California Ballot Propositions

[downwardspiral 0]

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As an alternative, no.

But that argument is along the same lines as, "Should young girls face possible post-operative complications without the knowledge of the parents?"

Again, I have set that aside in favor of what I personally think is a more important policy - that of consistency.

I very strongly disagree with consistency being more important than back alley abortions.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[georgerussia 0]

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Do you have any evidence that the video is a fake?

Well, since that it is you who brought up the video as evidence, it should be your responsibility to prove that the evidence you've brought is not fake. Not every video on YouTube is real, as you obviously know.

However I'll take it. Yes, it has very high chance to be fake. First, there is no information in the video about the slaughtering house, which a) makes it impossible to verify the information stated and b) makes it impossible for anyone to legally clarify it as false information. After all, I could set up a slaughtering house in my backyard for ten minutes, bring in some cows and video guys and shoot a 10-minute video of much worse "evidence". Second, it looks like this has been shot on pro equipment and then was edited to look like it was shot by a camcorder; I'd give a strong verdict if I got access to a higher-quality version of the video. But it was definitely edited, and I'd put my last dollar on this.

But your problem here is that it's not really relevant. If you had a verifyable list of California farms which abuse the animals, and there was significant amount of them, you'd prove your point at least partially. Then we would need to take a look on the farms outside California, because if they do the same, the ballot measure will not really help at all. So far even if we accept your video as evidence (which we cannot do as it's not verifyable), it looks like just a single incident, which does not require any measures.

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It is common knowledge about how slaughterhouses operate.

I guess your "common knowledge" so far only came from special interest groups, because you definitely not talking as someone of his own experience. Did you EVER personally visit a slaughterhouse? How do you know how they operate? You obviously know that special interest groups are not created and funded to tell you the truth. In the best case they usually tell you only one side of it.

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Perhaps YOU should visit these slaughter houses yourself so that you can learn about the atrocities that these animals endure.

That's a good suggestion, and I assume you already done it yourself. Could I ask you how many have you have visited already, and what was your overall experience?

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Is there any wonder that the turnover rate for slaughterhouse workers averages 75%?

Do you have any evidence for this 75% figure, or you're just guessing?
But anyway there would be no wonder. A slaughterhouse worker's job is not like secretary in the office. It is the job to slaughter animals, that's what they are hired for. Obviously this is not job for everyone. The executioners in the ancient times had even higher turnover as well.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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Don't bother....he won't watch the video.

I'm here to discuss subject with the people. If the person cannot even state their opinion and just points to some YouTube video, it seems like they have nothing to say themselves.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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No, it's not spending a lot of money now - it's spending a lot of money over the next decade on badly needed infrastructure.

Are you sure we _badly_ need a /rare-stop/ train from San Francisco to San Diego?

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This train would replace a lot of flights, and a lot of cars. Given our pollution issues, and our legislated desire to lower emissions, it's rather necessary.

But then there is another problem. I know a lot of airlines which are not government-owned or operated. But so far I do not know any railroad in the world which is not government-owned or operated on government subsidies.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Nightingale 0]

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This train would replace a lot of flights, and a lot of cars. Given our pollution issues, and our legislated desire to lower emissions, it's rather necessary. And upon completion, if successful, would lead quickly to one to go to Vegas, though it too is a corridor that warrants doing one, perhaps over a road expansion. The difference is that a NorCal-SoCal train is essential to the state, whereas one to Vegas is a bit more of a luxury.

The train probably wouldn't replace a lot of cars. The people that drive tend to do so because they don't want the added expense of renting a car or the hassle of dealing with public transportation when they get to their destination. The train wouldn't solve these issues, so you're not going to remove a lot of cars. You may end up with fewer airplane flights, but airplanes are already mass transit, so is that really a significant improvement?

[tbrown 26]

Gays and lesbians should not be immune from marriage and divorce. But seriously, let them do it. It aint like heteros have done a good job of preserving the sanctity of marriage.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Is there any wonder that the turnover rate for slaughterhouse workers averages 75%?

Do you have any evidence for this 75% figure, or you're just guessing?
But anyway there would be no wonder. A slaughterhouse worker's job is not like secretary in the office. It is the job to slaughter animals, that's what they are hired for. Obviously this is not job for everyone. The executioners in the ancient times had even higher turnover as well.

Lots of jobs have 75% turnover. I was a sales clerk for a Trak Auto shop one summer - by the end, there was complete turnover when I left to go back to school.

[kelpdiver 2]

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The train probably wouldn't replace a lot of cars. The people that drive tend to do so because they don't want the added expense of renting a car or the hassle of dealing with public transportation when they get to their destination. The train wouldn't solve these issues, so you're not going to remove a lot of cars. You may end up with fewer airplane flights, but airplanes are already mass transit, so is that really a significant improvement?

Air traffic is close to maxed out, and in light of TSA nonsense, becoming increasingly annoying. It's difficult for me to fly to LA to go diving, or even skydiving, given the restrictions on what and how much you can carry. It also requires advance planning, or additional expense. The train won't be a clear cost winner against $49 one way fares on SouthWest, but would against $119 one way.

I'm presuming that CA population will continue to grow while the capacity of I-5 is basically fixed, as well as the flight corridor. And while a 737 counts as mass transit, the train is still far better.

[billvon 3,119]

>you need to look at whether it's the right thing to do at this time and
>whether this is the right way to pay for it.

I agree. However, due to the cyclic nature of our economy, it is nearly always the bond measures approved during economic good times that cause all the problems, due to their payback periods. Indeed, one could argue that the economy is so cyclic, and bond repayment times so long, that it is better to vote on the merits of the proposal rather than on a perceived ability to pay.

[georgerussia 0]

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The train won't be a clear cost winner against $49 one way fares on SouthWest, but would against $119 one way.

That's the part I doubt. The proponents claim that the whole system will be only supported by user fees, and not the government. And maintaining a 737 and ATC cannot be cheaper than maintaining a 500-mile high-speed railway tracks alone.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[headoverheels 334]

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Air traffic is close to maxed out, and in light of TSA nonsense, becoming increasingly annoying.

I'm expecting TSA nonsense for this train also.

[headoverheels 334]

Meat is Murder

[billvon 3,119]

>I'm expecting TSA nonsense for this train also.

I wouldn't. I mean, Amtrak's a much better terrorist target; they go through the centers of most cities. Besides, what's a terrorist going to do? "Drive this train into a nuclear reactor, or I'll shoot!"

[lawrocket 3]

Well, trains and buses are great for bombers. Easy to get on and off. And a large number of people packed in nice and tightly.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[headoverheels 334]

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>I'm expecting TSA nonsense for this train also.

I wouldn't. I mean, Amtrak's a much better terrorist target; they go through the centers of most cities. Besides, what's a terrorist going to do? "Drive this train into a nuclear reactor, or I'll shoot!"

Bombs, ricin, nail clippers, toothpaste in large tubes.

[DFWAJG 4]

That video came from the Humane Society after they were in the California meat packing company for 6 weeks. The company was cited for their animal cruelty. It was all over the news. Apparently, you didn't watch the video or listen to it closely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallmark/Westland_Meat_Packing_Company

In regards to my visiting these places, I doubt that they would let this vegan in to visit. But, I have driven past many cattle ranches along the 5 and have seen the conditions that from that distance alone, appear to be unhealthy and deplorable. I also drove frequently to Highland, past a chicken farm, which was not a farm at all, but a barn stocked high with chickens. I wouldn't want to eat eggs from there considering the horrific vomit inducing smells from the place. In regards to the turnover rate, it was actually 75 - 100%. And no, I'm not guessing. Just do a google search and you will find the info yourself. So, in point, you really have no clue where your food comes from, do you?

[DFWAJG 4]

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Meat is Murder

You can eat what you want. I'm not pushing Veganism. I'm pushing respect for what you eat. The meat industry treats these animals horridly. If I were to resume eating animals, I would only get my meat from grass fed farms where there is a greater respect for the animals.