JohnRich 4 #1 December 5, 2008 News:Medicare to Cover Prescription Handguns? We recently reported about a new 9mm handgun that was designed for folks suffering from arthritis and other disabilities affecting the hands. Constitution Arms, the manufacturer of the firearm, is reporting that the FDA has formally designated the gun as a medical gadget. Constitution Arms contacted us with the following information:"We thought you might be interested to learn that the FDA has completed its “Device/Not a Device” determination and concluded the handgun will be listed as a Class I Medical Device... We have now submitted an application for a Coding Verification. Once assigned, physicians will be able to prescribe the Palm Pistol for qualified patients who may seek reimbursement through Medicare or private health insurance companies."Source: http://medgadget.com/archives/2008/12/medicare_to_cover_prescription_handguns.html Think of it as like a cane that is paid for by Medicaid to help the disabled walk. This device would help the disabled defend themselves against criminals. Now they need to create a semi-auto version with more than one shot. Let the gun-control frothing at the mouth begin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #2 December 5, 2008 QuoteLet the gun-control frothing at the mouth begin. So this is a blatant troll thread then? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #3 December 5, 2008 QuoteSo this is a blatant troll thread then? Not at all. A lot of genuine honest discussion can be had from this report. However, I also know full well how some people here react to such things. So, no trolling is intended, but frothing is quite expected. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #4 December 5, 2008 Quote News: Medicare to Cover Prescription Handguns? Source: http://medgadget.com/archives/2008/12/medicare_to_cover_prescription_handguns.html Think of it as like a cane that is paid for by Medicaid to help the disabled walk. This device would help the disabled defend themselves against criminals. ROFLMFAO !!!!!!!! Of all the thing which are arguable wrong with the US Medical Care System, This is the one that's been fixed. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #5 December 5, 2008 Quote Quote So this is a blatant troll thread then? However, I also know full well how some people here react to such things. For instance, a LOT of people are against bigger government and the abuse of "the system" for personal gain as well as socialized medicine in general. JR, by posting this, has firmly taken a stance FOR all of those. quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,648 #6 December 5, 2008 QuoteQuoteSo this is a blatant troll thread then? Not at all. A lot of genuine honest discussion can be had from this report. It's very interesting. QuoteThink of it as like a cane that is paid for by Medicaid to help the disabled walk. This device would help the disabled defend themselves against criminals. I don't believe this analogy holds. The healthy man does not need a device that helps him walk while the disabled man does; but if he wants to defend himself against criminals the healthy man would need a device* as does the disabled man. Why should the disabled get for free an optional device that the healthy have to pay for?** * So sayeth the CCW lobby. ** It's possible that there is already a long list of 'disabled version' devices that medicare already provides, and that providing this gun would not be abnormal. Anyone know?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverborg 0 #7 December 5, 2008 QuoteI don't believe this analogy holds. The healthy man does not need a device that helps him walk while the disabled man does; but if he wants to defend himself against criminals the healthy man would need a device* as does the disabled man. Why should the disabled get for free an optional device that the healthy have to pay for?** I was thinking the same thing, but didn't know how to put it. For the record I'm very pro-2nd ammendment, but this one just seems a little wierd to me. I wish my health insurance would buy me a 9mm. I've been trying to find a good deal on a glock 9mm for awhile, but since BO got elected, gun prices went thru the roof. Its amazing what the guys are getting for a glock 9mm at gun shows lately. Anyway, thats a whole other discussion and I didn't mean to get off topic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybill 22 #8 December 5, 2008 Hi JR, This is most cool, as the saying goes," Don't pick a fight with an old man, he will just kill you!!!" Now to get this coolie piece in semi-auto!!! Para-ord makes a nice 3" barrel "Carry-9" at 24 oz. nice only the MSRP is $979 although a local gun shop quoted me in the $750's. I'll let you know after the gun show tomorrow!!SCR-2034, SCS-680 III%, Deli-out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #9 December 5, 2008 Quote I've been trying to find a good deal on a glock 9mm for awhile, but since BO got elected, gun prices went thru the roof. Its amazing what the guys are getting for a glock 9mm at gun shows lately. What sort of numbers are we talking about? (interested to compare against the surge in prices in CA that happened years ago) And what are the (vastly superior!!!) Sigs selling for? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverborg 0 #10 December 5, 2008 QuoteWhat sort of numbers are we talking about? (interested to compare against the surge in prices in CA that happened years ago) And what are the (vastly superior!!!) Sigs selling for? I can only speak for the Glock as that's all that I've been watching. I'm not sure about the 19, but most of the outfitters around here are asking over $600 for the 17 right now. I haven't seen one at a gun show or pawn shop under $500, and some of them I've seen I wouldn't pay $200 for. Its not a huge hike, but its a little silly to pay that much when the retail value for a new glock 17 is only listed at around $541. I could order a new one for retail value, but I'm hoping to find a used one at a reasonable price. Edited to add.. The reason I know they hiked a good bit is because I've been looking for one since June, and my wife and I decided it could be my Christmas present so we waited, and now I can't find one in the price range they were only 6 months ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #11 December 5, 2008 QuoteIt's possible that there is already a long list of 'disabled version' devices that medicare already provides, and that providing this gun would not be abnormal. Anyone know? Good question. Background info: http://thecareguide.com/Resources/ResourceDetails.aspx?section=SeniorSafety&itemid=659 So there are assistive devices to help disabled people with other recreational and daily activities. Self-defense isn't something you need to do daily, but it's sure as heck important. So why not have a handgun designed for elderly arthritic hands? I think the real question is whether the government should subsidize it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #12 December 5, 2008 Quote Quote Quote So this is a blatant troll thread then? However, I also know full well how some people here react to such things. For instance, a LOT of people are against bigger government and the abuse of "the system" for personal gain as well as socialized medicine in general. JR, by posting this, has firmly taken a stance FOR all of those. Of course, and lefties that are pro-gun will automatically assume the government should provide free guns to anyone not in the uber rich class - which your guy Obama will be classifying as anyone making less the $20/year before taxes. Anyone making over $20,000.01/year will paying for the 'free' guns with their 90% income tax rate. this IS fun ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #13 December 5, 2008 Quote this IS fun Actually, I think "pretty much" everyone so far involved in the thread just sees the entire thing as silly. Really, as a self defense weapon does this "pistol" actually make any sense whatsoever? Single shot and probably requires body contact with the assailant to actually ensure that single hit. Seems to me that in the senior/disabled market it would more likely be used as a suicide device. Messy, but effective. I doubt it would be prescribed for that though but prescribed medicines are used "off prescription" every day.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #14 December 5, 2008 best part of the web site is "Optional Picatinny rail for accessorizing" on a single shot plam gun? (shaking head slowly) When MI went to shall issue CPL a legally blind man applied. In a wheel chair IIRC. The gun board eventually turned him down after a couple of hearings. Wanted to be able to defend himself essentially with muzzle against attacker. Gun board was sympathetic but couldn't quite bring themselves to do it. He was legit and I might have approved it.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #15 December 6, 2008 QuoteWhat sort of numbers are we talking about? Not having a problem finding guns at large retail outlets, but many smaller dealers cannot even find a gun to sell. My buddy and I looked at about 10 distributors today and found not one Glock for sale. I have been looking for a G23 for about 3 weeks and all of the distributors have been out. Several gun prices have gone through the roof. I have seen some AR15's that sold at 800-900 now being sold for 1200-1300."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #16 December 6, 2008 QuoteActually, I think "pretty much" everyone so far involved in the thread just sees the entire thing as silly. Yes, but not as silly as some other issues. QuoteReally, as a self defense weapon does this "pistol" actually make any sense whatsoever? Single shot and probably requires body contact with the assailant to actually ensure that single hit. It is still better than a no shot weapon don't ya think? And if a criminal does not have a weapon, they have to get into the range of such a device to do harm. Now, I don't know the effective range of this weapon, but I know I can draw and hip fire a weapon and hit a chest sized target from 2 meters 90% of the time. So even if this weapon only has an effective range of 1m or less, and only has one round. It is still better than a senior/disabled having to go hand to hand with an attacker IMO. QuoteSeems to me that in the senior/disabled market it would more likely be used as a suicide device. And so have pain killers as you stated. But that does not mean people with disabilities have no right to a form of self defense...Lets face it, senior/disabled people are much more likely to be targeted than you or I for a mugging."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #17 December 6, 2008 QuoteIt is still better than a no shot weapon don't ya think? Debatable. It just might give them a false sense of security like a noobie with a Cypres that blows through the hard deck thinking the device makes them invincible.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #18 December 6, 2008 QuoteDebatable. It just might give them a false sense of security like a noobie with a Cypres that blows through the hard deck thinking the device makes them invincible. True, but you would still recommend the noobie get a CYPRES right?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #19 December 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteDebatable. It just might give them a false sense of security like a noobie with a Cypres that blows through the hard deck thinking the device makes them invincible. True, but you would still recommend the noobie get a CYPRES right? The way the two devices interact with the user and have the possibility of saving a life are pretty different. One is a passive, yet intelligent, device that can ONLY effect the person using it. The device is designed to work even if the user is unconscious and in fact that is its best use. The other device still requires active involvement from the user hopefully with full mental capabilities. Both are "single shot" devices and only have one chance of working properly in an emergency. In the case of the Cypres, death of the user is nearly guaranteed if the user is incapacitated and the device fails. Essentially there is no down side to the operation of the Cypres in this scenario. If it doesn't work, you're probably no worse off than if it had. In the case of this particular single shot palm pistol (there have been others) if the weapon doesn't stop the assailant the user might be far worse off than if the user didn't have the device to begin with. The single shot and very close range required for this device to work makes it, in my mind more trouble than it's worth. Bottom line, if you need self defense, get something better than this thing. I see a lot of possible misuse of this gun. I'm actually amazed this got its first approval. I thought one of the requirements of a pistol was that it be recognizable as such. While gun enthusiasts might be able to figure it out, I think most people when seeing this will think it -is- some sort of medical device. It sure as hell looks a lot more like an inhaler than a gun to me.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,173 #20 December 6, 2008 Cool! I'll be applying for my brand new government financed Safire2 next. Will help my sore neck when I'm doing video. What else can I get? When my knees start to give out, I'll be able to get an Optibike, which is a pretty good electric bike. They're running around $8000 now, but by the time I can't use a regular bike without my knee hurting they should be down to $4000 or so. Good on you for being OK with paying more in taxes for such things! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #21 December 7, 2008 QuoteThe way the two devices interact with the user and have the possibility of saving a life are pretty different. Yes, but that does not make one OK and the other not. QuoteIn the case of this particular single shot palm pistol (there have been others) if the weapon doesn't stop the assailant the user might be far worse off than if the user didn't have the device to begin with. I disagree, an attacker with a slug in him might just end the whole situation or it might disable him enough to allow an escape. It might make the attacker think that the person will fire again and try to get away. Since the only real reason to pull a gun is to protect your life....I don't see how pulling a single shot weapon out is likely to make the situation worse....Maybe you could explain how the user could be worse off? I mean if you are afraid the guy is going to hurt/kill you...When would it be better to not have any defense ability? QuoteBottom line, if you need self defense, get something better than this thing. The point is this is for people who CAN'T use something else due to a disability. That would be like telling a person in a wheelchair that a ramp is not as good as stairs, so they should just get up and walk up the stairs. QuoteI see a lot of possible misuse of this gun. That is not really the issue. As you said, there are MUCH better weapons than this for both offense and defensive positions. This is for those who CAN'T use the better methods. QuoteI think most people when seeing this will think it -is- some sort of medical device. It sure as hell looks a lot more like an inhaler than a gun to me. That is a plus, not a drawback. Much easier to pull an "inhaler" out than a weapon in front of an attacker. A smart person might ham it up and grab their chest and tell the attacker they are having an asthma attack."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites