Congress Reviewing Survival Plans From Big 3

[airdvr 210]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2008/12/03/congress-reviewing-survival-plans-big/

Am I missing something here?

Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., said the mood in Congress "candidly is not supportive" of the automakers, although he called the consequences of just one of them failing "cataclysmic."

"Two of the Big Three say they cannot survive until the end of the year and if one or more goes down, all three go down," Specter said at a round-table discussion in Philadelphia.

Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, said the automakers still need to prove they can survive and be profitable. "If these companies are asking for taxpayer dollars, they must convince Congress that they are going to shape up and change their ways," Dodd said in a statement.

Did these bozos require the same from the banks and insurance companies?

For the record I am not a supporter of either "rescue plan". I think it ultimately weakens both industries. Steel manufacturers begged for the same in the '90's and were turned down. Steel is now a viable industry again.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Rookie120 0]

I thought what the BIG 3 was asking for was a Govt loan. Is this correct?

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[Gawain 0]

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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2008/12/03/congress-reviewing-survival-plans-big/

Did these bozos require the same from the banks and insurance companies?

For the record I am not a supporter of either "rescue plan". I think it ultimately weakens both industries. Steel manufacturers begged for the same in the '90's and were turned down. Steel is now a viable industry again.

For what it's worth, US steel was helped by tariffs put in place during the beginning of President Bush's first term (IIRC). However, you are correct in your assessment. Ford has a credit line to survive up to three years at its current burn rate. GM not so much...

C H A P T E R 1 1

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kallend 2,156]

Quote

Quote

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2008/12/03/congress-reviewing-survival-plans-big/

Did these bozos require the same from the banks and insurance companies?

For the record I am not a supporter of either "rescue plan". I think it ultimately weakens both industries. Steel manufacturers begged for the same in the '90's and were turned down. Steel is now a viable industry again.

For what it's worth, US steel was helped by tariffs put in place during the beginning of President Bush's first term (IIRC). However, you are correct in your assessment. Ford has a credit line to survive up to three years at its current burn rate. GM not so much...

C H A P T E R 1 1

Of course, control of a large fraction of the US steel industry is now in Indian hands (Lakshmi Mittal).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[airdvr 210]

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Of course, control of a large fraction of the US steel industry is now in Indian hands (Lakshmi Mittal).

True. And a large fraction of the US auto industry is already controlled by Japan and to a lesser degree the EU.

Without doing a ton of research I'll go with that I think I know...

1. The big 3 sell alot of cars in the EU. Small, fuel efficient cars. I'm not sure why they don't sell them here but I think it has to do with government regs and the buying public's appetite.

2. The UAW has squeezed the big 3 to the breaking point.

3. Management doesn't know what to build anymore. My guess is DC will madate small, fuel efficient cars. I believe this will lead to the end for them.

4. As much as everyone hails cars like the Prius, Toyota hasn't yet found a way to make a profit on the sales of those cars.

Giving them our tax money will only delay the inevitable. People are repulsed at the thought of the US car makers going bankrupt and the ripple effect it will have on the economy, but there will be new players to take the place of the folks that got burned. Detroit's bankruptcy won't be the end of them, it will be the transformation that needs to take place.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[billvon 3,121]

> As much as everyone hails cars like the Prius, Toyota hasn't yet found
>a way to make a profit on the sales of those cars.

==============
Monday, September 08, 2008
Next Prius "hugely profitable" and cheaper
Economies of scale have been breached

Back in 1997, Toyota lost about $10,000 on every Toyota Prius produced. Next year, thanks to economies of scale, hybrid part costs for the Toyota Prius will be cut in half, enabling Toyota to both decrease Prius prices and increase profits. Noriyuki Matsushima, analyst at NikkoCitigroup in Tokyo, told NewsWeek "the new Prius is going to be hugely profitable." And Toyota sees even greater hybrid production cost cuts throughout the next decade. Thus, by just 2010, hybrid vehicles could account for 10 percent of Toyota's operating profits according to Goldman Sachs analyst Kota Yuzawa.

Who says today's hybrids don't make financial sense? I guess only those without vision and long term thinking.
==============

Toyota took a huge gamble on the Prius, and it's about to pay off. They basically had to subsidize it while their factories (and the factories of their suppliers) tooled up to produce them by the millions. Now that the economies of scale have kicked in, they'll be making a pretty good profit. (Or more accurately not losing as much as the other auto manufacturers.)

[airdvr 210]

Worst Sales Performance of Any Car: Toyota Priushttp://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/12/car-sales-drop-prius-most.php

Back to my point. DC will require small, fuel efficient vehicles the American buying public doesn't want in the numbers it will take to be profitable. And yet we get this..

Obviously, the more forward-thinking automakers that have built hybrids and concentrated on fuel efficiency have done better in the marketplace. Any bailout funding should be tied to requirements that they commit to building hybrids, clean diesels and other highly fuel-efficient vehicles.


Look out...being told what you can drive is near.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[airdvr 210]

It just gets more insane....

United Auto Workers: Union Will Restart Contract Talks With Big 3 Car Manufacturers
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,461145,00.html

"We're going to sit down and work out the mechanics," Gettelfinger said at a news conference after meeting with local union officials. "We're a little unclear on some of the issues."

He's not unclear at all. He knows the UAW has Detroit by the short and curlies. ANd only when they get close to being able to tell him and his UAW mafia to fuck off do they respond.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[skydyvr 0]

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Look out...being told what you can drive is near.

Damn, I hope so.

I'll never understand how anyone can think their right to drive whatever the hell they want supersedes everyone else's right to preserve a precious non-renewable resource in a reasonable way. CAFE is weak. Detroit is deeply stupid. My Hummer driving neighbor, who primarily uses it to drive around town, is stupid.

. . =(_8^(1)

[SpeedRacer 1]

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My Hummer driving neighbor, who primarily uses it to drive around town, is stupid.

You need to get this bumper sticker:

"NICE HUMMER! SORRY ABOUT YOUR PENIS!"

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[billvon 3,121]

>DC will require small, fuel efficient vehicles the American buying public
>doesn't want in the numbers it will take to be profitable.

No, DC will require a manufacturer's fleet to be, on average, more fuel efficient.

This does not mean that all their cars will be small.
This does not mean that all their cars will have to be fuel efficient.
This does not mean that all their cars will be hybrids.
This does not mean that all their cars will be made of plastic.

What it does mean is that companies will have to make their cars on average more fuel efficient. Now that tougher CAFE standards are coming (and more importantly now that fuel prices have gone above $4 a gallon, and will likely return there) companies are making even their biggest trucks more fuel efficient.

>Look out...being told what you can drive is near.

It's here today. You can't drive a go-kart on a freeway, or taxi an airplane down a residential street without all sorts of permits. Horrors! Communism! Fascism! Someone, quick, post something on the Internet!