How is this NOT a hate crime???

[normiss 917]

Hanging Palin
if the noose were on someone else it most certainly would be!

How is this stoopid country going to get past racism so long as we have double standards?

[kallend 2,230]

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Hanging Palin
if the noose were on someone else it most certainly would be!

How is this stoopid country going to get past racism so long as we have double standards?

Let me spell it out for you:

H
A
L
L
O
W
E
E
N

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 917]

So could this person hang a black person for
H
A
L
L
O
W
E
E
N
?
?
?


thanks for the spelling...

[nerdgirl 0]

From the article you cited, it does appear this it is being _reported_ as a hate crime:

Quote

A West Hollywood Halloween display showing a likeness of Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin hanging by a noose has caused a furor among some residents who reported it as a hate crime, authorities said Monday.

The video also mentioned the Secret Service is investigating.

The individuals cited as not considering it problematic were the owners of the haunted house and the LA County Sheriff:

Quote

"I'm not defending this; I'm not criticizing it. It doesn't rise to the level of hate crime," said Steve Whitmore, spokesman for the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department, who said he went out to the house himself to look at the display this morning.

"Now, if there was a crime against bad taste . . . "

Perhaps that's with whom issue should be taken?

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[millertime24 8]

So it would be ok to do that to anyone as long as its halloween? Somehow I doubt you would get away with that in Compton with an Obama statue.

Muff #5048

[AWL71 0]

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Hanging Palin
if the noose were on someone else it most certainly would be!

How is this stoopid country going to get past racism so long as we have double standards?

For Sure. If this was done to an effigy of Barack there would be rioting in the streets. But no worries if done to Palin. Thats OK.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[jimmytavino 16]

absolutely!!!!!!! stupid,, and HATEFUL, and in hugely BAD taste....

I'd say it's hateful.... but the damn free speech issue can be 'claimed' as justification for it...and therefore insulates it, from being labeled a 'hate crime'

shameful....

Not sure of the brains or lack thereof,,,, of the Mayor,,, who seems to pardon the atrocious behavior,,,, nor of the idiodic press who simply make things worse,,, by blasting it.. all around the world,,,,,, within minutes of it's occurence...

man there has to be press in other countries,, who eat this stuff up... and who will now take that image,, and wind it up and spin it into...
"chaos reigns in USA ".....
( which wouldn't be FAR, from the truth )

jmy

[Skwrl 56]

"Hate crimes" vary from state to state, and there is also a federal statute. Generally, a hate crime is "a criminal offense committed against a person or property motivated, in whole or in part, by the offender's bias against a racial group, religion, ethnicity, gender, sexual preference, or disability." The federal crime is limited to "crimes committed on the basis of a person's race, color, religion, or national origin."

Note: being a babbling bimbo is not a protected class.

And again, it varies, but hanging an effigy of a person in general is not a crime (unless they are reasonably threatened by it). The first amendment casts a broad layer of protection to speech and acts - particularly in the case of political figures. The Secret Service is investigating it, no doubt, because it falls within their mandate of protecting Presidential Candidates.

/Not an Obama supporter
//But I dislike her way more than I dislike him.

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[nerdgirl 0]

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For Sure. If this was done to an effigy of Barack there would be rioting in the streets. But no worries if done to Palin. Thats OK.

Please read the news story to which [normiss] linked or provide additional information. Folks who live in West Hollywood are reporting this as a hate crime. The Secret Service reportedly is investigating. Per the quote in the news story, the individual who is not treating/responding to it as a hate crime is the LA County Sheriff ... & with attention, I suspect that may change.

To the contrary, an effigy of Sen Obama was hung from a tree. That happened at the end of September. It got much less attention here than this incident, afaik ... and we will see if gets less attention in the commercial media. The discussion w/r/t the motive for that noosed effigy largely revolved around whether the act was political or not, rather than was it a "hate" crime or not.

Another effigy of Sen Obama that was hung north of Cincinnati two weeks ago also received little attention in the commercial media or here. The man, Mike Lunsford, responsible, has asserted that Obama is "not a full-blooded American and that the United States is a white, Christian nation, and only with white Christians should be in power."

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[sfc 1]

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Hanging Palin
if the noose were on someone else it most certainly would be!

How is this stoopid country going to get past racism so long as we have double standards?

It didn't bother me a bit, you have to look at why it was done, did you see the interview? You'll have to explain why you think this is racist I don't see it.

The guys doing the hanging are white and republicans are not a legally protected minority (even though some of their leaders think they are above the law) so it is not a crime.

[speuci 0]

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but hanging an effigy of a person in general is not a crime

The central issue here is where the effigy is hung. On your own property = likely protected speech. On someone else's property = likely threatening and not protected speech.

[Skwrl 56]

We need to break this down a bit.

The issue is (a) is this assault? and (b) if it was an assault, was it a hate crime? Assault requires that you have apparent, present ability to commit a violent injury upon another. (That's a general common law definition, states vary.)

So you are right, if the person whose property it was on was reasonably threatened. If they weren't reasonably threatened, I think you'd have a trespassing case only. Example: if I take my stuffed squirrel and put a noose around his head, walk to your front lawn, and hang the little guy from a tree, you probably won't be threatened - unless you self-identify with squirrels.

If you do self-identify with squirrels, and are put into reasonable apprehension over it, then I could see how it might be assault. If I did it because of your race, gender, etc., then it might be a hate crime.

But putting it on your own property is not a complete defense. If I lived next to a member of an ethnic group I didn't like, and put up a big sign on my front lawn saying, "I'm going to kill [Neighbor's Name]" (and it was reasonable to think I could), and stood on my front lawn waving a butcher's knife at my neighbor when he walked out of his house, then it would still be assault. If I did it because they are a member of that ethnic group, then it might be a hate crime.

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[billvon 3,173]

>So it would be ok to do that to anyone as long as its halloween?

It looks like people are seeing this only two ways:

1) It's OK, it's fine, I support it
2) It's a hate crime and someone should go to jail

I think there is a third option - that it is a completely tasteless Halloween display that should be taken down because it's tasteless and rude.

For a non-political comparison, imagine your neighbor did a Halloween display with Jennifer Hudson's mother, brother and nephew trying to rise from the grave along with creepy noises. Would you want them arrested, or would you just want them to take down the display?

>Somehow I doubt you would get away with that in Compton with an Obama statue.

As others have pointed out, people already have.

[livendive 8]

For the record, I'm opposed to most hate crime legislation.

That said, I don't see how this would meet the definition. As far as I saw, there's no intent to intimidate or harm anyone on the basis of their race, gender, religion, etc. It appears to me to most likely be intended in fun (albeit poor taste), and at worst an expression of hatred toward an individual. If we consider hatred of an individual to be a hate crime, almost every murderer sitting in prison will need to be re-tried/sentenced as such.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[millertime24 8]

Forgive my ignorance but until I googled it just now I had no idea who Jennifer Hudson was (or I guess in this case her family). So if I saw what you describe as a halloween set up chances are I wouldnt give it a second thought.

But as another post pointed out I guess it all depends on how you identify with it too.

Muff #5048

[speuci 0]

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We need to break this down a bit.

Yeah, I was abstracting a lot!

[TrophyHusband 0]

the whole idea of a hate crime is bullshit. why is something less of a crime if its committed against a white person? isn't that discriminatory? i don't like the display, but i think this is freedom of expression. many political figures have been hanged (or is it hung?) in the past. i wouldn't like it if they same thing were done to obama. i think the display makes the "artists" look a little silly anyway. not agreeing with sara palin's view is one thing, but to suggest that she's such an evil person that she should be hanged is laughable.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[kallend 2,230]

Quote

>So it would be ok to do that to anyone as long as its halloween?

It looks like people are seeing this only two ways:

1) It's OK, it's fine, I support it
2) It's a hate crime and someone should go to jail

I think there is a third option - that it is a completely tasteless Halloween display that should be taken down because it's tasteless and rude.

For a non-political comparison, imagine your neighbor did a Halloween display with Jennifer Hudson's mother, brother and nephew trying to rise from the grave along with creepy noises. Would you want them arrested, or would you just want them to take down the display?

>Somehow I doubt you would get away with that in Compton with an Obama statue.

As others have pointed out, people already have.

If tasteless and rude were reasons for banning certain halloween displays and contumes, the Skydive Chicago Halloween Party would be a pretty quiet affair.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[klingeme 1]

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the whole idea of a hate crime is bullshit. why is something less of a crime if its committed against a white person? isn't that discriminatory?

It's not discriminitory if you are a straight majority white male. We are the only ones LEGALLY allowed to discrimate against.

Mark Klingelhoefer

[JohnRich 4]

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Hanging Palin
if the noose were on someone else it most certainly would be! How is this stoopid country going to get past racism so long as we have double standards?

Here's a news story for those who said that if the effigy-hanging was Obama, that the reaction wouldn't be any different (no action), because it's just politics, or it's just Halloween:

"2 accused of hanging Obama effigy on Ky. campus"
http://www.kentucky.com/471/story/574675.html

Quote:

"A University of Kentucky student and another man were arrested Thursday, accused of hanging a life-sized likeness of Barack Obama from a tree on the campus.

The incident was one of several in recent weeks involving effigies of the presidential candidates or their running mates. No charges have been filed in four other cases that have made national headlines."

Oops, that liberal double-standard has revealed itself yet again...

So here's the standard:
1) It's okay to hang Sarah Palin in effigy because that's just politics, or it's just Halloween.
2) It's a crime to hang Obama in effigy, because that's evil, no matter when it's done.

Got it?

[DanG 1]

And just to help out JohnRich, the master of the selected quote, here's the rest of the story, from the same source:

Quote

Arrested were Joe Fischer, 22, a UK student, and Hunter Bush, 21, both of Lexington. Both were being held at Fayette County Detention Center on charges of disorderly conduct related to the hanging of the effigy. They were also charged with burglary and theft at a fraternity house where police said the materials came from.

Any of you law and order types want to argue that burglary and theft are now okay?

Puh-leeze

- Dan G

[livendive 8]

Quote

Quote

Hanging Palin
if the noose were on someone else it most certainly would be! How is this stoopid country going to get past racism so long as we have double standards?

Here's a news story for those who said that if the effigy-hanging was Obama, that the reaction wouldn't be any different (no action), because it's just politics, or it's just Halloween:

"2 accused of hanging Obama effigy on Ky. campus"
http://www.kentucky.com/471/story/574675.html

Quote:

"A University of Kentucky student and another man were arrested Thursday, accused of hanging a life-sized likeness of Barack Obama from a tree on the campus.

The incident was one of several in recent weeks involving effigies of the presidential candidates or their running mates. No charges have been filed in four other cases that have made national headlines."

Oops, that liberal double-standard has revealed itself yet again...

So here's the standard:
1) It's okay to hang Sarah Palin in effigy because that's just politics, or it's just Halloween.
2) It's a crime to hang Obama in effigy, because that's evil, no matter when it's done.

Got it?

Of course the fact that they stole the materials and hung it on public property vs purchased the materials to display on private property is completely irrelevent. In any case, your two boys were ALSO not charged with a hate crime.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[billvon 3,173]

>Oops, that liberal double-standard has revealed itself yet again...

Yep, us liberals have a double standard. We think that hanging a tasteless and disgusting halloween display in your own yard is different than burglary and theft. We're funny that way. It's unfortunate that we are not more conservative. Then we'd applaud the thieves and defend them to the bitter end, because they pushed the correct conservative message with their crime.

[JohnRich 4]

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Any of you law and order types want to argue that burglary and theft are now okay?

Even if they hadn't committed burglary and theft to get the materials to create the effigy, there's still the arrest for "disorderly conduct" for hanging the effigy.

You can't pretend that one away.

No one was arrested for disorderly conduct for hanging Sarah Palin in effigy.

[DanG 1]

And the disorderly conduct arrest could have been for their behavior during the arrest, or during the actual hanging of the effigy.

You're dying to find a double standard here that is not backed up by the article.

And frankly, if you want to get past the platitudes and other bullshit, there is a double standard. White mobs publicly hanging black people from trees was done in the post-bellum South as a means of racial intimidation and coersion. The same can not be said about blacks hanging whites. Right or wrong, saying the noose is not taken as a symbol of racial hatred and threats is like saying burning crosses are just done because it gives off a nice light. You have intentional blinders on if you believe otherwise.

- Dan G