

.

A democratic method that eliminates the obsolete Electoral College and uses the expressed will of the people in the country as a whole would have given Gore the win.

Yes, but that is not how our system works. We have an electoral college, any they chose Bush.
Sore loser #4

Interesting signature, Mr. Sore Loser #4

Interesting spin, Mr. Sore Loser #1. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3383385#3383385

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

A democratic method that eliminates the obsolete Electoral College and uses the expressed will of the people in the country as a whole would have given Gore the win.

Constitutional comprehension fail.

The states elect the President, not the people. The various states could do it by a coin toss (assuming the individual state constitutions/laws allowed it) and it would be perfectly legal.

True, but would that be democratic?

Quote

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

Nope, not seeing the word "democratic" in there - probably because the United States is a representative republic and not a democracy.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706