swilson 0 #1 November 17, 2008 Not sure if this belongs here or in Bonfire, but seeing as it has to do with guns... With the seemingly increasing pirate activity around Africa, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7733482.stm why is it that these ships are not armed well enough to repel pirate attacks? I would think that a few well placed 20mm guns would be able to at least make them think twice about hijacking a ship. Are there International Maritime laws against carrying defensive weapons on board, even given the current climate? I realize that you will need people trained in their use and maintenance on the crew, but surely that inconvenience far outweighs the inconvenience of being held for ransom... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #2 November 17, 2008 trying to pirate an oil tanker seems silly - it's not like you can hide the thing. Seems just a matter of time before bigger warships come along to fix the problem. Arming ships seems to increase the chance that the takeover could result in damage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #3 November 17, 2008 Quotetrying to pirate an oil tanker seems silly... Not if what you really want is the trained crew, who have company ransom insurance. The crew hides dead easy, and the nice thing about loaded tankers is that no-one's going to put SAS or similar on it. All that remains is for the local cops where you operate from to be paid off and it's pretty easy money. Especially since modern First / Second World warships no longer have yardarms to hang you from. Historically, the only way pircay was suppressed is for the intervening navies to be more brutal than the pirates, but that can't really happen today. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #4 November 17, 2008 Hey at least they only hijack a ship full of oil ...... not a whole country (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
guppie01 0 #5 November 17, 2008 Logically it makes perfect sense to arm the crew... however crew members can/do go a bit crazy on board. I've had to board several vessels in Los Angeles where crew members have lost it; threatened to kill the captain, thrown all passports and legal documents overboard, stabbed each other with kitchen knives etc. Crew members are taught to use the water canons on board as a means of defense against pirates. Companies can also pay for armed escort vessels through high risk shipping lanes. The escort vessels are expensive and most companies opt not to pay. g"Let's do something romantic this Saturday... how bout we bust out the restraints?" Raddest Ho this side of Jersey #1 - MISS YOU OMG, is she okay? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #6 November 17, 2008 They need "The Chef" - Steve Seagul [sic] (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #7 November 17, 2008 QuoteLogically it makes perfect sense to arm the crew... It really doesn't make any sense. The pirates are generally armed with AK47s & RPG7s or similar. We're looking at ships carrying something like 20mm cannon and the crew having assault rifles & sidearms to be effective. There is the expense of training, and weapon security Vs accessibility. Bear in mind that the current areas where piracy is common just now are VERY near countries which are officially paranoid about armed persons & ships in and around their waters. Because of this, patrols by warships are the only feasible answer... Although perhaps a Q-Ship or two may have interesting effects? Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
guppie01 0 #8 November 17, 2008 Quote Quote Logically it makes perfect sense to arm the crew... It really doesn't make any sense. The pirates are generally armed with AK47s & RPG7s or similar. We're looking at ships carrying something like 20mm cannon and the crew having assault rifles & sidearms to be effective. There is the expense of training, and weapon security Vs accessibility. Bear in mind that the current areas where piracy is common just now are VERY near countries which are officially paranoid about armed persons & ships in and around their waters. Because of this, patrols by warships are the only feasible answer... Although perhaps a Q-Ship or two may have interesting effects? Mike. I meant that from a general perspective - someone who is not familiar with the international shipping industry - I guess the rest of my post did not present a good enough reasoning why they should NOT be armed.... g"Let's do something romantic this Saturday... how bout we bust out the restraints?" Raddest Ho this side of Jersey #1 - MISS YOU OMG, is she okay? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #9 November 17, 2008 QuoteNot sure if this belongs here or in Bonfire, but seeing as it has to do with guns... With the seemingly increasing pirate activity around Africa, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7733482.stm why is it that these ships are not armed well enough to repel pirate attacks? I would think that a few well placed 20mm guns would be able to at least make them think twice about hijacking a ship. Are there International Maritime laws against carrying defensive weapons on board, even given the current climate? I realize that you will need people trained in their use and maintenance on the crew, but surely that inconvenience far outweighs the inconvenience of being held for ransom... Just last Friday I had dinner with a rear-admiral and he was saying just how strange it was that in the 21st Century a major activity of the US Navy is dealing with pirates.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #10 November 18, 2008 Would the merchant vessels be allowed to dock in port (to offload their actual cargo) while armed like that?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #11 November 18, 2008 The history of the US is intertwined with fighting pirate activity (or conducting pirate activity on our enemies). Do you know the Marine's Hymn? Know the lyric "To the shores of Tripoli[?]" Do you know the history there? I'm going to cheat and link a Wikipedia page to get you up to speed. The short answer is that the war was due to extreme Muslims and pirates. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #12 November 18, 2008 It took US leadership to thwart the Barbary pirates in the nascent stages of the republic. It will probably take US leadership again to thwart these bastards. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #13 November 18, 2008 QuoteHistorically, the only way pircay was suppressed is for the intervening navies to be more brutal than the pirates... Like this: Britain's Ministry of Defense revealed that a small vessel, suspected of being involved in an attempted hijacking of a Danish cargo ship, was intercepted in the Gulf of Aden. Crews launched from the HMS Cumberland exchanged fire with the boat, which was believed to be Yemeni, before they boarded the craft. "Two foreign nationals, believed to be Somali pirates, were shot and killed in self-defense"...http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,451311,00.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #14 November 18, 2008 QuoteQuoteHistorically, the only way pircay was suppressed is for the intervening navies to be more brutal than the pirates... Like this: Britain's Ministry of Defense revealed that a small vessel, suspected of being involved in an attempted hijacking of a Danish cargo ship, was intercepted in the Gulf of Aden. Crews launched from the HMS Cumberland exchanged fire with the boat...Somali pirates, were shot and killed in self-defense"...http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,451311,00.html Yes. This was part of a joint NATO-Russian maritime patrol to suppress piracy. Here's some background if you're interested: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7650415.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7623329.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7358764.stm In all, it's a nice little earner where ideally no-one gets harmed. Mike. Edited to add: Perhaps we should stop calling it Piracy and change the name to "Targeted International Aid to Entrepeneurs"? Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #15 November 18, 2008 QuoteHistorically, the only way pircay was suppressed is for the intervening navies to be more brutal than the pirates, but that can't really happen today. I just finished reading the history of piracy in the Caribbean. There it was largely govt sanctioned privateering. Eventually, the govts signed treaties and the pirates became outlaws without operating bases. The African pirates do not pick a side. They are opportunists. The previous solution was to initially pay "tribute" for safe passage, followed by a blockade and suppression. It seems like the richest people in the area would not be difficult to find. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swilson 0 #16 November 18, 2008 QuoteWould the merchant vessels be allowed to dock in port (to offload their actual cargo) while armed like that? I actually know very little about maritime shipping, hence the question as to whether laws prevented such a thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #17 November 18, 2008 Maybe this will help stop global warming. Everyone knows that the decline in pirates is a major cause of global warming. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #18 November 18, 2008 Quote Maybe this will help stop global warming. Everyone knows that the decline in pirates is a major cause of global warming. The biggest problem is that the balance of power between pirates and ninjas has swayed towards the pirates over the last 200 years. We need more ninjas to bring balance back to the world. Visual aid to assist in my presentation: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/225/467341808_9f8b7ab675.jpg?v=0 --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #19 November 18, 2008 lol nice shirt! www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #20 November 19, 2008 We should ban parrots and peg-legs and eye-patches. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #21 November 19, 2008 QuoteWe should ban parrots and peg-legs and eye-patches. ...as well as the letter R Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #22 November 19, 2008 Quote Quote We should ban parrots and peg-legs and eye-patches. ...as well as the letter R And then what the hell are we supposed to do come Talk Like A Pirate Day!!?Think before you post. Please. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #23 November 19, 2008 Quote And then what the hell are we supposed to do come Talk Like A Pirate Day!!?Think before you post. Please. aye, matey, 'tis true and clear from stem to stern, me says ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #24 November 20, 2008 I dont understand why these Somali assholes can't just be blown out of the water by an F-18. I think if enough got fucked up they would cool it. It seems since Somalia is going extreme Islam ( they just stoned a 13 year old girl to death) That the profits from Piracy mite come back to hurt us, so we have every right to fuck them up, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #25 November 20, 2008 QuoteI dont understand why these Somali assholes can't just be blown out of the water by an F-18. I think if enough got fucked up they would cool it. Because then everyone would rant and rave about how evil America is for picking on third-world countries and getting involved in foreign affairs that are none of our business. I say let the pirates do what they want. And if the rest of the world wants to do something about, let them step up to the plate and be the bad guy. It's time for them to learn what a world without a super-cop is going to be like. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
