The Automakers Make Another Bid

[Gawain 0]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081202/ap_on_go_co/meltdown_autos

So, they're driving to DC, because of the image of having a corporate jet.... I suppose you can't use the preservation of senior management as a defense of such a practice, given how terribly they've performed. That's still fricken retarded guys. Fly commercial, fly first class criminey!!

The Ford CEO, Alan Mulally, has really put it out there...look at all Ford is going to do: reduce CEO salary to $1; sell all five corporate aircraft, cancel management bonuses for 2009, and no merit increases for management either, and might sell one of its core brands: Volvo.

They also plan to reduce the number of dealers and number of suppliers.

Great.

How does this change the core of your company's problems Mr. Mulally? How does this improve operating costs on a grand scale?

Ford pledged to accelerate hybrid rollouts. Great, means nothing if your manufacturing processes are not improved. All this means nothing if you don't reduce the crippling cost of labor -- UAW take notice. Ford said it would invest $14B to improve fuel efficiency. How about you invest that in building factories in states that don't have stupid-crazy rules and have cheaper labor and cost of living? There's a reason why Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Subaru didn't build plants in Michigan or the Northeast.

I fully expect GM and Chrysler to have similar impotent plans.

1. The Big Three should not be seeking federal assistance.
2. Congress should not even be entertaining giving money because the are incapable of running anything, they can't even run their own cafeteria.
3. When you have a company that directly employs 250,000 people, burning through $2B per month...that's 8,000 per month, per employee (GM) -- cut costs, don't seek loans!!!

If I could only be king of the big three for six months...not one new idea between the three of them...sad, truly sad.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[futuredivot 0]

Selling the jets now would be a waste. the market is really soft

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[happythoughts 0]

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The Ford CEO, Alan Mulally, has really put it out there...look at all Ford is going to do: reduce CEO salary to $1;

I don't think that CEO compensation is limited to salary.
That is just window dressing.

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Ford pledged to accelerate hybrid rollouts.

So, Ford is doing what it should have been doing 8 years ago?

Two questions that no one ever successfully answers:
1- If all these things are such good ideas, why didn't they know about them?
2- If they knew about them, why weren't they doing them?
(Like the successful competition)

If they didn't understand what needed to be done, then they are incompetent because their competition did. Fire them.
If they knew, but didn't do anything, then they are poor managers. Fire them.

They have pissed away billions in shareholders money and now they want to do the same with taxpayers money.
Instead, how about a shareholders lawsuit against them personally?

How about demanding a 10-year management plan?

The biggest idiocy is that they didn't even have to come up with a new thought. Just look at Yahoo News and see what Toyota is planning for next year.

[BillyVance 35]

I can then be proud to say that none of the auto manufacturing and parts plants in Alabama - Mercedes Benz, Toyota, Honda and Hyundai, are infested by unions or UAW for that matter. UAW has been trying to get in there with no luck. Keep them out!

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Gawain 0]

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The Ford CEO, Alan Mulally, has really put it out there...look at all Ford is going to do: reduce CEO salary to $1;

I don't think that CEO compensation is limited to salary.
That is just window dressing.

Quote

Ford pledged to accelerate hybrid rollouts.

So, Ford is doing what it should have been doing 8 years ago?

Two questions that no one ever successfully answers:
1- If all these things are such good ideas, why didn't they know about them?
2- If they knew about them, why weren't they doing them?
(Like the successful competition)

If they didn't understand what needed to be done, then they are incompetent because their competition did. Fire them.
If they knew, but didn't do anything, then they are poor managers. Fire them.

They have pissed away billions in shareholders money and now they want to do the same with taxpayers money.
Instead, how about a shareholders lawsuit against them personally?

How about demanding a 10-year management plan?

The biggest idiocy is that they didn't even have to come up with a new thought. Just look at Yahoo News and see what Toyota is planning for next year.

You and I are on the same page, my post was in the context of criticism.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[happythoughts 0]

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You and I are on the same page, my post was in the context of criticism.

[Gawain 0]

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I can then be proud to say that none of the auto manufacturing and parts plants in Alabama - Mercedes Benz, Toyota, Honda and Hyundai, are infested by unions or UAW for that matter. UAW has been trying to get in there with no luck. Keep them out!

I have an acquaintance that works at the MB plant in Alabama. They've been able to deflect UAW by increasing wages, but now it's getting to the point they won't be able to do it. At some point, they'll have to level off pay raises, or, cut back. If UAW gets in there, I have no doubt that MB would close the plant.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Andy9o8 3]

I think those 3 guys should also refund, back to their companies, the difference between the cost of those trips to/from Washington in their private jets and commercial coach-class airfare (plus per diem interest). The employees and shareholders are certainly entitled to nothing less.

[marks2065 0]

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I can then be proud to say that none of the auto manufacturing and parts plants in Alabama - Mercedes Benz, Toyota, Honda and Hyundai, are infested by unions or UAW for that matter. UAW has been trying to get in there with no luck. Keep them out!

I have an acquaintance that works at the MB plant in Alabama. They've been able to deflect UAW by increasing wages, but now it's getting to the point they won't be able to do it. At some point, they'll have to level off pay raises, or, cut back. If UAW gets in there, I have no doubt that MB would close the plant.

this is what can happen in the US if they could get rid of unions.
http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189

[stitch 0]

Subaru's one and only assembly plant is in Indiana. So is Nissan's truck plant.

Also, GM's truck plant is in Indiana, as is Chrysler's casting foundry and transmission plant.

All of the big three have assembly plants in Ohio, as does Honda.

What's your point ?

"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

[normiss 917]

but the company owns those jets.
there was a time when the security of the executives of the company required private jets.
I seem to recall a few corporate executives being kidnapped for ransoms.

[Gawain 0]

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I think those 3 guys should also refund, back to their companies, the difference between the cost of those trips to/from Washington in their private jets and commercial coach-class airfare (plus per diem interest). The employees and shareholders are certainly entitled to nothing less.

Actually, being the CEO of global companies like Ford and GM I think justifies have private jets. Especially when it comes to staggering and distributing management. Do they have to be used all the time? No. But if you have a management team that needs to go to Brazil then UK then Detroit...etc., a Gulfstream is far more efficient than relying on commercial assets.

Sh*t, use NetJets...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kallend 2,230]

Quote

Quote

I think those 3 guys should also refund, back to their companies, the difference between the cost of those trips to/from Washington in their private jets and commercial coach-class airfare (plus per diem interest). The employees and shareholders are certainly entitled to nothing less.

Actually, being the CEO of global companies like Ford and GM I think justifies have private jets. Especially when it comes to staggering and distributing management. Do they have to be used all the time? No. But if you have a management team that needs to go to Brazil then UK then Detroit...etc., a Gulfstream is far more efficient than relying on commercial assets.

Sh*t, use NetJets...

Use videoconferencing.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Rookie120 0]

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Use videoconferencing.

Maybe, but sometimes nothing beats a face to face with a firm handshake.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[TheAnvil 0]

The antics of the Detroit crowd and their supporters would be amusing if it weren't for the finite probability that they actually will be bailed out.

Those who support a bailout may adequately be described as 'dumbfucks'.

A legal mechanism already exists for corporations when they are no longer profitable and able to pay their debts. It's known as Chapter 11 Bankruptcy.

Why ANYONE would want taxpayer $$ to go into companies manufacturing a tangible product in a competitive market that have no coherent plan for profitability that haven't even been through the existing bankruptcy process is utterly beyond me.

Some of the focus has been fucktarded. Corporate jets - I don't give a fuck. The CEOs of multinationals typically fly in them because their time is valuable and the time the gain by taking those jets pays for their use - and then some. Who cares? Tactic targeted at idiots.

Executive compensation. As compared to the difference between the Big 3 salaries versus their competitors until recent UAW concessions? Show that $$ figure! Better still, show the total amount paid to people in job banks doing nothing since their inception in the 80's! STUPID! Add in the benefits package for those in job banks doing nothing as well. Executives earn that salary for a reason - their services are valuable and the market sets those rates. Who the hell is focusing on that as an issue vice the core causes of insolvency for these corporations? IDIOTS!

Bottom line - these corporations are going under. There is an existing legal mechanism for them to pursue. They should go that route and then recover or cease to exist as an entity. A government bailout is NOT in the best interest of the taxpayer.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[happythoughts 0]

The shareholders money has been sucked dry.
Now they are going to rob the taxpayers.

[billvon 3,173]

>Why ANYONE would want taxpayer $$ to go into companies manufacturing
>a tangible product in a competitive market that have no coherent plan for
>profitability that haven't even been through the existing bankruptcy process is
>utterly beyond me.

Oh, I have no problem understanding their motivations.

1) Politicians wish to be seen as "fixing the economy" and fixing a big company will portray that image.

2) US car companies are beloved entities; for years "buy american!" has been touted as a patriotic thing to do. Many people have fond memories of their Mustang, or yearn for the good ol' days of big Detroit iron. Thus many people will support "assisting" them to "help them through the hard times."

3) A bailout package might prevent an even more dramatic collapse, thus saving jobs for tens of thousands of voters.

I agree that it's a bad idea in the long run though.

[Gawain 0]

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>Why ANYONE would want taxpayer $$ to go into companies manufacturing
>a tangible product in a competitive market that have no coherent plan for
>profitability that haven't even been through the existing bankruptcy process is
>utterly beyond me.

Oh, I have no problem understanding their motivations.

1) Politicians wish to be seen as "fixing the economy" and fixing a big company will portray that image.

2) US car companies are beloved entities; for years "buy american!" has been touted as a patriotic thing to do. Many people have fond memories of their Mustang, or yearn for the good ol' days of big Detroit iron. Thus many people will support "assisting" them to "help them through the hard times."

3) A bailout package might prevent an even more dramatic collapse, thus saving jobs for tens of thousands of voters.

I agree that it's a bad idea in the long run though.

Therein lies the unfortunate reality, I can't remember the last time big government fixed anything...the current bailout isn't arresting much, and investing in failing companies doesn't promise much of an ROI.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!