Oh Canada, I'm so sorry

[marks2065 0]

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They did have a choice - allow the companies to go bankrupt and capitalism to take its course.

The Canadian taxpayer just got screwed.

Capitalism taking its course led to the mess we are in. It also led to Madoff's scheme. And Enron. And Tyco. And Worldcom...

If you are going to lay the few messes at the feet of capitalism, then you also have to give it credit for the tremendous growth and standard of living increase seen in the last couple hundred years.

Every system has it's advantages and disadvantages. We're witnessing one of the occassional bubbles that are bound to happen when capital rules.

Bottom line is that most of the mess can be blamed on human greed.

Which, of course, is the prime driver of capitalism.

I disagree. There can be capitalism without greed, and there can be greed without capitalism. To say greed is the driver of capitalism is like saying burnt toast is the driver of having breakfast.

Not every capitalist is possessed by the kind of greed that causes the problems we see today; any more than every cook is so in a hurry that they burn the toast on the way to serving breakfast.

The driving force of capitalism is growth. Sometimes, in a hurry for growth, capitalists create bubbless. Sometimes in a hurry to get done, cooks serve up some real shit. It doesn't mean serving up shit is the primary driver to being a cook.

Well, I disagree with you. Hunger drives cooks like greed drives capitalists. In extreme cases, the greed drives them to criminal activities like Enron, Madoff, Tyco, Worldcom, or to "default credit swaps" which bring down the entire economy. We are in the worst recession in most people's memories thanks to GREED.

I don't think it was the greed that caused this mess but greed combined with criminal / moralless behavior. The government does have laws in place to deal with this, but like other cases, have failed to uphold these laws. The court system is to messed up these days to give the honest, hardworking American justice. To many people use the court system to gain something they don't deserve or push for more rights for the guilty.

We need to remove frivalous lawsuites from the courts and start holding criminals accountable for their actions. Alot of this mess is because the people running these companies have no fear of being held accountable for their actions. If every ceo new that if they ran a company into the ground they would lose everthing they have received they would be more likely to run a balanced company that is sustainable and profitable.

[billvon 3,119]

>Bill...I am curious as to what you define as 'an excessive desire for wealth'.

A desire for wealth above and beyond what you need and what you reasonably could need.

>Is selling something for market value demonstrating 'an excessive
>desire for wealth'?

If you are putting a lot of effort into doing so in order to make thirty million dollars for yourself - yes. If it means you sell your Wii on Ebay for market value - no.

> If you invent something that is revolutionary for other than monetary
> reasons (solving a problem, just pops into your head as a product of
> experience in a field, etc) and the invention is worth billions - and you
> take the first offer you get without 'trying' to get more - is that excessive
> desire for wealth?

If you sell it for a billion, and you could not reasonably need more than half a million for the rest of your life - yes. And again, there's nothing wrong with that; it's sort of how our system works.

A lot of people here seem to equate greed to evil. It's not. Used to defraud or harm others, it is indeed evil. But alone it is merely the desire for more than you need. And that is, and always will be, a driving force in many people. Basing an economy on that desire works.

[kallend 2,150]

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CEO's generally have a winner's mentality, they want to be the best and provide the best, the money is just an added bonus... again, for the vast majority.

That's funny - we've been told over and over by the right that CEOs must have huge compensation packages or they won't be motivated.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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CEO's generally have a winner's mentality, they want to be the best and provide the best, the money is just an added bonus... again, for the vast majority.

That's funny - we've been told over and over by the right that CEOs must have huge compensation packages or they won't be motivated.

No, we have been told that CEOs need huge compensation packages or they will go elsewhere.

[shropshire 0]

There are few somewheres to go these days... So they're as stuffed as the rest of us, in that respect.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[BDashe 0]

Again, it comes with the turf. You pay the most for the best. I've said this on here before- do you pay brett favre, john elway, jerry rice $1 salary to be on your team? No, you pay the best price for the best candidate. There are plenty of CEOs out there, however, with $1 salaries and all stock options- the company does well, tehy do well. That is how most of them make their money anyway, so whats wrong with that? Everybody wins. when these companies fail and the big boys get like 5 or 10 mil, that is chump change to what they could have made had it done well. Look at any major company that was acquired by a private equity that was purchased on the upswing- they make HUNDREDS of millions on those transactions, but so do the stockholders. I guarantee any of those guys would trade in there severance for a shot making a company successful rather than making a 40 year career and ending in failure. They want that feather in their cap, and the money is just a nice door prize.

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983