klingeme 1
DaGimp 0
QuoteBut crediting the win to some people who voted for Obama simply because of his race (ignoring the fact that some voted against him for the same reason) is disingenuous.
Me personally, im not crediting his win Solely to this fact, nor am i saying people didnt vote for MaCain for the very same reason, I was just stating that it clearly played a factor in his win.
I grew up in the getto, in the projects, I grew up not having a single white friend, all my friends were black, and you know what the mentallity was in my community, survival, whats the best way to survive in a community like that, get one of your own in charge.
Im not saying hes not the better man for the job, just saying what helped him swing the win. Not that his hard work and campain trail didnt help either.
"Professor of Pimpology"~~~Bolas
Quote
Im not saying that ALL people voted fo rthis reson, yes some paid attention to the issues, some didnt want Palin in the White house.....but at least 30% of his votes...was for race...imo
They'll be evaluating the poll figures for quite a while and I'm sure that someone will put together a more comprehensive picture for us soon. But until then, from what I've seen/heard the biggest increase was in the under 30 and first time voter crowd. But being unable to nail it down to any particular demographic, IMO I think this quote from a NY Times article sums up the main factor for Obama's win:
Mr. McCain’s inability to separate himself from the Republican president — and Mr. Obama’s success in ceaselessly tying his rival to the unpopular president — was clearly a factor in the results.
The Republicans don't like Bush and neither do the Dems, Libertarians, Independents, Greens etc. It's no real surprise that Obama was able to use that to his advantage.
klingeme 1
QuoteQuoteI stand corrected, but the point still stands.
What's your point?
Travel that occured before you were 10 years old hardly makes you "travelled", and I know as an "adult" McCain was much more Travelled.
Quote
Do you honestly believe that 10% of white voters (the same as the spike in black voters) were biggoted enough to not vote for him because he was black?
No. And I didn't say that. I really don't know how to measure the influence of race so I don't try to. I can only say that I'm sure that some people, on each side, used race as their primary determinant. I'd like to think that number is as small as your <1% guess. Race certainly wasn't a factor in my decision at all. I just considered it a bonus.
klingeme 1
QuoteIMO I think this quote from a NY Times article sums up the main factor for Obama's win:
Mr. McCain’s inability to separate himself from the Republican president — and Mr. Obama’s success in ceaselessly tying his rival to the unpopular president — was clearly a factor in the results.
And if the Liberal media says it's true, it has to be.
nerdgirl 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteI stand corrected, but the point still stands.
What's your point?
Travel that occured before you were 10 years old hardly makes you "travelled", and I know as an "adult" McCain was much more Travelled.
I concur with the value of foreign travel. And I would concur that things that happened when one is a minor have different value than choices made as an adult.
Again, you may want to reconsider your assertion as Sen Obama’s foreign travel is far from limited to Indonesia when he was 7-10 and Iraq “a year ago”?
Sen Obama’s official overseas trips include, but are not limited to:
2005
Russia
Ukraine
Azerbaijan
Armenia
Turkey
United Kingdom (including meetings with then-PM Tony Blair)
2006
Qatar
Kuwait
Iraq
Jordan
Israel (including/additionally the Palestinian Territories)
South Africa
Democratic Republic of the Congo
Kenya
Djibouti
Chad
2008 (partial list)
France
Germany
Israel
Iraq
Afghanistan
Jordan
United Kingdom
While some dismiss it as ‘book-learning,’ his undergraduate degree is in Political Science with specialization in International Relations (Columbia doesn’t have a distinct, separate IR dept; very few universities do) and might also be considered to have some value w/r/t international affairs.
Heck, I can debate the value or _lack thereof_ of being able to speak “rational actor theory” vis a vis offense-defense balance and the arguments of Ken Waltz versus Peter Katzenstein for real-world policy … nonetheless some folks with operational experience do find value.
Alternatively, you could take the perspective that folks over at Free Republic did when they criticized him for his frequent travels. They thought he took too many foreign trips. Admittedly they are more critical of Sen Clinton.
VR/Marg
Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying
Quote\QuoteSadly, many in the Republican Base (not all Republicans, however) have a very parochial mindset.
These types of Republicans rarely or never travel outside our borders, except to go to war. They tend to view the outside world with suspicion. Getting along with foreigners is unimportant to them because they feel that foreign countries can not have our best interests in mind and in fact want to see us fail.
So in terms of foreign policy, forget about international respect and settle for fear.
Fortunately, some Republicans see the problem and reject the whole anti-intellectual, xenophobic mindset. Pat Buchanan has pointed out that the USA was "once the most admired country in the world," and we should try to figure out what has happened since then.
With the election of Obama, we are seeing the world's return to some of that admiration they used to have for us. But some in the Republican base feel that that is a bad thing, not a good thing.
Obama had not been to Iraq until about a year ago.
My comment (to which you replied) was meant to refer mostly to some members of the Republican Base (ie, some of the Republican voters), and not necessarily to the candidates themselves.
Speed Racer
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JerryBaumchen 1,468
Hi Speed,
My edit.
And when they do they eat at MacDonalds or Pizza Hut, stay in the local Hilton or Sheraton. Yea, real world travellers. Where do I go to puke,
JerryBaumchen
PS) I apologize for the sarcasm but I've travelled to Asia, South America, Australia, Europe and a whole bunch of North America and I've seen it. I'm all for enjoying the local flavors.
QuoteThese types of Americans rarely or never travel outside our borders,
My edit.
And when they do they eat at MacDonalds or Pizza Hut, stay in the local Hilton or Sheraton. Yea, real world travellers. Where do I go to puke,
JerryBaumchen
PS) I apologize for the sarcasm but I've travelled to Asia, South America, Australia, Europe and a whole bunch of North America and I've seen it. I'm all for enjoying the local flavors.
nerdgirl 0
Quote
QuoteThese types of Americans rarely or never travel outside our borders,
And when they do they eat at MacDonalds or Pizza Hut, ...
... maybe I'm one of 'those' types ...
I've been to MacDonald's on multiple continents: not for the food but for the higher probablility of finding a free, western-style toilet/WC.
One of the best views of the Sphinx and the Great Pyramind is from the 2nd floor of the Giza Pizza Hut. [Edit to add: link to a better picture.]
/Marg
Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying
I appreciate your objective opinion. I think that we and the rest of the world have some pleasant changes that are going to occur. Harry
Amazon 7
Can we please have your picture. I think it needs to be uploaded as the pictoral example of the word "erudite" in Wikipedia ( hint... there is no picture currently there.
Gawain 0
Quotepolitics is about negotiating things, about being "clever", not forcing your will to everyone that is weaker.. its not wise to piss europe off too, we are allies! imagine, the brits, the ozzies, the germans and whoelse decide one day to take all their soldiers out of iraq? dang, that would end up in a bloody mess for you..
Well, since the UK, Australia have already removed their forces from Iraq, and Germany has not placed theirs there, I don't have to imagine too hard. The UK is fighting in Afghanistan, which is more than can be said for most of the rest of NATO.
Europe has, too often in my observation, negotiated compromises with its own values. France and Spain, in particular, are vulnerable to the long term repercussions of this. Germany has found itself to be a primary obstacle to the road-maps for Ukraine and Georgia to align themselves with NATO.
Quotelook at the whole middle/far east: the place is on fire because america has pissed one to many off there. piss some more off and america will have to many wars to fight. how long do you think this will go on? if you dont care for your guys, fine, invade every country and you'll soon run out of soldiers..
The middle east and north Africa didn't just start to decline over the past 8 years. In fact, most of this stems from messes that were started more than three decades ago. Just because some have decided to stop fighting does not mean the fighting will stop. The US tried that too...multiple times, in multiple theaters. The US is not the only player in this.
So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
A lot of people are showing their true colors in this thread. In the two counties next to me, always repub. for a 100 yrs. This election they went blue. Even the whites voted for obama in majority. Says something to me. I couldn't vote. Fl. Didn't mail my absentee ballot. Imagine that. Didn't want another lib voting in Fl.QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote
95% of Black men and 96% of Black women voted for Obama, and Black people voted in record numbers. No it couldn't be about race for them.
No, it's about party affiliation for more than 40 years.
And the 10% swing this time? And the record turnout?
Swing and record turnout was not restricted to blacks. YOU are showing YOUR colors here, and they are not very attractive.
I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.
The Dems gained voters in EVERY demographic except the over 65 crowd. And the record turnout primarily had to do with the empowerment of younger voters and the complete disgust with the last two terms. If you want to ignore that and cherry pick the rationale for the win then so be it. But crediting the win to some people who voted for Obama simply because of his race (ignoring the fact that some voted against him for the same reason) is disingenuous.
Do you honestly believe that 10% of white voters (the same as the spike in black voters) were biggoted enough to not vote for him because he was black? I think it was not more like .5% or 1%, and it sickens me to think that 1 out of 100 or 200 could think this way.
My reasons against Obama mainly revolve around my reproductive rights beliefs, and the fact that I believe Raising taxes on businesses will only pass these costs directly onto their consumers and every penny that is given to the "middle Class" will be spent with higher cost products and people will lose their jobs as the cost of doing business is increased.
Personally, I would love it if the "glass ceiling" was shattered. Then we could judge people on their accomplishments (and years of service) rather than making a big deal about a female or a man of color running for president.