DSE 5
Recommended Posts
QuoteQuoteThus, cutting down on the land the horses onced ranged.
What land are we talking about? An area in which they never naturally lived to begin with? Feral, not wild.
Are you talking about the Horses or Man .... oh yeah same thing really.
Cull over populated beasties ... encourage human overpoulation ? - Doesn't seem right, some how.
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
There is an interesting difference in tone to your 1st 2 poll choices John... not quite balanced.
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
>>they're decent, but not good horses and are prone to a lot of disease and expensive vet bills.
I agree that they are not nor ever will be show horses, mine retained a lot of his will to be wild and I had to spend a lot of time training him, but after a while he could handle a bit and saddle- and I could take him on a reasonably safe trail ride and get back in one piece. He was fast and maybe a little dangerous so definitely not for children to handle.
But I have not had the same experience health wize, mine was a super tough horse, his hooves were rugged and needed very little pampering and his health was excellent for his entire life- however i did keep him on lush pasture in a very low stress environment with practically no exposure to other sick animals, and he got lots of vaccinations.
I would still recommend adoption if a person had some horse experience, the space ,and time. It was really cool to watch him gallop around like the king of the pasture-I'm sure you know what I mean.
I agree that they are not nor ever will be show horses, mine retained a lot of his will to be wild and I had to spend a lot of time training him, but after a while he could handle a bit and saddle- and I could take him on a reasonably safe trail ride and get back in one piece. He was fast and maybe a little dangerous so definitely not for children to handle.
But I have not had the same experience health wize, mine was a super tough horse, his hooves were rugged and needed very little pampering and his health was excellent for his entire life- however i did keep him on lush pasture in a very low stress environment with practically no exposure to other sick animals, and he got lots of vaccinations.
I would still recommend adoption if a person had some horse experience, the space ,and time. It was really cool to watch him gallop around like the king of the pasture-I'm sure you know what I mean.
Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415
D S #3.1415
Thanks, Bill. I appreciate it.
Chuck
Chuck
I appreciate that.
Chuck
Chuck
I saw a story on the news about the horses and Ms. Pickens and recalled this thread and thought I would throw it out there. It resulted in my learning something. Once again, the 'news story' was only a miniscule part of the whole story. I feel, you have enlightend me with the truth. Thank you. Maybe, Ms. Pickens wants some of the lime-light her husband is getting? 
Chuck
DSE 5
Quote>>
I would still recommend adoption if a person had some horse experience, the space ,and time. It was really cool to watch him gallop around like the king of the pasture-I'm sure you know what I mean.
Indeed, I do. See attached.
But...I don't recommend anyone who isn't reasonably experienced with horses adopt one. Lush pasture/Western desert is somewhat of any oxymoron.
Hooves are tough, if they've never been shod they can stay that way. Problem isn't thrush or anything like that; if the feed is too rich they'll colic easily, and if they don't have a fair amount of land to walk, they'll colic fairly easily. They are very fast, and very front heavy (as opposed to what most horses are) which means not only can they throw you with significant front end power, but they can also get the drop on a rider or someone in front fairly easily too.
I love em, they're fun, but they take more care and pampering than even an Arabian, and a boatload more care than a Walker or Quarter. Mustangs are so ugly that they're beautiful (Kinda like Rosanna Arquette) and that big Roman nose is almost sexy.
But they're not the "pets" that many of the Hollywood crowd seem to think they are. They're the pet that will kill you, given inadequate training and care.
ryoder 1,590
QuoteMustangs are so ugly that they're beautiful (Kinda like Rosanna Arquette) and that big Roman nose is almost sexy.
To paraphrase a line from a movie she was in:
"If that is his idea of ugly, can you imagine his concept of attractive?"
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.
steve1 5
Chuck
We need more coyotes and wolves...
reply]
........................................................................
There's a ton of people who would disagree with that statement. We've now got an overabundance of wolves in Montana. It started out as a few wolves here and there, and now we have hundreds if not thousands.
They are still protected as an endangered species. Most everyone who hunts, hates them. The deer and elk numbers have dropped drastically. They are killing sometimes all of the newborn fawns and calves in some areas. They can bring down healthy deer, elk, and moose in the right conditions. They kill inhumanely. Often they will start eating an animal, before it is even dead.
One of the worst names you can call someone here in Montana is wolf lover.
We also have tons of coyotes. They usually don't bother horses. They might get a newborn colt, but usually the mother can chase them off easy enough.
One of the real reasons why horses aren't worth much now is because the federal government has shut down the horse slaughter buisness. If you have an old horse, or one that is lame, it's hard to even give them away. When the canneries were open you could sell a canner horse for hundreds of dollars.
I love horses as much as anyone. I don't think I could sell any of my horses as a canner. At the same time, I still wish the canneries were open....
DSE 5
Quote
There's a ton of people who would disagree with that statement. We've now got an overabundance of wolves in Montana. It started out as a few wolves here and there, and now we have hundreds if not thousands.
One of the real reasons why horses aren't worth much now is because the federal government has shut down the horse slaughter buisness. If you have an old horse, or one that is lame, it's hard to even give them away. When the canneries were open you could sell a canner horse for hundreds of dollars.
I love horses as much as anyone. I don't think I could sell any of my horses as a canner. At the same time, I still wish the canneries were open....
Montana is a "seed state" for wolves along with Idaho and Wyoming...According to the same BLM newsletter I was looking at last night, you've got around 1500 wolves in all of Montana. We have around 200 in all of Utah.
I too, wish we still had canneries. We call em' glue factories here, but they're really dogfood houses that sell the hooves for gelatin. it's definitely had an impact here. I'm mostly out of horses now, just a couple mountain nags, but they'll be too old soon enough.
Here in Texas, it seems that horse theft rose when the horse-slaughter houses were in 'high gear'. Many good, high-dollar horses were stolen and found at the slaughter houses by inspectors. It probably wouldn't be so bad if it was just old and sick horses. There are of course, pros and cons to just about anything.
The wolf situation has been an old, old problem up in your country, as I understand it. It probably wouldn't be so bad if, the wolves only picked on the old and sick animals.
Chuck
The wolf situation has been an old, old problem up in your country, as I understand it. It probably wouldn't be so bad if, the wolves only picked on the old and sick animals.
Chuck
billvon 3,173
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
>We've now got an overabundance of wolves in Montana.
Yep. They take down all the prey they can, and the prey thins out. The wolves die off. Prey comes back. They come back. It's been working that way for a few million years now. On small islands with only one predator and one species of prey, the two make a pretty good out of phase sine wave. It's how the natural world works.
Yep. They take down all the prey they can, and the prey thins out. The wolves die off. Prey comes back. They come back. It's been working that way for a few million years now. On small islands with only one predator and one species of prey, the two make a pretty good out of phase sine wave. It's how the natural world works.
steve1 5
QuoteHere in Texas, it seems that horse theft rose when the horse-slaughter houses were in 'high gear'. Many good, high-dollar horses were stolen and found at the slaughter houses by inspectors. It probably wouldn't be so bad if it was just old and sick horses. There are of course, pros and cons to just about anything.
Chuck
.......................................................................
I worry about my horses. Only one of them has a brand on it. I'd hate to have them get loose, and end up in someone else's pasture. I'm looking into freeze branding them, soon. I guess I don't have to worry much about the canneries any more, but there are still horse and cattle thieves out there.
Why are people worried about canneries .. those small little birds couldn't hurt anyone
Tweet... Tweet
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
Tweet... Tweet
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
steve1 5
Quote>
Yep. They take down all the prey they can, and the prey thins out. The wolves die off. Prey comes back. They come back. It's been working that way for a few million years now. On small islands with only one predator and one species of prey, the two make a pretty good out of phase sine wave. It's how the natural world works.
....................................................................
This is very true. I wonder though if we live in a natural world any more. Man has overpopulated himself to the point, that things are indeed out of balance.
Wildlife no longer has the natural range it once had. Many species without proper management are on the verge of extinction.
This natural system of survival won't work very well, if we want to preserve a species that truly is endangered.
I can think of one species of mountain sheep that was being destroyed by mountain lion. There were only about 50 left, living in one paraticular area. The Fish and Game went in and thinned out the mountain lion numbers. This give the sheep population a chance. If they hadn't, that species of mountain sheep would be gone.
When I was a kid there were a ton of cutthroat trout in many lakes and streams in Western Montana. That isn't the case now. These fish are being eaten by other species. Possibly even cut throat trout will be gone too, without proper management.
Wolves were once extinct in Montana, and other states. With proper management they have made a huge come back. They are now killing cattle, sheep, horses, dogs, cats, and about anything else they can get ahold of. It's time the federal government stepped out of the picture and let the state manage them through hunting.
Hunting is a great management tool.
Allowing only animals and disease to manage wildlife, in today's world, is a poor choice in my opinion.....
I don't blame you! I have a good friend who is an investigator for the Texas Cattle Raisers Assoc., who told me of a high-dollar cutting horse that was next in line on the killing floor when the inspector there caught it. That horse had a freeze-brand on the left hip. The horse was saved and the theieves were caught and now, are slow dancin' with the big boys at Huntsville. I've got my horse freeze-branded and I believe it to be a real deterrant to any horse thieves.
I had my horse branded through Texas Cattle Raisers Assoc. and I think, if, memory serves me right I paid $5.00 for it. Cheap insurance!
Chuck
I had my horse branded through Texas Cattle Raisers Assoc. and I think, if, memory serves me right I paid $5.00 for it. Cheap insurance!
Chuck
I respectfully disagree. I'm a land owner of some of the so-called wild horse land. And live near the largest free-roaming wild horse herd in the USA on the Skull Valley, Cedar Mountain and Onaqui ranges. Drought and human interference has weakened the herd, as has predator deprivation hunting (think Sarah Palin and shooting wolves from airplanes). We need more coyotes and wolves...
I've purchased a couple of wild mustangs from the BLM auctions, they're decent, but not good horses and are prone to a lot of disease and expensive vet bills. Anyone who asks me, I tell em that if they want a pet horse, a mustang isn't for them. Mustangs are more a way of life (think "living in a trailer on the DZ vs skydving for fun).
Either taxpayers fund them being kept in the border areas (as relates to around here) by paying for hay and seeding of grama or western wheatgrass (killed off by long drought), herding them with helicopters to more friendly range, penning/corraling/auctioning them, or putting them down. Which do you think is most amenable to Joe Taxpayer? Someone "adopts" a mustang for around 150.00, but that horse has cost Joe Taxpayer twice that in 3 years of "free-range."
Most of the land on which wild horses roam is not fit for range cattle, which are currently only profitable at around 1.5 head unit per acre. Cattle won't eat cheatgrass, which is what most horse land is covered in. It takes a LOT more land than that to feed a beef cow, and three times more to feed a beef cow and calf. In other words, 3 acres might support a horse, but it takes nearly 20 to support a cow/calf unit. There is zero crop value and next to zero dirt/land value to the property you suggest the government is leasing out. No one wants it, least of all Joe Taxpayer.
For giggles, just dug up a recent BLM newsletter that says they have a "budget to maintain not more than 375 head." This is 50 head more than it was 8 years ago. The herd is now estimated at more than 700. Utah alone has more than 3000 free-range horses. No one knows how many, but a good portion of the herd is feral, not wild. There are a lot of ranches in this area, and losing a horse isn't at all uncommon. In todays economy and horses sold for glue not being worth more than 100.00, it's generally easier and cheaper to drive an hour out of most any central city and let a horse go. Current horse disposal cost in Utah is 250.00 plus a 90.00 euthanization fee. I imagine it's about the same nationwide.
No land on the border of Nevada/Utah is much different nor being leased any different today than it was 100 years ago, and in some cases, lands that were tied up in school trusts on the Nevada side have been turned back to the Fed, who promptly tore down fences due to the liability of horses, cattle, ATVs getting caught in them!
Let Ms. Pickens pay for em. As long as it's not me...
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites