billvon 3,119
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Check this out: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Gdp-and-labour-force-by-sector.png
The poorest countries are, by occupation, mostly agriculture and some industry. The intermediate/developing countries are more industry and some service.
The richest countries are over 80% service, less than 20% industry.
Hmmmm. Maybe a high % of people in service industry isn't such a bad thing after all.
The poorest countries are, by occupation, mostly agriculture and some industry. The intermediate/developing countries are more industry and some service.
The richest countries are over 80% service, less than 20% industry.
Hmmmm. Maybe a high % of people in service industry isn't such a bad thing after all.
Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------
riddler 0
QuoteI think that this is a prime National Security issue for the US. Somewhere along the line we will have to come to grips that we need to maintain our ability to produce the people and the material to keep this country safe. Outsourcing our ability to protect this nation will just not work.
I don't agree that outsourcing manufacturing is a security issue. If 100% of our manufactured goods came from China, yes it would be an issue. But our outsourcing is diverse across many countries, and it would take a global coalition against the U.S. to shut down our income of manufactured goods.
Now, if you're worried about a scenario where it's the U.S. against everyone else, then you have a good point. But I don't think things will ever get to that point.
Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD
rushmc 23
Quote> But not when the govenment places all the environmental, safety and legal
>liablility on these companies at the level they do today.
Government puts exactly the same regulations on that Toyota plant. And Toyota isn't asking for a billion dollar bailout. Sounds like you need a new angle.
I only said it was ONE part of the equation. And this ONE part is the same for all
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
Quote
We will buy quality. We pefer quality. But value is just as important.
Support this claim. I don't see it. We don't pay for quality, nor for service. That's why big and cheap places like Walmart and Best Buy have replaced the specialty stores with salesmen that actually understand the product.
rushmc 23
QuoteQuote
We will buy quality. We pefer quality. But value is just as important.
Support this claim. I don't see it. We don't pay for quality, nor for service. That's why big and cheap places like Walmart and Best Buy have replaced the specialty stores with salesmen that actually understand the product.
the key word is value. Those big box stores offer value through a strong busines model.
And the judgement and statement is no more or less supjective than the one I reponded to.
So, you please support your disagreement position. You seem to think it is directly messurable
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
QuoteQuoteWhat would happen if the rest of us spent "a year without Made in USA?"
you'd not be able to skydive until you got a new rig.
And you'd not be seen on DZ until 2010.
There are rigs made outside the US and DZcom comes from Canadian servers regardless of who owns it. Of course unlike most of the people on here I am using a made in USA computer.
My point is the standard of living enjoyed by Americans is to a large degree dependent on international trade. Microsoft, Intel, Boeing, Caterpillar, the list goes on.
The number one mistake our leaders can make during economic downturns is to throttle world trade.
billvon 3,119
>I only said it was ONE part of the equation. And this ONE part is the same for all
I agree! Thus, Toyota has proven that we can get value and quality with good paying factory jobs - even with the present regulations.
I agree! Thus, Toyota has proven that we can get value and quality with good paying factory jobs - even with the present regulations.
skydyvr 0
QuoteNow, if you're worried about a scenario where it's the U.S. against everyone else, then you have a good point. But I don't think things will ever get to that point.
Bet you'll agree that GWB tried PRETTY fuckin' hard though.
. . =(_8^(1)
rushmc 23
Quote>I only said it was ONE part of the equation. And this ONE part is the same for all
I agree! Thus, Toyota has proven that we can get value and quality with good paying factory jobs - even with the present regulations.
I agree but, all manufactures could do even better without the gov on their backs.
It is a fact that there high milage diesel cars americans could and would buy if not for some of the stuid epa standards. There are also high milage non diesel cars americans could and would buy if not for gov mandated over the top safety standards. They are making these cars over seas today. And they are making money on them
I grant you that the US big three screwed themselves but the UAW was helping by running the srewdriver.....
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
Some of the arguments I hear on this forum seem to reflect the idea that the manufacturing of objects should be placed on some pedastal compared to other types of industry.
Yet how many on this thread are in the manufacturing industry?
I'll bet that the vast majority of you are in the information/engineering/service or science industries in one form or another.
And I'll bet many of you have years of experience and Bachelors & higher degrees to help you do what you do.
Do you really think it would be better for the economy if you quit your current job, with all your skills & expertise (in your non-manufacturing industry), and started sewing sportswear?
Yet how many on this thread are in the manufacturing industry?
I'll bet that the vast majority of you are in the information/engineering/service or science industries in one form or another.
And I'll bet many of you have years of experience and Bachelors & higher degrees to help you do what you do.
Do you really think it would be better for the economy if you quit your current job, with all your skills & expertise (in your non-manufacturing industry), and started sewing sportswear?
Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------
billvon 3,119
>I agree but, all manufactures could do even better without the gov on their backs.
Not in the case of cars. Take away government intervention (i.e. funding for roads, zoning/requirements for parking lots, defense of oil fields) and the car industry would eventually collapse. Likewise, if you took away environmental laws and followed the libertarian model of allowing people to sue directly for damages, the car companies (and the electric power industry) would not last long.
>It is a fact that there high milage diesel cars americans could and would buy
>if not for some of the stuid epa standards.
Right. And there are some completely unsafe cars that you can't buy because of stupid car safety requirements. And there are some ultra cheap workers you can't use because of stupid immigration laws.
But again, Toyota has to follow all those stupid rules and is doing far better than the Big Three - so it can be done.
>They are making these cars over seas today.
Yep. And they're available here. Not too popular, though, because of how expensive diesel is.
Not in the case of cars. Take away government intervention (i.e. funding for roads, zoning/requirements for parking lots, defense of oil fields) and the car industry would eventually collapse. Likewise, if you took away environmental laws and followed the libertarian model of allowing people to sue directly for damages, the car companies (and the electric power industry) would not last long.
>It is a fact that there high milage diesel cars americans could and would buy
>if not for some of the stuid epa standards.
Right. And there are some completely unsafe cars that you can't buy because of stupid car safety requirements. And there are some ultra cheap workers you can't use because of stupid immigration laws.
But again, Toyota has to follow all those stupid rules and is doing far better than the Big Three - so it can be done.
>They are making these cars over seas today.
Yep. And they're available here. Not too popular, though, because of how expensive diesel is.
QuoteI'll bet that the vast majority of you are in the information/engineering/service or science industries in one form or another.
As far as the thread title, "Industrial Base", all those are
industries too, and disappearing.
JPMorgan just outsourced 300 jobs from Tampa to Manila.
Well-educated employees with years of experience.
The original post specified manufacturing.
(what were the JP Morgan jobs?)
(what were the JP Morgan jobs?)
Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------
billvon 3,119
>Yet how many on this thread are in the manufacturing industry?
Oohhh! Me! Me! I actually get things rolling off PWB lines.
But I agree with your larger point - that jobs that add value are not necessarily jobs where stuff is built.
Oohhh! Me! Me! I actually get things rolling off PWB lines.
But I agree with your larger point - that jobs that add value are not necessarily jobs where stuff is built.
skydyvr 0
I manufacture a very fine product, and in demand too: Network Architecture Design. 
. . =(_8^(1)
QuoteThe original post specified manufacturing.
(what were the JP Morgan jobs?)
Most of the people at the site are involved in software
development and support. Three years ago, the local
call center group (500 jobs) left.
They are basically five large systems employers.
Verizon cut their US data systems employee base in Tampa by over half in the past few years.
I was working at another financial services place and my
contracting firm was bought out by an overseas outfit.
They immediately tried to outsource our whole project.
That company is subdividing to prepare for that type of plan.
JPM is international bankers. They are moving it as fast as
they can. Large campus environs in both Mumbai and Bangalore. Last year, they hired 500 new employees each
month during 2007.
Think you've got a problem with identity theft now?
Coreece 190
QuoteI manufacture a very fine product, and in demand too: Network Architecture Design.
Second Life programming?
http://secondlife.com/
Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...
QuoteI manufacture a very fine product, and in demand too: Network Architecture Design.
The problem that I run into in the software industry is that I
work for people who don't know the difference.
They are bean-counters who have no idea how to evaluate
anything except on price.
Conversations with a VP at Verizon:
"This is a lot cheaper."
"It isn't the same. You are not getting the same support.
They don't install upgrades and their people unqualified
and aren't trained."
"Still, it is a lot cheaper."
(Unfortunately, the outsource group never answers the phone
and can't seem to understand how to alter tables, so development had to stop.)
"This guy has a Masters from C- Univ."
"It is a company, not a University. I can call and get you
a Masters from them for $35 today."
"He'll work for $900 a month."
You can't reason with the ignorant and some refuse
to try to understand.
QuoteQuote
you'd not be able to skydive until you got a new rig.
And you'd not be seen on DZ until 2010.
There are rigs made outside the US and DZcom comes from Canadian servers regardless of who owns it. Of course unlike most of the people on here I am using a made in USA computer.
Mine is a made in my living room computer.
Yes, there are plenty of non american gear makers, but your rig is from Florida, no?
And the internet underpinings have a significant American presence, both in the past and present.
No. The OP said INDUSTRIAL not manufacture. Need a dictionary?QuoteThe original post specified manufacturing.
(what were the JP Morgan jobs?)
I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.
Quote
Mine is a made in my living room computer.
Yes, there are plenty of non american gear makers, but your rig is from Florida, no?
And the internet underpinings have a significant American presence, both in the past and present.
Yours is assembled in your living room, but where were the components manufactured?
You are correct that I would need to change rigs, but I am not the one arguing in favour of commercial isolationism. My point is that we all lose when we succumb to it.
kallend 2,150
QuoteThe original post specified manufacturing.
(what were the JP Morgan jobs?)
The value-added manufactured products involve considerable engineering, are science based, and cannot be made without "knowledge workers".
The shame is that the quick way to a fortune is shuffling other people's wealth around. The f***ers who made fortunes from credit default swaps and imploded the economy in the process didn't contribute to wealth.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
>liablility on these companies at the level they do today.
Government puts exactly the same regulations on that Toyota plant. And Toyota isn't asking for a billion dollar bailout. Sounds like you need a new angle.
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites