universal health insurance

[Zee 0]

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And by the way, it's not their excellent health care that lends itself to Swedes outliving Americans by three years, it's their Diet.

There's always an excuse for poor performance by the USA, whether it be homicides or healthcare.

WTF is that supposed to mean? I take it you haven't noticed our morbidly obese population in this country? McDonald's kills far more people with their food than those scary "Assault Weapons" you're always bitching about.

Why don't you organize a ban on fast food? That would save far more people from certain death than any gun ban in history.

Action©Sports

[riddler 0]

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Divide those two and you get a number, but you still don't have an effective measure of comparison between two different systems. The money isn't being spent on identical populations.

These statistics come from the World Health Organization (WHO Statistical Information System (WHOSIS):

http://www.who.int/whosis/en/

The nature of the data can be questioned by anyone that doesn't want to believe it, but it's the best data we have available.

Back to the schoolkid that failed the exam - "but the other kids cheated!"

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[kallend 2,148]

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And by the way, it's not their excellent health care that lends itself to Swedes outliving Americans by three years, it's their Diet.

There's always an excuse for poor performance by the USA, whether it be homicides or healthcare.

WTF is that supposed to mean? I take it you haven't noticed our morbidly obese population in this country? McDonald's kills far more people with their food than those scary "Assault Weapons" you're always bitching about.

Why don't you organize a ban on fast food? That would save far more people from certain death than any gun ban in history.

Is someone proposing a gun ban? Or is this yet ANOTHER strawman?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Divide those two and you get a number, but you still don't have an effective measure of comparison between two different systems. The money isn't being spent on identical populations.

These statistics come from the World Health Organization (WHO Statistical Information System (WHOSIS):

http://www.who.int/whosis/en/

The nature of the data can be questioned by anyone that doesn't want to believe it, but it's the best data we have available.

Back to the schoolkid that failed the exam - "but the other kids cheated!"

Did you stay down too long?

The best data available still doesn't show the cause, just the effects.

You could spend 3 times as much money in health care for workers at a coal mine, and their indicators are still going to look like crap.

Does the WHO account for the longer hours, lower vacation allowance, poorer exercise rate, and awful fast food culture? We're less healthy in this country because we choose to be, not because our expensive health care system is failing us. We are failing ourselves.

[lawrocket 3]

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You still have not addressed what happens to people who cannot afford or cannot get health insurance .. thrown on out the door of hospitals.

Bullshit! IT hasn't been like that since 1986 when EMTALA passed.

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Watch SICKO many examples.

No. I prefer to read "Romeo and Juliet" instead of watching "West Side Story." I prefer to look at the DATA as opposed to a snake-oil saleman making a fortune off of a work "based on a true story."

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What about the poor soul who sawed his finger off 6000 dollars to pay. In Australia free immediate fix with a top neuro surgeon in a public hospital.

Sawed his finger off? Instead of dropping $6k? Interesting that he would rather do that, I wouldn't, but that's just me.

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Re OK its not free ... it is for people who do not earn enough to pay the medicare levy.

Oh! So it's up to everyone else to support them. I get it.

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Once you reach around $45000 per year you pay a levy. SO IT IS FREE FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.

Oh! I get it. People making MORE than that get to cover the others. I offer it as a benefit to my employees. If they don't do good work, they're gone. At least your system ensures that they don't have to worry about showing they are worthless.

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RE YOU COULD GET A BLADDER TEST TOMMORROW IF YOU WANTED ONE So can I and pay around $100 if I so desired.

And you waited a month??? What the fuck kinda society has given you the idea that not fixing a problem when it happens is a good thing? I get an abnormal EKG and I get myself onto a treamill pronto. Had that bladder issue been something that killed you quickly imagine how many people wouldn't have you supporting them. What a shame for your society that would have been.

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RE IF THE GOVERNMENT REALLY CARED ABOUT YOUR HEALTH WHY DID I HAVE TO WAIT Simple we do not have unlimited resources here so things not considered urgent (decision made by doctor not govt official) take a litle while longer

Amazingly, I don't have to rely on the resources of others. That visit with the cardiologist cost me four fucking kegs of Firestone. I don't have unlimited resources. So I chose to direct them toward seeing whether or not I can expect a heart attack. I overreacted, and I paid for it. Good thing peace of mind is priceless to me. Sure, you can put up with a burning sensation when you urinate for a month, but I tend to think of my dick as worthy of special consideration.

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So what ! it gets done unlike the poor USA citizen who cannot get health insurance.

Bullshit. ANYONE can go to an ER and get treated. EMTALA. I wonder if Moore pointed out that law that prevents patient dumping. I haven't seen the film, but I'll bet that he skipped it, thus to further advance omitting a full story.

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re spending the 3 trillion a year The defence budget would take a fair whack of that

Yeah. It'd only be 2.5 trillion. A pittance.

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and yeah you have some good social programs so why not universal health care..

Ah! There we go. Shit. Why not give 100k for each citizen?

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because the insurance lobby is afraid they will loose money thats why.

And I am afraid that a problem with my dick will go untreated for a month unless I am given the opportunity to say, "My dick is more important that beer. Resources should be directed towards its good health." Instead of some bureacrat telling me that One-Eye is gonna have to wait on a trip to the optometrist. It ain't important. (FUCK YOU! NOTHING IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN MY DICK!)

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if universal health care is good enough for the rest of the civilised world why not the USA.

BEcause we like being individuals. We do things differently, which is why we could send a GPS guided bomb right up your asshole from a stealth fighter. Y'all may be content with what you do, but we prefer to kick fuckin ass. You go on vacation, we go to the moon. Sure, we could sit on our collective thumbs and walk on our elbows, but while your trying to jerk off with a malfunctioning dick (it should be treated in a month) we're content fucking your unsatisfied women. We walk taller, spit further and fuck longer because that's what Americans do - we compete at shit like that. You may find it useless. But that's that way we are.

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RE THE 9 PERCENT SUPERANNUATION SO THAT IS TAKEN OFF YOUR SALARY Actually no its not .. the employer pays an addittional 9 per cent into your super fund on top of your salary.

Gee. Imagine what you could do with an extra $6k per year? Nope. You don't get it. The Government does. You are working a 69k job for 63k. Americans would say, "Fuck that."

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Beginning to sound pretty good I is it not ?

No. Anytime the function and comfort of my dick must wait a month, it sounds very, very bad. Perhaps Ozzy dicks are not important. Perhaps they just aren't needed or expected to perform. American men take pride in our dicks, and our women demand that they function appropriately.

Any place where dicks are put on a waiting list is no place I EVER want to be.

We get all the cable USA news over here so I do know a lot about your system Do not get me started about Fox news Fair and Balanced My ARSE !!! or as you would say My ASS !!!!

As stated I like Amercians and alot of the culture and entertainment (thanks for that) its just the political system that is different. (Your right of course) Enjoying the debates thanks Greg

ps we get a laugh over here about Fanny May (the company gone broke) Over here Fannie means a female sexual organ where over there its just a rear end. Good luck

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Zee 0]

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Is someone proposing a gun ban? Or is this yet ANOTHER strawman?

I just answered the question about why Swedes outlive Americans by 3 years and you started crying that there is always an excuse for Americas poor performance. You're the one that brought up homicides, not me.

Sometimes the truth hurts. Deal with it.

Action©Sports

[FallingOsh 0]

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Is someone proposing a gun ban? Or is this yet ANOTHER strawman?

I just answered the question about why Swedes outlive Americans by 3 years and you started crying that there is always an excuse for Americas poor performance. You're the one that brought up homicides, not me.

Sometimes the truth hurts. Deal with it.

Yes, but your answer implied we should be responsible for ourselves and that's a no-no around here.

--------------------------------------------------
Stay positive and love your life.

[Zee 0]

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Yes, but your answer implied we should be responsible for ourselves and that's a no-no around here.

Yeah, I know. It's still a pretty sad reality though.

Action©Sports

[mnealtx 0]

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And by the way, it's not their excellent health care that lends itself to Swedes outliving Americans by three years, it's their Diet.

There's always an excuse for poor performance by the USA, whether it be homicides or healthcare.

Oh, you mean like blaming homicides on guns and health on lack of insurance?

So you admit the USA performs poorly in these areas. Progress!

No, that's YOUR gig - just pointing out the hypocrisy.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 2,148]

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Why don't you organize a ban on fast food? That would save far more people from certain death than any gun ban in history.

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Is someone proposing a gun ban? Or is this yet ANOTHER strawman?

I just answered the question about why Swedes outlive Americans by 3 years and you started crying that there is always an excuse for Americas poor performance. You're the one that brought up homicides, not me.

You, ZEE, brought up the gun ban.

Why won't you tell us who is proposing the gun ban? Can't find a link?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Zee 0]

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You, ZEE, brought up the gun ban.

Why won't you tell us who is proposing the gun ban? Can't find a link?

And you brought up homicides. Why can't you just discuss the actual subject without trying to divert everyone's attention from it?

Action©Sports

[pirana 0]

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Well, my wife worked for a chiropractor group (of 2 chiropractors) which had one person full-time submitting claims to insurance companies. I also had a neighbor that worked for a health-clinic (about 5 doctors) where it was her full time job. Maybe they're liars, but as I actually know them, and you do not, I doubt it.

Here's a survey from 2006 that says 75% of claims are submitted electronically, which is pretty good, but a far cry from "almost all":

http://www.ahip.org/content/pressrelease.aspx?docid=16454

With regard to by "total lack of knowledge", I am definitely not an expert on health claim submissions. That is why I cite references - those references say something completely different than what you're saying, but you haven't really proven anything except that you're passionate about the subject.

They are either using an archaic system (wasting their's and the insurance companies resources) or they have their boss snowed. No way 2 chiros can treat enough people in a day to keep a person submitting claims busy full-time. Submitting for 5 docs, and not using electronic, that might be full time. But like I said, using electronic submissions, anything more than a minute is dillydallying. It's basically data entry, drop down menus, and plenty of pre-populated fields.

Most of the review and reject activity is for stupid human error, not because of abuse or intent to defraud. Simple stuff like name, ID, etc. And with electronic submission it is difficult to even make those errors because the claim cannot be submitted without valid field entries.

I am somewhat passionate about health care financing, but far more objective and critical than passionate. I did check a couple of the other links; very biased and bogus. The stuff about claims submission posted on the autism site - a load of BS that would might impress people unfamiliar with the business. It would be the equivalent of sensationalizing the horrors of finding the right oil filter for a car:

1 - Determine the year, make, model, and engine in the vehicle - VERY CONFUSING.

2 - Look up the part number in the book - OH THE HORROR.

3 - Go to the shelf and get one - THIS IS ASKING TOO MUCH.

Their claims about the difficulty of coding are BS. The proper ICD-9 for a patient's given diagnosis does not vary based on insurance company or benefit plan. Their claiming so makes me think they are manipulating the system by using codes they think will generate the most payment. Just use the correct codes instead of trying to game the system. And yes, when they are trying to game the system, it will be detected and those claims will kick out for manual review at a much higher rate than average.

It's claims submission, it's their job. Get good at it or find something easier to do. It only becomes challenging when they try to manipulate things instead of just putting the correct information in the right boxes.

75% electronic is a pretty low number. MN is over 90%, but then we are out front on this stuff. Anybody still using paper is part of the problem. One of the smartest initiatives the new administration could take up is getting the holdouts up to snuff electronic-wise. Maybe a handling fee for the paper holdouts; making them pick up part of the additional expense they are adding to the system.

I don't cite references because I am the source. Don't mean that to express conceit; but my information is from direct experience and actual hands on access. I've consulted in damn near every facet of this business - service operations; IVR/VFR; claims, membership & billing; provider contracting; web design; on-line applications; marketing & sales. . . you name it. (I've never done underwriting, but am very familiar with the process).

BTW - At the chiro I used to go to, claims submission (electrinic of course) was something the receptionist did in between greeting patients, collecting copays, and scheduling appointments for the 2 or 3 chiros on site at any one time. It really is that easy for the right person with the right tools.

Apologies for the longwindedness - but people that aren't interested won't read anyway.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Andy9o8 2]

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I just answered the question about why Swedes outlive Americans by 3 years

Perhaps the Nordic/Aryan breed is superior.

Oh, wait - that's been done. Never mind.

[kallend 2,148]

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You, ZEE, brought up the gun ban.

Why won't you tell us who is proposing the gun ban? Can't find a link?

And you brought up homicides. Why can't you just discuss the actual subject without trying to divert everyone's attention from it?

I take that as an admission that you can't find anyone here proposing a gun ban. Cool! Thanks.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,148]

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Is someone proposing a gun ban? Or is this yet ANOTHER strawman?

I just answered the question about why Swedes outlive Americans by 3 years .

No, you didn't. You just threw out a wild suggestion with zero supporting data to back it up.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Zee 0]

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You, ZEE, brought up the gun ban.

Why won't you tell us who is proposing the gun ban? Can't find a link?

And you brought up homicides. Why can't you just discuss the actual subject without trying to divert everyone's attention from it?

I take that as an admission that you can't find anyone here proposing a gun ban. Cool! Thanks.

Where did I say that anyone here proposed a gun ban?

Action©Sports

[Zee 0]

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Is someone proposing a gun ban? Or is this yet ANOTHER strawman?

I just answered the question about why Swedes outlive Americans by 3 years .

No, you didn't. You just threw out a wild suggestion with zero supporting data to back it up.

Sorry, I've lived there and dealt with their health care system first hand. Have you?

Action©Sports

[Ion01 2]

there is a reason that people travel from all over the world to america for medical treatment. Thats because the vast majority of the world has goverment run medicare and it doesn't work near as well as privitized medicare.

[Andy9o8 2]

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there is a reason that people travel from all over the world to america for medical treatment. Thats because the vast majority of the world has goverment run medicare and it doesn't work near as well as privitized medicare.

Nope. It's because we've got the best foreign doctors in the world.

[pirana 0]

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It seems to be coming from the perspective of a private practice doc, or a very small operation. That is a very rare thing these days, at least in this part of the country.

It depends a lot on where you are.

Plus, one of the reasons that solo and small group practices are disappearing is because of the need to share overhead when retaining big support staffs.

Regardless, it's a bona fide fact that a very large percentage of doctors in the USA today are unhappy in their work, and would change professions if they could. My wife (who is a doctor) looked at that article, kind of shrugged, and said "that's news?"

One of the reasons that GP's are less happy is probably pay. All the "overpaid" doctors you hear about are specialists (mostly surgeons), and even then I'd argue that they are often not really overpaid.

GP's are often making salaries in the low 100's or less, but having to service huge debts from years of medical school. If you average out lifetime earnings for a typical pediatrician, and assume a modest savings rate, they'll typically make less than someone in a skilled trade (carpenters or plumbers, for example) over their lifetime.

It's not just the support staff; it's the scale of everything. A one or 2 doc office is simply not a viable business to be in. Gone the way of the neighborhood grocer and small automaker.

This country at one time had over 150 automakers, and that was only 60 or 70 years ago. Aside from the issue that we may soon have none, it simply proved to be a business that could not operate below a certain scale.

Hard to believe that any doc would try to operate solo these days. Like the house call, it's something they could do; but the premium for such a luxury service is something the patient needs to bear personally.

Same thing can be expected to happen to hospitals in the near future. Capacity is ridiculously high. The economics of having six hospitals with full MRI capacity in a metro area that could get by with 2 MRI machines will eventually force contraction. Many areas are already seeing the mobile units instead of every clinic spending millions for the prestige of owning one.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[gregpso 1]

well raise taxation to pay for the programms and pay your way rather than leaving a massive budget deficit to your kids ! THE USA IS BORROWING A STACK OF MONEY OFF COMMUNIST CHINA UNBELIEVEABLE (to pay for the bailout of capitalism (what a bloody joke but I am not laughing) What happerns when China and the saudis want their money back. In a few years you will be caught up with militarily by China ( see their space programme) Then the whole free worls is in trouble.

I tend to be a bit different. enjoyed my time in the sport or is it an industry these days ??

[pirana 0]

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And by the way, it's not their excellent health care that lends itself to Swedes outliving Americans by three years, it's their Diet.

There's always an excuse for poor performance by the USA, whether it be homicides or healthcare.

WTF is that supposed to mean? I take it you haven't noticed our morbidly obese population in this country? McDonald's kills far more people with their food than those scary "Assault Weapons" you're always bitching about.

Why don't you organize a ban on fast food? That would save far more people from certain death than any gun ban in history.

Is someone proposing a gun ban? Or is this yet ANOTHER strawman?

I think we combine efforts. Ban assault rifles for any purpose other than picking off obese people slogging their way thru their 4th value meal of the day.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[gregpso 1]

Michael Moore now there is a true Amercian telling the AWFUL TRUTH I know a lot of you would not like to hear what Moore says facts are facts Doctors who work for health insurance companies (the compay not the ones treating patients in other words desk dwellers get paid more for denying claims and saving the company money BIG BONUS,S

Yeah spent a month in the USA had to buy a huge amount of health insurance ($500 000) coverage because was warned about the outrageous cost there

I tend to be a bit different. enjoyed my time in the sport or is it an industry these days ??

[pirana 0]

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there is a reason that people travel from all over the world to america for medical treatment. Thats because the vast majority of the world has goverment run medicare and it doesn't work near as well as privitized medicare.

Nothing speaks like results.

Don't see a lot of Kings and Pesidents and Shieks and other various rich-people types heading to Laos to get that prostrate cancer treated do we?

They go to Mayo, and other notable US clinics because it is the best care in the world, period.

Affordability, that is different. Access, also a problem. The long term solution is universal care. The thorny part is that so many people think that means everybody gets free access to whatever they desire.

No, we are not perfect at affordability or access; but we have a very decent system. Most have access, and there are safety nets that provide at least a certain minimal level of care for those who can not afford care.

Lots of room to improve, but it ain't goinna happen until we solve the bottom line cost of medical care issue.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Zee 0]

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Michael Moore now there is a true Amercian telling the AWFUL TRUTH

Dude, it's not an awful truth. It's an awful deception. He's selectively picking out very specific examples of what can and does go wrong within our system. Nobody said it's perfect because it's not. Far from it. But, it's by no means representative of our health care system as a whole.

Or don't you think we can find equally reprehensible cases within the socialist healthcare systems?[email]

Did you ever notice that Michael Moore never shared any examples from personal experience? Wonder if he travels to Canada when he needs to see a doctor?

Action©Sports