Dozens killed hundreds injured in Indian terrorist attacks Americans & Brits being hunted tonight

[Andy9o8 2]

You & I posted simultaneously. My answer to your inquiry is in my post #74.

But I'll recognize the point you make, that destabilized former Soviet Bloc states that have retained their nukes are perhaps an equally grave threat of regional nuclear war as India/Pakistan. Militating against that is the threat of massive retaliation against them by Russia. Militating in favor of that is the fact that the leaders of some of those states are not nearly as stable as the leaders of India or Pakistan (especially India).

[Squeak 17]

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I agree. In my mind, the next use of a nuclear weapon in anger - and it's just a matter of time - is more likely than not to be in the India-Pakistan theater.

it doesn't make me think that at all

the same could have easily been said anytime over that last 50 years from any nuclear nation.

I respectfully disagree. In sum, nuclear war between the US & the USSR during the Cold War was averted by each side's belief in/recognition of the Mutual Assured Destruction principle. China was very unlikely to go nuclear against anyone after they first acquired nukes. Israel was always highly unlikely to use their nukes unless their destruction was virtually imminent absent their use. And who the hell was Brazil ever likely to nuke? India/Pakistan aside, that's pretty much it as far as the Nuclear Club over the past few decades goes.

[Andy9o8 2]

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my post was in reply to the likely hood of terrorists obtaining the nuclear materials it had nothing to do with opposing nations

It seemed to my that you were addressing both; but in any event...
I do agree that the nuclear terrorism threat is real, and it will get increasingly real for the basic reason I discussed above: ongoing proliferation and miniaturization of the technology. I'll also concede that nuclear terrorism just might be the first "next use" of a nuclear device in anger if the Indians and Pakistanis can restrain themselves from turning Kashmir into glass.

(I will also note that, officially at least, the nukes that Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine inherited from the Soviet Union have all been transferred over to Russia - so that particular regional threat does seem to have been minimized of late.)

[tumbler 0]

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my post was in reply to the likely hood of terrorists obtaining the nuclear materials it had nothing to do with opposing nations

It seemed to my that you were addressing both; but in any event...
I do agree that the nuclear terrorism threat is real, and it will get increasingly real for the basic reason I discussed above: ongoing proliferation and miniaturization of the technology. I'll also concede that nuclear terrorism just might be the first "next use" of a nuclear device in anger if the Indians and Pakistanis can restrain themselves from turning Kashmir into glass.

(I will also note that, officially at least, the nukes that Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine inherited from the Soviet Union have all been transferred over to Russia - so that particular regional threat does seem to have been minimized of late.)

Our speculation is indeed boundless. It is tad concerning that today's reports indicate a "chilling" of relations between India and Pakistan over the past two days. I reckon the Indian government has been a little busy though, so I am not putting to much credence into that. Figure something bad has happened and I have a long time enemy, of course I am going to wonder out loud if they had a hand in it.

Regardless, I cannot see the path to nukes. Not here and not because of this.

[Skyrad 0]

Indian press are just whipping up shit. Yesterady they were claiming that the terrorists were Brits, today they're saying that they are all Pakistani. Yet the only Terr taken alive has a Mauritius passport and isn't a Pakistani. There were attacks in Karachi yesterday (That no suprise the western media chose to ignore again) yet Pakistan isn't blaming India. Its time for facts and investigation not finger pointing.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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Supposedly interviews with captures terrorists say that they prefer to target a populace that doesn't have a hunting tradition and culture as well as a populace that is unarmed (by law or tradition).

I can't confirm this, although I would love to believe its true, that some terrorists have said they are scared of places like Texas, Florida and the general southern US due to a strong hunting and pro-gun culture.

LMFAO

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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I agree. In my mind, the next use of a nuclear weapon in anger - and it's just a matter of time - is more likely than not to be in the India-Pakistan theater.

it doesn't make me think that at all

the same could have easily been said anytime over that last 50 years from any nuclear nation.

I respectfully disagree. In sum, nuclear war between the US & the USSR during the Cold War was averted by each side's belief in/recognition of the Mutual Assured Destruction principle. China was very unlikely to go nuclear against anyone after they first acquired nukes. Israel was always highly unlikely to use their nukes unless their destruction was virtually imminent absent their use. And who the hell was Brazil ever likely to nuke? India/Pakistan aside, that's pretty much it as far as the Nuclear Club over the past few decades goes.

[Skyrad 0]

14 Dead and 90 injured in attacks on Karachi yesterday yet how many of you heard a thing about it? Why is this ignored by the Western media?


Sunday, November 30,2008
KARACHI: Fourteen people were killed and over 90, including four women, sustained injuries while 15 vehicles were torched in separate incidents of violence here on Saturday.

Various incidents of stone pelting and aerial firing were also reported. Following the incidents, shops were also closed in most areas as chief of Sindh Police said that the situation had been brought under control.

Eyewitnesses said that the violence started from the Banaras area when some armed men held a protest and blocked the Bacha Khan Chowk.

The protest turned violent when two groups exchanged fire in which several people sustained injuries. The protesters also torched vehicles.

Meanwhile, unidentified armed men started firing in other parts of the city.

Safdar, 30, was killed in Nazimabad while two brothers, Naseeb and Aqeel, died in North Nazimabad. Babar Shah, 35, a resident of Pahar Gunj, was returning home when armed men killed him. Another unidentified man was killed in North Nazimabad. Three more people died near the Nazimabad bridge in the Liaquatabad Town. Matiullah was gunned down in Paposh Nagar while Najeeb, 45, Mukhtar Ali and Muhammad Ali were killed in Orangi Town. An unidentified person was shot dead in Kala Board area.

Most of the bodies and the injured were shifted to the Qatar Hospital while some of them were ferried to the Jinnah Post Graduate Medical Centre and the Civil Hospital.

Civil Hospital sources said that they received the body of Najeebullah, who was injured in Baldia Town. He succumbed to his injuries while receiving treatment, the sources said. Qatar Hospital sources said that they had received three bodies and over 90 injured. They added that most of the victims were from Manghopir, Mominabad and Peerabad areas. Meanwhile, miscreants torched seven rickshaws near Liaquatabad No 10.

Unidentified armed men torched five mini-buses and a rickshaw in Sector-4, F-3 stand,

Saeedabad, while a the bullet-riddled body of an unidentified man was found from a Suzuki Hi-roof CF-2176 from Block-L1 in the Surjani Town police limits. Also, a car was torched by unidentified men near Ancholi in the Gulberg police limits and news of ariel firing was also reported.

Armed men reportedly threatened shopkeepers to close their businesses. Incidents of violence were also reported from SITE, Pakistan Bazaar, Gulberg, Gulbahar, Moosa Colony, Garden, Saddar, Gulshan-e-Iqbal, Gulistan-e-Jauhar, Buffer Zone, Patel Para, Ranchore Lines, Kharadar, Mithadar and other areas.

Meanwhile, Capital City Police Officer Waseem Ahmed said that directives had been issued to the police to arrest and deal with anti-social elements with an iron hand. No leniency would be shown to miscreants, he added.

He said that the police had brought the situation under control. He said that the police had arrested over 20 suspects and recovered arms from their possession.

A Rangers spokesman said that their personnel were put on high alert and were moved to the affected areas to bring the situation under control.

http://www.southasianmedia.net/index_story.cfm?id=540860&category=Frontend&Country=PAKISTAN

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[mnealtx 0]

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Supposedly interviews with captures terrorists say that they prefer to target a populace that doesn't have a hunting tradition and culture as well as a populace that is unarmed (by law or tradition).

I can't confirm this, although I would love to believe its true, that some terrorists have said they are scared of places like Texas, Florida and the general southern US due to a strong hunting and pro-gun culture.

LMFAO

Dunno about terrorists, but there was a study that showed that criminals avoid houses where they know the owner is armed.

How's that 'hot' burglary rate doing back home, again?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Skyrad 0]

Where I live its low and falling.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[likearock 2]

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But it does make you think. Suppose somehow those same terrorists got a hold of some nuclear material and used it against India. You think it would be so easy to show restraint then when evidence points to Pakistan? Something like that could end up as a full fledged nuclear war.

In this case, I doubt if the Pakistani government itself was involved but the ISI is another matter.

I agree. In my mind, the next use of a nuclear weapon in anger - and it's just a matter of time - is more likely than not to be in the India-Pakistan theater.

it doesn't make me think that at all

the same could have easily been said anytime over that last 50 years from any nuclear nation.

[Squeak 17]

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Here's the difference. It's only recently that we have a nuclear country (read Pakistan) where there is close cooperation between terrorist groups and high agencies of the state (read ISI). That is a lethal combination if it is not addressed and Obama should see this as one of his highest foreign policy objectives.

Once nukes fall in the hands of a terrorist organization game over. Do you really think those people give a shit about mutually assured destruction?

You are shitting me
you dont know your recent history very well do you
that's why i rarely post in here.
To many people with too many opinions based in ignorance, but some times you lot do make me laugh

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[kallend 2,151]

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Supposedly interviews with captures terrorists say that they prefer to target a populace that doesn't have a hunting tradition and culture as well as a populace that is unarmed (by law or tradition).

I can't confirm this, although I would love to believe its true, that some terrorists have said they are scared of places like Texas, Florida and the general southern US due to a strong hunting and pro-gun culture.

LMFAO

Dunno about terrorists, but there was a study that showed that criminals avoid houses where they know the owner is armed.

How's that 'hot' burglary rate doing back home, again?

And there's a DoJ study showing that criminals place guns near the top of the list of attractive theft targets.

How are Texas, Georgia and Florida homicides holding up?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[likearock 2]

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Here's the difference. It's only recently that we have a nuclear country (read Pakistan) where there is close cooperation between terrorist groups and high agencies of the state (read ISI). That is a lethal combination if it is not addressed and Obama should see this as one of his highest foreign policy objectives.

Once nukes fall in the hands of a terrorist organization game over. Do you really think those people give a shit about mutually assured destruction?

You are shitting me
you dont know your recent history very well do you
that's why i rarely post in here.
To many people with too many opinions based in ignorance, but some times you lot do make me laugh

Do have some facts or are you just content to mouth off?

[Squeak 17]

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Here's the difference. It's only recently that we have a nuclear country (read Pakistan) where there is close cooperation between terrorist groups and high agencies of the state (read ISI). That is a lethal combination if it is not addressed and Obama should see this as one of his highest foreign policy objectives.

Once nukes fall in the hands of a terrorist organization game over. Do you really think those people give a shit about mutually assured destruction?

You are shitting me
you dont know your recent history very well do you
that's why i rarely post in here.
To many people with too many opinions based in ignorance, but some times you lot do make me laugh

Do have some facts or are you just content to mouth off?

My job here is not to educate the lazy, merely to point and laugh
^
^
^
^
This is me pointing and laughing

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[likearock 2]

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Here's the difference. It's only recently that we have a nuclear country (read Pakistan) where there is close cooperation between terrorist groups and high agencies of the state (read ISI). That is a lethal combination if it is not addressed and Obama should see this as one of his highest foreign policy objectives.

Once nukes fall in the hands of a terrorist organization game over. Do you really think those people give a shit about mutually assured destruction?

You are shitting me
you dont know your recent history very well do you
that's why i rarely post in here.
To many people with too many opinions based in ignorance, but some times you lot do make me laugh

Do have some facts or are you just content to mouth off?

My job here is not to educate the lazy, merely to point and laugh
^
^
^
^
This is me pointing and laughing

I figured as much.

[Squeak 17]

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^
^
^
This is me pointing and laughing

I figured as much.

well the pointing and laughing must be paying off if you are actually "figuring" now instead of making baseless posts from a point of ignorance.
Go You
My job here is done

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[likearock 2]

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Quote

^
^
^
This is me pointing and laughing

I figured as much.

well the pointing and laughing must be paying off if you are actually "figuring" now instead of making baseless posts from a point of ignorance.
Go You
My job here is done

How old are you?

[Squeak 17]

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My job here is done

How old are you?

Older than you, and old enough to know better than to make statements on an international forum from an uneducated parochial point of view


also old enough to know better than to argue at any serious level with people on the general internet.

Old enough to understand that people confuse moderately well constrcuted opinions with fact, your previous post is a very good example this.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[tbrown 26]

The last I heard on NPR this morning, the count was getting up to 182 dead and rising.

More interesting was the report on the way India seems willing to just blame Pakistan and slide back into their usually complacent groove. While the railroad station was still crawling with cops, they were paying no attention at all to young men with backpacks entering the station without any kind of check or search procedure.

Guess if you believe in reincarnation it just doesn't matter, especially if you can blame the neighbors.....

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[Skyrad 0]

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Here's the difference. It's only recently that we have a nuclear country (read Pakistan) where there is close cooperation between terrorist groups and high agencies of the state (read ISI). That is a lethal combination if it is not addressed and Obama should see this as one of his highest foreign policy objectives.

Once nukes fall in the hands of a terrorist organization game over. Do you really think those people give a shit about mutually assured destruction?

You are shitting me
you dont know your recent history very well do you
that's why i rarely post in here.
To many people with too many opinions based in ignorance, but some times you lot do make me laugh

Do have some facts or are you just content to mouth off?

My job here is not to educate the lazy, merely to point and laugh
^
^
^
^
This is me pointing and laughing

LOL

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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The last I heard on NPR this morning, the count was getting up to 182 dead and rising.

More interesting was the report on the way India seems willing to just blame Pakistan and slide back into their usually complacent groove. While the railroad station was still crawling with cops, they were paying no attention at all to young men with backpacks entering the station without any kind of check or search procedure.

Guess if you believe in reincarnation it just doesn't matter, especially if you can blame the neighbors.....

I agree. Though this could be very bad for America. If the Indians build up troops at the border or threaten to do so Pakistan will be forced to send troops the border to reinforce its defences. Currently Pakistan has thousands of troops doing their best to close and control their vast long border with Afghanistan to try and stop Taliban from free movement across it to resupply, an d reequip to go and attck US forces there. Allot of posters here seem to think that Pakistan is doing every thing it can to help the Taliban, that is simply not true. The Pakistani Government has lost thousands of troops fighting in the tribal areas against the Taliban and have assisted the US in their ongoing fight. The diversion of several thousand troops to the Indian border would mean that US forces would be under unrestricted Taliban attack from the east and would allow the Taliban to attack the from west and east with unfettered logistical support.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Andy9o8 2]

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The last I heard on NPR this morning, the count was getting up to 182 dead and rising.

More interesting was the report on the way India seems willing to just blame Pakistan and slide back into their usually complacent groove. While the railroad station was still crawling with cops, they were paying no attention at all to young men with backpacks entering the station without any kind of check or search procedure.

Guess if you believe in reincarnation it just doesn't matter, especially if you can blame the neighbors.....

I agree. Though this could be very bad for America. If the Indians build up troops at the border or threaten to do so Pakistan will be forced to send troops the border to reinforce its defences. Currently Pakistan has thousands of troops doing their best to close and control their vast long border with Afghanistan to try and stop Taliban from free movement across it to resupply, an d reequip to go and attck US forces there. Allot of posters here seem to think that Pakistan is doing every thing it can to help the Taliban, that is simply not true. The Pakistani Government has lost thousands of troops fighting in the tribal areas against the Taliban and have assisted the US in their ongoing fight. The diversion of several thousand troops to the Indian border would mean that US forces would be under unrestricted Taliban attack from the east and would allow the Taliban to attack the from west and east with unfettered logistical support.

I think the Indians realize this - the Brits and Americans are certainly telling them this behind the scenes - and despite their anti-Pakistan bluster for public consumption, are probably going to keep their heads and cool their jets. This time.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Once nukes fall in the hands of a terrorist organization game over. Do you really think those people give a shit about mutually assured destruction?

Do you know many 'terrorist' LEADERS who don't care about their own lives, and therefore don't fear the inevitable response from their actions?

Did Osama fly the planes? No, he sent dumb followers to do that dirty work.

The problem for Pakistan v India is I don't think they have sufficient nuclear arsenals to finish the job (particularly Pakistan) One of them might get the stupid idea that they can win an exchange. Not likely, but far more likely than the Russians trying to take on the US triad of bombers, subs, and missiles.

[Amazon 7]

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Do you know many 'terrorist' LEADERS who don't care about their own lives, and therefore don't fear the inevitable response from their actions?

Did Osama fly the planes? No, he sent dumb followers to do that dirty work.

You know.. that is where the whole Jihad thing really breaks down for me...

If the whole 70 virgin thing was such a good deal you would think all the holiest of the holy.. the Imam's etc would be lining up for martyrdom operations so they could get some hot virgin action.