Andrewwhyte 1 #26 November 22, 2008 QuoteThis is pretty silly, but the article is pretty vague. Was the billboard company politely asked to remove them because of complaints and chose to comply at their own will, or were they threatened, inimidated, or forced to remove them by the city. I see a big difference between the two, and one would not warrant a lawsuit. However I don't see that distinguished in this article. It simply says that they were asked to do so and did. So far it doesn't seem like there's any constitutional violations here. I'd like to know the full story here. If they were asked to do so by representatives of any level of government I would classify that as intimidation at some level. Representatives of the city should have declined to involve themselves in the matter. I am quite sure that if a group of atheists complained to them about religious signs they would not ask the group to remove them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverborg 0 #27 November 22, 2008 QuoteQuoteThis is pretty silly, but the article is pretty vague. Was the billboard company politely asked to remove them because of complaints and chose to comply at their own will, or were they threatened, inimidated, or forced to remove them by the city. I see a big difference between the two, and one would not warrant a lawsuit. However I don't see that distinguished in this article. It simply says that they were asked to do so and did. So far it doesn't seem like there's any constitutional violations here. I'd like to know the full story here. If they were asked to do so by representatives of any level of government I would classify that as intimidation at some level. Representatives of the city should have declined to involve themselves in the matter. I am quite sure that if a group of atheists complained to them about religious signs they would not ask the group to remove them. I see you're point, but I hardly see "asking" as intimidation. You're right that it isn't any of the city's business, but if you were the one that had to listen to the complaints every day, maybe you would think of a reasonable way of not having to deal with it anymore. Seems to me the billboard business had every right to just give a simple "no". If the city pressed the issue then you got a problem. That may or may not be the case here, you just can't draw that conclusion based on this article. Especially when journalists like to input their own "tone" into an article. Personally if I owned a billboard company and the city asked to take down adds that had every legal right to be there, I would tell them to get bent. If the city asked me if I could remove the adds and I said OK, then later sued them, that would be pretty freakin stupid. Would you honestly feel the same way about this if it were the other way around and city asked a billboard company to remove one of those "-God" signs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #28 November 22, 2008 You're being naive about the practical realities of bucking City Hall when they make a "request". You want to do business smoothly? - you can either have friends in power in the local government or you can have enemies. Andrewwhyte is spot on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverborg 0 #29 November 22, 2008 QuoteYou're being naive about the practical realities of bucking City Hall when they make a "request". You want to do business smoothly? - you can either have friends in power in the local government or you can have enemies. Andrewwhyte is spot on. I'm not gonna disagree with ya there, we just can't assume thats the case and bring a lawsuit based on inference. The business owner could sue if thats really the case and maybe the atheist organization if they really have a case, but its really the business owner's decision what he wants to put up on his board. I am really curious though, how many of the people that are up in arms about this would be if it were the other way around and it was the "-God" signs that were removed. I can pretty much assure that you're not gonna hear from the ACLU if it were the other way around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #30 November 23, 2008 QuoteWell, in that case, we have to do something about the Christians trying to push their radical agendas on everyone else They hate the freedom of religion that we have here in the US. I agree! but you understand that they probably won't recognize it as hatred, nor recognize that a radical political agenda is not the Christian mandate and accuse you of creating a strawman. Just as some people won't recognize hypocritical Athiests as being none other than a figment of my imagination....Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #31 November 23, 2008 Quote Quote More reasons to dislike religion and our government ... yes, and athiest as well for pushing their agenda on everybody else, the very thing they despise about christians other than God himself. Atheists dont despise GOD, if that's what you think you need to re-educate your self. THERE IS NO GOD to despise. and have yo seen the visual pollution that the god bothers put up on bill boards around the USofAYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #32 November 23, 2008 Quote I see you're point, but I hardly see "asking" as intimidation. So if three or four bikers wearing colours "asked" you to give up your seat so some of their friends could sit there (say in better seats to see the big event on TV at a bar) would you see that as intimidation? Just an example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #33 November 23, 2008 QuoteAtheists dont despise GOD, if that's what you think you need to re-educate your self. THERE IS NO GOD to despise. you said: Quoteand have yo seen the visual pollution that the god bothers put up on bill boards around the USofA Perhaps you need to re-educate yourself!Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #34 November 23, 2008 QuoteQuoteAtheists dont despise GOD, if that's what you think you need to re-educate your self. THERE IS NO GOD to despise. you said: Quoteand have yo seen the visual pollution that the god bothers put up on bill boards around the USofA Perhaps you need to re-educate yourself!not at all, the fact the they bother a nonexistent entity which they call god, does not detract from the visual pollution they postYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #35 November 23, 2008 There is no point in trying to argue logic with most christians just as there is no point trying to argue with a moonie or jehovas wittness, Christians choose 2000 year old superstitions over science and reason, and while I suspect many christian have a lot of doubt in what they beleive, but they dare not question it. Christianty does not lend it self well to self examination. I choose reality. What about that GM stock? that shit sucks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #36 November 23, 2008 While I didn't agree with the billboard, I think it was wrong for the city to get involved. Those that complained about it could have put up their own counter-point on another billboard, or they could have bought that space when the current contract is up. In the end, it is this freedom of expression that exposes what we like and dislike. This board clearly got under people's skin, thus likely reinforcing their own beliefs...if anything, it helps to keep it up, and doesn't martyr-ize the message by taking it down.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #37 November 23, 2008 Bill boards are a complete eye-sore and they should ALL be taken down. They defile the countryside. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #38 November 23, 2008 QuoteThere is no point in trying to argue logic with most christians What about the logic that a creation has a creator and that matter just doesn't appear out of thin air (or a vacuum for that matter) Futhermore...why is there this seemingly infinite vacuum to begin with, as if a canvas? Wrap your head around that and get back to me when you have an answer. Most people can acknowledge/accept this logic...the hard part is believing that this creator is somehow linked to the Bible. QuoteWhat about that GM stock? that shit sucks If you want to make bootless comments I would suggest using an AOL chatroom.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shermanator 4 #39 November 23, 2008 If the city did ask them to remove it, could it be assumed that they were getting complaints from their voters, and acted on those complaints? After all, don't we elect city officials who we think will make decisions in our best interests, and similar to what we believe?CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08 CSA #720 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #40 November 23, 2008 QuoteBill boards are a complete eye-sore and they should ALL be taken down. They defile the countryside. Yep.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #41 November 23, 2008 QuoteIf the city did ask them to remove it, could it be assumed that they were getting complaints from their voters, and acted on those complaints? After all, don't we elect city officials who we think will make decisions in our best interests, and similar to what we believe? I would tend to assume this is correct and it would explain this continuing problem. It seems politicians are more concerned with getting a vote than defending the constitution, which is why minorities are forced to continue fighting for thier rights, and appealing to a higher authority. It seems backwards.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #42 November 23, 2008 Do you mean like in the south when the voters did not want blacks to be able to ride in the front of the bus? The elected officials there were only acting on the will of the majority and thier percieved best interest. BTW There is this little document that protects the minority from the tyranny of the majority. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #43 November 23, 2008 You mean like the bootless comment " Have another one Barney? There has not been one scientific test evolution has failed, not one, every time it has been put to the test it has passed. Reality is far more facsinating than superstitions ever will. To think that some people still believe that Noah herded up the tens of millions of species on this planet and put them on an ark is just silly. I'm embarressed for them. Your saying most people can accept your logic is also silly, most people like Jerry Springer. The fact is the higher one is educated, the less apt they are to believe in creation. Back to the OP, what is it that scares the christians about billboards? If I thought I was ony on this planet for only a few years and then I went to paridise for eternity what would I care about what non believers did. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #44 November 23, 2008 QuoteIf the city did ask them to remove it, could it be assumed that they were getting complaints from their voters, and acted on those complaints? After all, don't we elect city officials who we think will make decisions in our best interests, and similar to what we believe? The US Constitution doesn't allow for that. It specifically prohibits the government from interfering in matters such as this.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shermanator 4 #45 November 23, 2008 Quote Quote If the city did ask them to remove it, could it be assumed that they were getting complaints from their voters, and acted on those complaints? After all, don't we elect city officials who we think will make decisions in our best interests, and similar to what we believe? The US Constitution doesn't allow for that. It specifically prohibits the government from interfering in matters such as this. but it doesn't always work out that way. I can't think of what the billboard was, but I know there have been others, here in so cal, that have been taken down just days after they were erected. Personally, I think this billboard in question, is of a tacky design, the color contrast hurts my eyes, maybe that is why they took it down . At least it was not one of those bright flashing ones that blind me when driving at night.CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08 CSA #720 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #46 November 23, 2008 Quote but it doesn't always work out that way. I can't think of what the billboard was, but I know there have been others, here in so cal, that have been taken down just days after they were erected. Personally, I think this billboard in question, is of a tacky design, the color contrast hurts my eyes, maybe that is why they took it down . At least it was not one of those bright flashing ones that blind me when driving at night. I'm confused as to whether or not you really understand the basic issue.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shermanator 4 #47 November 23, 2008 I do, I'm just not intellectual enough to put my thoughts into words, and make them sound intelligent. sorry.CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08 CSA #720 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #48 November 23, 2008 QuoteThere is no point in trying to argue logic with most christians just as there is no point trying to argue with a moonie or jehovas wittness, Christians choose 2000 year old superstitions over science and reason, and while I suspect many christian have a lot of doubt in what they beleive, but they dare not question it. Christianty does not lend it self well to self examination. I choose reality. sApparently some atheists only think they understand Christianity. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lewmonst 0 #49 November 23, 2008 QuoteWhat's so funny about this, to me, is how people STILL think all of California is ultra left wing. People outside of SoCal have NO idea how religious conservative certain parts of California are. This is so true... I was just talking to a friend about this last night. Particularly about the Prop 8 battle, and about the Bible Belt here in certain parts of SoCal... (OC & Tem/Mur) And I said, "Can you imagine our world withOUT religion...?" So much less conflict, less war, less arguing, less fear, less hypocrisy, less angst, less guilt, less insecurity, less psychoses, less elitism... Beyond COEXIST. Just Exist. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #50 November 23, 2008 QuoteApparently some atheists only think they understand Christianity. Just as, apparently, some specific religions think atheists are attacking them specifically. BTW, did you happen to see the Bill Maher movie "Religulous"?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
