downwardspiral 0 #51 October 30, 2008 QuoteQuote>Not really. You aren't prevented from driving that car on a public road >until you are pulled over and caught for it. True. It's tough to buy a car without a license (partly for insurance reasons) but nothing stops you from just taking Dad's car and driving around on the freeway - until you get caught, that is. The last car I bought predated California's move to require proof of insurance as part of registration. Back then, I think the only time my license was shown was for the test drive. And I know people could buy a motorcycle without an M endorsement....though usually not a wise course of action. When I bought my bike back back in 02 I didn't have my m class endorsement. They wouldn't let me ride it off their lot so I made them deliver it.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,184 #52 October 30, 2008 Quote You can't LEGALLY buy the handgun without the HSC, and without multiple forms of residency proof (utility bills). . Plenty of illegal guns available, courtesy of the 300,000 plus careless legal gun owners who allow their weapons to be stolen every year.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #53 October 30, 2008 You could say that about people who have their rig stolen out of their car, home, dz etc.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #54 October 31, 2008 QuoteQuote You can't LEGALLY buy the handgun without the HSC, and without multiple forms of residency proof (utility bills). . Plenty of illegal guns available, courtesy of the 300,000 plus careless legal gun owners who allow their weapons to be stolen every year. You're off topic again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,184 #55 October 31, 2008 QuoteYou could say that about people who have their rig stolen out of their car, home, dz etc. Of those rigs were then used in robberies and homicides, yes I would.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,184 #56 October 31, 2008 Quote Quote Quote You can't LEGALLY buy the handgun without the HSC, and without multiple forms of residency proof (utility bills). . Plenty of illegal guns available, courtesy of the 300,000 plus careless legal gun owners who allow their weapons to be stolen every year. You're off topic again. Just fixing your error.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #57 October 31, 2008 QuoteWhen I bought my bike back back in 02 I didn't have my m class endorsement. They wouldn't let me ride it off their lot so I made them deliver it. that's really odd - 1 - it was your property at that point 2 - they aren't cops they shouldn't have been able to "not let" you ride it off I'd think their only legal action if you insisted would be to call the cops and report you as an illegal driver ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #58 October 31, 2008 It seems like you should be able to push it off the lot, if they're concerned about an unlicensed rider on their property. I've driven a couple bikes home for people, but only because they were nervous about taking it right to the freeway on the first couple miles. Me...I bought a Daytona after a weekend of jumping on a Sunday night in LA, then jumped on the freeway and went 450 miles to home. Bold and dumb...that's the way to go! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #59 October 31, 2008 I imagine they were afraid of liability. I was surprised they even bothered to ask. I was pretty bold and dumb too. I had very little experience on a motorcycle. Rode dirt bikes a little when I was a kid but absolutely no street experience. The night they delivered it I went riding around some neighborhoods for an hour and a half until I felt comfortable with shifting and braking. It really wasn't all that hard. Especially since my bike has no probelms starting off in 2nd gear. Anyhow I woke up the next morning and rode it 30 miles to work (Elsinore) on the freeway. Once I got off the freeway and was just around the corner from my work a dog decided to run out in the middle of the street. Oncoming traffic slams on it's brakes scaring the piss out of the dog causing it to run toward me. I had to slam on my brakes and being inexperienced I locked up the rear tire. It was fortunate because the squeal from the locked up tire caused the dog to look toward me and it was able to swerve and miss me. Hah I thought to myself....welcome to riding www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #60 October 31, 2008 Quote I had to slam on my brakes and being inexperienced I locked up the rear tire. given how little the rear contributes in hard braking, I don't think the newbies would suffer too badly if they just didn't use the rear early on. Everyone has one or two of these stories where they stood on the pedal and fishtailed. Fortunately, most of the time we get away with that one, just shit our pants when we briefly are facing the lane on the side of us, then momentum corrects. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #61 November 3, 2008 News:Woman kills man who returned to rape her second time An intended rape victim shot and killed her attacker this morning when he broke into her home to rape her a second time, police said. The 57-year-old woman shot Ronnie Preyer, 47, a registered sex offender, in the chest with a shotgun when he broke through her locked basement door. The woman told police he was the same man who raped her several days earlier. She was home alone about 2:15 a.m. when Preyer broke the same basement window. The victim was awake watching television, when Preyer switched off the electricity to her house. She tried to call 911, but couldn't because the power was off. She got a shotgun and waited as the man began banging on the basement door. She fired when Preyer came crashing through the door... Source: STL Today Darn those old people with guns - it shouldn't be allowed! She shoulda called 911 - oh wait, the phone was cut with the electricity. Well, she should just run out the door - oh wait, that's what got her raped the first time. Well, dang it, she shouldn't be allowed to have a gun anyway! There are nine people here who believe that this woman should have been raped a second time, rather than have that shotgun to defend herself - and they're right! A rape isn't as bad as a murder, and therefore she should have submitted to the rapist. Life is more important than chastity. Take her gun away from her! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #62 January 17, 2011 Quote My newspaper ran a short article yesterday which described a young 8 year old boy..... who accidentally KILLED himself at a "gun show" this past weekend in Mass..Apparently with his father at his side, and granting approval,,, an 'instructor' handed to this Little boy,, a small UZI semi-automatic weapon..... The boy pulled the trigger,,,,, and then overwhelmed by the kickback of this killing machine,,, lost control of it's aim,,, and while STILL firing the damn thing,,, somehow managed to allow it, to rise up in such a way,,, that he fatlly shot himself in the head!!! Damn....... what kind of gun show allows for the firing of LIVE ammo??? and what sort of father,, feels it is necessary for his 8 Year Old!!!!! to HANDLE such a weapon????... let alone,, FIRE it...Think we've gone a little too far?????.. with GUN rights????.. I DO !!!!!... Update: Gun fair organizer acquitted in boy's Uzi death A gun fair organizer was acquitted of manslaughter and other charges Friday in the 2008 death of an 8-year-old boy who accidentally shot himself in the head with an Uzi at a machine gun expo in western Massachusetts... Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/14/AR2011011404365.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #63 January 17, 2011 Quote Quote My newspaper ran a short article yesterday which described a young 8 year old boy..... who accidentally KILLED himself at a "gun show" this past weekend in Mass..Apparently with his father at his side, and granting approval,,, an 'instructor' handed to this Little boy,, a small UZI semi-automatic weapon..... The boy pulled the trigger,,,,, and then overwhelmed by the kickback of this killing machine,,, lost control of it's aim,,, and while STILL firing the damn thing,,, somehow managed to allow it, to rise up in such a way,,, that he fatlly shot himself in the head!!! Damn....... what kind of gun show allows for the firing of LIVE ammo??? and what sort of father,, feels it is necessary for his 8 Year Old!!!!! to HANDLE such a weapon????... let alone,, FIRE it...Think we've gone a little too far?????.. with GUN rights????.. I DO !!!!!... This is the kind of argument that really bothers me. I read the article. This was not a gun show. Gun shows do not allow loaded weapons. All weapons have devices to prevent them firing at all times. This child's father (an educated man) and a police chief failed to recognize the child did not have the strength or skill to handle a small automatic weapon. It was a tragedy in the making and ended predictably. This poster has misconstrued the facts and wishes to take away my rights because of someone else's errors and his own misinterpretations. Dangerous beyond description. People have abused their right to free speech and prompted terrorist actions. Perhaps we should limit this poster's first amendment rights?I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #64 January 17, 2011 JohnRich...this bump is timely and more than that corrects my earlier statement...and davjohns i retract the words from my post about "Gun show" I honestly believe that, those were the words used, in the 'newsflash' which brought this sad event to my attention... So i WAS wrong in that regard.. Also wrong i suppose, to accept that what i read, or hear or see in the news,, as true....... Misreporting is rampant...i should Know that. Never BEEN to a gun show, and am pleased to learn that loaded weapons are Not permitted.... Tell me then,,,, just what Were the circumstances of this occurence.. was it at shooting range? , a private residence ? a public location??? Your post here, mentions that the father, educated, (apparently Not ) and a Police chief, BOTH "failed to recognize"...the child did not have the strength"!!! say again??? I would know and You would know and most folks SHOULD know , NOT to give ANy automatic weapon to a Kid.. who is 100 % likely to squeeze the trigger , and not always when expected.... hell i wouldn't give it to an Adult.. nor would i take it into my own hands....It's a Dangerous item!!! So if this was the caliber of the supervision at this occurence,, gun show or otherwise.........i'm disappointed . It's a further sad statement as to the unpredictability of firearms in general. While You and others MAY have full and capable instincts and ability, when dealing with guns.... and i applaud you for it... wouldn't you admit, that there are lots of others out there,,, who Don't!!!! but think they do.....which is even worse. Relevant topic and I stand corrected regarding the details... but do not shy away from the intial tone of my earlier post, which is anger that a person died... jt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #65 January 18, 2011 According to the article, this was at a range. It was advertised as an opportunity for people to come experience fully automatic firearms. The child's father is mentioned as a medical doctor. Somehow, he, the Police Chief and anyone else around, failed to recognize that an eight year old should not be given an automatic weapon. In this case, it was a mini-uzi. That is a seriously small and light weapon. The recoil of the automatic fire makes it difficult for anyone without experience to handle. Giving it to an eight year old was ridiculous. Still, I have known of people giving alcohol to young children. People drink, drive and kill every day. Where is the outcry against alcohol? It is not constitutionally protected and serves no utilitarian purpose. Why is there no call to outlaw it? To require people to be trained in it's use before being allowed to drink? Why don't they have to keep it locked up so children can't reach it?I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #66 January 18, 2011 >Where is the outcry against alcohol? MADD, the Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse, the Center for Science in the Public Interest, the Marin Institute, the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation and the Women’s Christian Temperance Union are all groups who regularly lobby against alcohol. >Why is there no call to outlaw it? There is, and it was in fact outlawed. It was repealed when it didn't work, and when governments realized they really wanted those alcohol taxes. >Why don't they have to keep it locked up so children can't reach it? They do. If someone tries to adopt a child, the county will do a home survey and require that all alcohol is locked up before approving the home. Sites on childproofing regularly describe how to safeguard alcohol from children. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #67 January 18, 2011 we are absolutely ON the same page, here.... i do NOT know why we ( as a society ) have such a lax attitude about alcohol, and it potential BAD effects. Not sure if there are ANY good effects.I support the premise of M .A.D.D. both philosophically and financially. Change is slow...however, and our country stinks at prioritizing... jt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #68 January 18, 2011 You worked pretty hard to miss my point. I seem to recall something about prohibition. I'm an attorney. There were a couple of amendments to the US Constitution in there somewhere. There are no serious efforts to outlaw alcohol. There are no serious efforts to require people to become trained, licensed and have secure facilities before they can possess alcohol. Your very esoteric examples rather prove my point.I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,184 #69 January 18, 2011 Quote we are absolutely ON the same page, here.... i do NOT know why we ( as a society ) have such a lax attitude about alcohol, and it potential BAD effects. t We don't. We have pretty stringent laws on alcohol, age limits on who can buy, sell or possess, licensing of bars and liquor stores, DUI laws, etc. Good model for guns, right?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #70 January 18, 2011 Quote Quote we are absolutely ON the same page, here.... i do NOT know why we ( as a society ) have such a lax attitude about alcohol, and it potential BAD effects. t We don't. We have pretty stringent laws on alcohol, age limits on who can buy, sell or possess, licensing of bars and liquor stores, DUI laws, etc. Good model for guns, right? In California, there isn't a single law surrounding alcohol that comes close to those around guns. I don't wait 10 days to buy Guiness. Don't need to have a drinking safety card, one that expires every 5 years. Can't buy a gun from another individual. Has the same 21 yo requirement for handguns (Federal). etc etc. and let's not start on the constitutional differences here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #71 January 18, 2011 I don't really know about them buying guns but old people FOR SURE should not be able to drive in front of me! Get the hell out my way grandpa! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #72 February 1, 2011 QuoteWe have pretty stringent laws on alcohol, age limits on who can buy, sell or possess, licensing of bars and liquor stores, DUI laws, etc. Good model for guns, right? Sure and we already have all of those. Guns are MORE regulated than alcohol. Quote age limits on who can buy, 21 for alcohol 21 for pistols and 18 for long guns. Quotesell or possess Felons and known alcoholics can buy alcohol, they cannot buy a firearm. Straw purchases for both are illegal. Guns require a background check and in some places a waiting period, alcohol does not... Anywhere. Quotelicensing of bars and liquor stores FFL's have more restrictions than a bar. And EVERY buyer has to pass a background check. QuoteDUI laws There are more gun laws that alcohol laws. So for alcohol laws to be like gun laws: You would have to go to an alcohol dealer who would have you fill out a form. You would have to answer questions about your history and provide a valid ID. The dealer would then call the Govt and run a background check on you. In some places you would have to come back in 3-5 days to pick up your alcohol. In some places you could only transport your alcohol in the trunk of your car in a locked case. You may not carry your alcohol anywhere outside of your home. If you want to carry alcohol outside of your home, you would have to go to a class, pay a fee, pass another background check, pass a test, and have to carry your "alcohol carry permit" with you at all times you have a drink with you. This DOES NOT permit you to *drink* that drink, only carry it around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
