nerdgirl 0 #1 November 22, 2008 So I’m in a cab to the New Orleans airport earlier today. The driver has the Dave Ramsay show playing on the radio. It’s not a show to which I don't usually listen, but I’ve heard of it. The host makes a comment that the introduction of credit card swipers to some Salvation Army red kettles in Texas and Colorado was morally bad. I wish I could remember his exact words. How is that immoral? Seems capitalistic and smart, imo. What do you think? VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #2 November 22, 2008 >Seems capitalistic and smart, imo. Agreed. A way to leverage your greed - whether that greed benefits the company you run, or the family you are a member of, or the charity you support - is, in capitalism, the definition of a good thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #3 November 22, 2008 QuoteThe host makes a comment that the introduction of credit card swipers to some Salvation Army red kettles in Texas and Colorado was morally bad. I wish I could remember his exact words. How is that immoral? Seems capitalistic and smart, imo. What do you think? I find it very odd that anyone would consider the idea "morally bad." Those donation points have always been opportunistic in both their placement and timing... and I think that's also capatalistic and smart and completely acceptable. Adding ease of payment to timing and placement makes sense to me.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #4 November 22, 2008 Quote So I’m in a cab to the New Orleans airport earlier today. The driver has the Dave Ramsay show playing on the radio. It’s not a show to which I don't usually listen, but I’ve heard of it. The host makes a comment that the introduction of credit card swipers to some Salvation Army red kettles in Texas and Colorado was morally bad. I wish I could remember his exact words. How is that immoral? Seems capitalistic and smart, imo. What do you think? VR/Marg I'm kinda familiar with Ramsey's concepts and it probably had something to do with debt. He hates credit cards and insists that only one should be around for absolute emergencies. The opportunity to run up debt in order to give to charity isn't really giving anything. It just creates more debt in a time of debt crisis. Maybe only allowing debit cards at the donations would be better. That is a total guess at what he may have meant. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #5 November 22, 2008 Since according to Visa, cash is going the way of the dodo the SA has to figure out some way of picking up "spare change". For me.....cash is king. ---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #6 November 22, 2008 I don't agree with everything Dave Ramsey says, but he is consistent. He doesn't like credit cards. He has no problem with debit-cards. His mantra is consistent in that he does not think credit cards needed. I don't share his views of credit cards in that it's the bank's money first, not mine. That's it. It get's paid off every month. Other than that, I enjoy his show.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #7 November 22, 2008 QuoteIt’s not a show to which I don't usually listen,.... pssst. That means you usually listen to it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #8 November 22, 2008 The Salvation army does great charity work and always gets my spare change and singles at X-mas. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #9 November 22, 2008 Quote It get's paid off every month. I wonder what fraction of credit card debt is paid off every month.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #10 November 22, 2008 QuoteI'm kinda familiar with Ramsey's concepts and it probably had something to do with debt. He hates credit cards and insists that only one should be around for absolute emergencies. The opportunity to run up debt in order to give to charity isn't really giving anything. It just creates more debt in a time of debt crisis. Maybe only allowing debit cards at the donations would be better. That is a total guess at what he may have meant. I am more than a little familiar with the Ramsey plan, We are debt free except the house and working hard on paying it off as well. And i think you are right about what he meant. Dave thinks that people who offer financing, and/or accept credit cards are encouraging people to incur more debt. Like JP said, cash is king! Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #11 November 23, 2008 Quote Quote It’s not a show to which I don't usually listen,.... pssst. That means you usually listen to it. You’re correct. My bad. I also spelled Ramsey's name incorrectly (Ramsay) in the text of my initial post. By the time I noticed 'em, I was back in ATL and unable to edit. (New Orleans airport has free wireless access. /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #12 November 23, 2008 QuoteI'm kinda familiar with Ramsey's concepts and it probably had something to do with debt. He hates credit cards and insists that only one should be around for absolute emergencies. The opportunity to run up debt in order to give to charity isn't really giving anything. It just creates more debt in a time of debt crisis. Maybe only allowing debit cards at the donations would be better. That is a total guess at what he may have meant. QuoteI don't agree with everything Dave Ramsey says, but he is consistent. He doesn't like credit cards. He has no problem with debit-cards. His mantra is consistent in that he does not think credit cards needed. Thanks for the additional contextual information. It would make sense that he would not endorse or encourage them (credit cards on Salvation Army red kettles) with that in mind. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #13 November 23, 2008 Quote I find it very odd that anyone would consider the idea "morally bad." Those donation points have always been opportunistic in both their placement and timing... and I think that's also capatalistic and smart and completely acceptable. Adding ease of payment to timing and placement makes sense to me. Agree -- both with the pragmatic aspects as well as the 'oddness' factor ... I think that's a concise word to express my immediate response Friday - the "moral" (normative) part struck me as 'odd.' Not a judgement but something that piqued my curiousity. More of a "huh?" than a "ugh" or an "I don't like." What struck me about the comment was the moral (normative) component. Or more precisely, why instill a moral component onto something that doesn’t seem to be a question of morals or ethics (i.e., normatives). How is enabling credit card capabilities for Salvation Army donations immoral? I can understand it being a question of personal finances. And that's entirely consistent with some of the other replies in the thread, e.g., cooments by [FallingOsh],[Gawain], [Brains]. From a neoliberal economics perspective, credit is good debt when paid off every month or used for true emergency uses. It’s also good debt if you’re the lender. From a traditional conservative perspective, which I gather is Ramsey’s intended audience, it would seem to be a personal choice/personal responsibility issue, e.g., if you can’t afford to pay off the donation at the end of the month don’t swipe the card. Unless one wants to invoke an anti-capitalist argument, which somehow doesn’t seem likely, I don’t see a moral or ethical argument. If one doesn’t like credit cards, that’s fine. Just because I don’t like something, that doesn’t make it unethical or immoral. I don’t like paying fees or interest, therefore I pay off my credit card each month & choose credits cards with no fees. Not because I think it’s normatively wrong, but because I would prefer to spend that money in other ways. That’s more a function of being financially responsible & the ability to do math. I don’t consider charging reasonable (non-usury) fees or interest to be immoral or unethical. Otoh, some religions (moral codes) do. I doubt, however, that Mr. Ramsey is arguing from Islamic religious law. Therefore what’s the benefit – strategic, rhetorical, or otherwise – to making it a moral issue? While I’m not thinking about it w/r/t any other specific issue and certainly wasn’t Friday afternoon on the way to the airport and I don't want to 'pick on' Ramsey (cuz the rest of his show & advice on personal finances made sense), it does suggest to me more general questions regarding calling things that aren’t truly moral or ethical issues (normatives) such. Those are the larger ethics and rhetorical questions that are metaphorically rolling around in my squishy gray matter. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
