crwtom 0 #26 December 8, 2008 QuoteBush did not set any precedent. there is no precedent to the way the Iraq war was justified and started. Plain and simple. ******************************************************************* Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,558 #27 December 8, 2008 The closest I can come is the war in the movie "Wag the Dog," but the motivation is entirely different Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #28 December 8, 2008 Quote there is no precedent to the way the Iraq war was justified and started. Plain and simple. Yes There Is! Although it may be the first time a proper democracy has launched a war of aggression. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #29 December 8, 2008 Mike, where is this Proper Democracy of which you speak? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #30 December 8, 2008 Quote Mike, where is this Proper Democracy of which you speak? Right here... America & Western Europe... Where we have reasonably free speech and reasonably fair elections. It's just that Iraq was the first time we have realised we'd been Goering'd""Why, of course, the people don't want war," Goering shrugged. "Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."" "There is one difference," [Gustave Gilbert] pointed out. "In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars." ""Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."" Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #31 December 8, 2008 QuoteQuoteBush did not set any precedent. there is no precedent to the way the Iraq war was justified and started. Plain and simple. Very little in politics or war is plain and simple. When combined, nothing is.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #32 December 8, 2008 Quote""Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."" As evidenced by the wonderful patriotic right wing posters right here in this forum... And their true mettle is shown by their lack of real support in most cases... if they are so adamant in support of war.. they need to go fight it themselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #33 December 8, 2008 I'm still waiting to see those lines around the block at the recruiters in lib-land, signing up for Afghanistan... *crickets*Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #34 December 8, 2008 I already did my two tours: Gardez and Lashkar Gah. Where were you stationed? - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #35 December 8, 2008 QuoteQuote"".... All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."" As evidenced by the wonderful patriotic right wing... if they are so adamant in support of war.. they need to go fight it themselves. I hasten to re-iterate that this is the first time the Americans REALISED they'd been Goering'd. It's reasonable to wonder how much examination the "Zimmerman Telegram" would bear. It finally tipped America into war in 1917, but the whole source and provenance was hardly unbiased... WHY would such a telegram be sent, given that the wire passed through enemy territory? Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #36 December 8, 2008 QuoteI already did my two tours: Gardez and Lashkar Gah. Where were you stationed? 84-88: USAF 89-97: Various stateside bases and Germany (military support) 97-01: Bosnia (military support) 01-03: Saudi Arabia (military support) 03-present: Kosovo (military support)Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #37 December 8, 2008 Great. Thanks for your service. Sincerely. Now can we all (actually, just a couple various posters) stop implying that conservatives and/or liberals have a better record of military service or support? Thanks again. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #38 December 8, 2008 QuoteGreat. Thanks for your service. Sincerely. Now can we all (actually, just a couple various posters) stop implying that conservatives and/or liberals have a better record of military service or support? Thanks again. And thank you for YOUR service. I've got no problems stopping - the problem is convincing them.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #39 December 8, 2008 Quote Mike, where is this Proper Democracy of which you speak? Some of us had been hoping Canada would invade us and restore democracy.I've long suspected Remster was really a forward scout."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,114 #40 December 8, 2008 Quote Quote Mike, where is this Proper Democracy of which you speak? Right here... America & Western Europe... Where we have reasonably free speech and reasonably fair elections. It's just that Iraq was the first time we have realised we'd been Goering'd""Why, of course, the people don't want war," Goering shrugged. "Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."" "There is one difference," [Gustave Gilbert] pointed out. "In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars." ""Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."" Mike. Some folks realized it BEFORE the invasion. Also...... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
