PLFXpert 0 #51 October 21, 2008 QuoteA selective misreading by some... He said the next President will have to show some leadership. Duh. I got that, but you have to admit this should have been worded differently: QuoteWatch. We're going to have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy. I'd have substituted "to test" with "that will test". I know it's like an extra word and all, but makes the intended meaning so much clearer. Plus, I don't like the use of "generated" w/r/t "crisis to test [Obama]" It makes me feel icky.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #52 October 21, 2008 QuoteQuoteA selective misreading by some... He said the next President will have to show some leadership. Duh. I got that, but you have to admit this should have been worded differently: Perhaps, but when you have hostile listeners, they will always find the worst way to interpret a statement. This is one reason why Palin won't have a press conference. Who knows what she'll say, and how it will be interpreted even by her supporters? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #53 October 21, 2008 QuoteThis is one reason why Palin won't have a press conference... I disagree. And it seems she does, too, given her recent interviews with the press. She has a much better history of dealing with the press than Biden, even considering her awkward Couric interview. But, I digress.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #54 October 21, 2008 QuoteQuoteThis is one reason why Palin won't have a press conference... I disagree. And it seems she does, too, given her recent interviews with the press. She has a much better history of dealing with the press than Biden, even considering her awkward Couric interview. But, I digress. Was there a new development, or are you referring to the soft ball interviews like the Couric one, where she answered with 'I'll get back to you.' I'm talking about a free for all press conference. I don't see how she can go from absolutely no history with the press to one better than of Biden. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #55 October 21, 2008 Quote Now, had Liddy been black, and had the same sort of relationship with Obama that he has with McCain...Quote What does race have anything to do with it? I find Obama's associations more troubling than McCain's. It's my personal point of view. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #56 October 21, 2008 QuoteQuote Now, had Liddy been black, and had the same sort of relationship with Obama that he has with McCain...Quote What does race have anything to do with it? I find Obama's associations more troubling than McCain's. Of course you do. Any Republican can relate to Liddy and Keating. Quote It's my personal point of view. You're entitled to your opinion.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PLFXpert 0 #57 October 21, 2008 Quoteare you referring to... don't see how she can go from absolutely no history with the press to one better than of Biden. I'm referring to "history with the press".Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,112 #58 October 21, 2008 >What does race have anything to do with it? It shouldn't. Unfortunately, white preachers who spew hatred are given a free pass, and black pastors who spew hatred are crucified. Why are we still making a distinction on race? I have no idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TankBuster 0 #59 October 22, 2008 "Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy," Biden said. "I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate. And he's gonna need help. And the kind of help he's gonna need is, he's gonna need you - not financially to help him - we're gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it's not gonna be apparent initially, it's not gonna be apparent that we're right." "Gird your loins," Biden warned."We're gonna win with your help, God willing, we're gonna win, but this is not gonna be an easy ride. This president, the next president, is gonna be left with the most significant task. It's like cleaning the Augean stables, man. This is more than just, this is more than – think about it, literally, think about it – this is more than just a capital crisis, this is more than just markets. This is a systemic problem we have with this economy." Biden specifically said Obama would need "help" from his supporters to stay popular on foreign policy matters. "I've forgotten more about foreign policy than most of my colleagues know, so I'm not being falsely humble with you. I think I can be value added, but this guy has it," Biden said of his running mate. Biden said Obama is "gonna need your help. Because I promise you, you all are gonna be sitting here a year from now going, 'Oh my God, why are they there in the polls? Why is the polling so down? Why is this thing so tough?' We're gonna have to make some incredibly tough decisions in the first two years. So I'm asking you now, I'm asking you now, be prepared to stick with us. Remember the faith you had at this point because you're going to have to reinforce us." There are gonna be a lot of you who want to go, 'Whoa, wait a minute, yo, whoa, whoa, I don't know about that decision. Because if you think the decision is sound when they're made, which I believe you will when they're made, they're not likely to be as popular as they are sound. Because if they're popular, they're probably not sound." Does anybody here who speaks Bidenese want to tell us what the hell this means? I just hope the handlers don't muzzle him. Gird your loins? GIRD YOUR LOINS? Now that's funny stuff.The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdvr 210 #60 October 22, 2008 Won't the whole world love us after Barry is elected? WHy would they want to creat an incident? Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TankBuster 0 #61 October 22, 2008 It looks as if the liberals in the forum don't want to comment on Sen Biden's speech. We should cut them a break. It's hard to defend such buffoonery.The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites idrankwhat 0 #62 October 22, 2008 QuoteIt looks as if the liberals in the forum don't want to comment on Sen Biden's speech. We should cut them a break. It's hard to defend such buffoonery. What's to defend? Most of what he stated comes down to "the Bush administration has left this country in terrible mess. And the fallout from this failed Presidency has yet to fully materialize. The next year or two are going to be tough to get through. We are going to need your steadfast help and I'm asking you to support us through the recovery." He also mentioned that our enemies may try to push a few buttons with Obama to see how he deals with the pressure, and that Biden has a lot of foreign policy experience to offer. Clear enough? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nerdgirl 0 #63 October 22, 2008 Quote It looks as if the liberals in the forum don't want to comment on Sen Biden's speech. We should cut them a break. It's hard to defend such buffoonery. It's hard to take your questions seriously when you make statements like that. Suspect you have something to offer but statements like that suggest you're not really asking questions. Nonetheless responding as if your initial query was legitimate and serious: “Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy,” Sen Biden asserts that there is a high likelihood that in the 6 months following the inauguration will be an international incident not of natural causes, i.e., it won’t be an asteroid, hurricane/typhoon, earthquake, or gamma ray burst. It will be a crisis generated by humans. The response to the international crisis will require leadership. “I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate.” Sen Biden can think of 4 or 5 possible scenarios. So can I. While I can’t speak for Sen Biden, possible candidates include Iran (nuclear program), DPRK (nuclear program), Russia (Georgia, oil, natural gas), Afghanistan, Pakistan. “And he's gonna need help. And the kind of help he's gonna need is, he's gonna need you - not financially to help him - we're gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it's not gonna be apparent initially, it's not gonna be apparent that we're right." The leader of the country will need the support of the electorate. He was speaking to individuals who are politically involved and leaders in their respective communities. He’s indicating that people – regular Americans – will have to contribute and that the federal government will not be the only important player. The solutions will not come solely from the federal government nor from the money alone. The solutions and choices may not be politically popular. In the long term some hard choices may need to be made that initially may be very unpopular. “Gird your loins," Biden warned. This is an idiom of Roman origin; it originally meant to prepare to put on one’s armor and prepare for battle. The phrase is also used by Peter (Peter 1:13-16 KJV) and Paul (Eph 6:14 KJV) to refer to psychological preparation and preparing for a metaphorical battle of ideas. It is generally used today to mean or invoke an idea of preparing to do something difficult or preparing for action. "We're gonna win with your help, God willing, we're gonna win, but this is not gonna be an easy ride. This president, the next president, is gonna be left with the most significant task. Sen Biden is asserting confidence in his and Sen Obama’s campaign. He doesn’t expect the next few weeks to be easy. One might suggest that he is intimating past negative campaigning and anticipation of future negative campaigning by his opponents. Regardless of whoever is elected, Sen Biden asserts that the challenges the next President will be left with (the economic crisis, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran) will be large. “It's like cleaning the Augean stables, man.” This is a literary reference referring to the mythological fifth labor of Hercules. He doesn’t literally mean cleaning stables in a Mediterranean-area sea. He also doesn’t literally mean Sen Obama is Hercules – it’s a metaphor. He’s referring to the fixing the financial crisis, restoring confidence in American market, and dealing with recession, rising unemployment, housing crisis, and the deficit as Herculean tasks. “This is more than just, this is more than – think about it, literally, think about it – this is more than just a capital crisis, this is more than just markets. This is a systemic problem we have with this economy." Sen Biden is asserting that cleaning up the effects and consequences of the economic turmoil/crisis are not going to be easy. There are long-term systematic problems that need to be addressed both domestically and internationally. (And it would take more paragraphs than [Andy9o8] would read to go into those detailed causal factors [edit to add]; he should just read [idrankwhat]'s concise synopsis.) “I've forgotten more about foreign policy than most of my colleagues know, so I'm not being falsely humble with you. I think I can be value added, but this guy has it,” Sen Biden is referencing his long-term experience in foreign policy, e.g., chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He feels this experience will add value and concurrently he has confidence in Sen Obama’s leadership and judgement to handle an international crisis. Biden said Obama is “gonna need your help. Because I promise you, you all are gonna be sitting here a year from now going, ‘Oh my God, why are they there in the polls? Why is the polling so down? Why is this thing so tough?’ We're gonna have to make some incredibly tough decisions in the first two years. So I'm asking you now, I'm asking you now, be prepared to stick with us. Remember the faith you had at this point because you're going to have to reinforce us.” He’s suggesting that he and Sen Obama realize that hard decisions, unpopular decisions will have to be made to deal with the economic crisis and move the country forward. Simple rhetoric and popular ideas (like gas tax holidays) are unlikely to be the type of policy decisions that will be needed. He expects that some of those necessary decisions will result in low poll numbers (“there” as in a lowing voter approval rather than high). “There are gonna be a lot of you who want to go, ‘Whoa, wait a minute, yo, whoa, whoa, I don't know about that decision.’ Because if you think the decision is sound when they're made, which I believe you will when they're made, they're not likely to be as popular as they are sound. Because if they're popular, they're probably not sound.” He’s asserting that simple, popular (bread & circuses style) type policies are not going to resolve the financial crisis. Please let me know if anything remains unclear for you or your colleagues. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #64 October 22, 2008 Pelosi, Fall 2006 (paraphrased) - "If we don't win, we'll know the fix was in." Biden, Fall 2008 (paraphrased) - "Someone's going to see how Obama will react to a crisis, so that will be why the poll numbers are low." Nice setup - you can pre-empitively shift the blame and everyone will buy it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanG 1 #65 October 22, 2008 I commend you for having the balls to reply to a nerdgirl post. You failed, however, to address any of her points. The speech made by Biden was his prediction that no leader will be able to get the US out of our current problems and still maintain high popularity. I happen to agree. He also believes that Obama has what it takes to get the country going in the right direction. I also agree with that assessment. You clearly disagree, but fail to explain why. Please offer your opinion on why McCain could avoid the pitfalls that Biden is predicting. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #66 October 22, 2008 I did address it - did you not read what I wrote about Biden? You (and apparently marg) feel Obama is a better choice - I do not.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #67 October 22, 2008 QuoteI did address it . Saying you did it is not the same as doing it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 2 #68 October 22, 2008 QuoteQuote “Gird your loins," Biden warned. This is an idiom of Roman origin; it originally meant to prepare to put on one’s armor and prepare for battle. The phrase is also used by Peter (Peter 1:13-16 KJV) and Paul (Eph 6:14 KJV) to refer to psychological preparation and preparing for a metaphorical battle of ideas. It is generally used today to mean or invoke an idea of preparing to do something difficult or preparing for action. See, if you want them to understand it, you gotta get into their heads. Something like this: Biden (paraphrased): "Lock and load." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nerdgirl 0 #69 October 22, 2008 Quote Pelosi, Fall 2006 (paraphrased) - "If we don't win, we'll know the fix was in." Biden, Fall 2008 (paraphrased) - "Someone's going to see how Obama will react to a crisis, so that will be why the poll numbers are low." Nice setup - you can pre-empitively shift the blame and everyone will buy it. What set-up? He’s suggesting that he and Sen Obama realize that hard decisions, unpopular decisions will have to be made to deal with the economic crisis and move the country forward. Simple rhetoric and popular ideas (i.e., the 'bread & cirsuses' metaphor) are unlikely to be the type of policy decisions that will be needed. He expects that some of those necessary decisions will result in low poll numbers (“there” as in a lowing voter approval rather than high). Would you like me to choose two non-contextualized comments that I get to paraphrase by any two politicians to illustrate almost anything I want? Bet I can't do it? VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanG 1 #70 October 22, 2008 You said: QuoteBiden, Fall 2008 (paraphrased) - "Someone's going to see how Obama will react to a crisis, so that will be why the poll numbers are low." Nice setup - you can pre-empitively shift the blame and everyone will buy it. Perhaps I don't get your point, but it seems to me that all you are saying is that Biden is wrong when he asserts that outside difficulties will lead to unpopular choices, which will lead to lower polling numbers. Do I have it? If so, can you now explain why you think that is wrong? - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 2 #71 October 22, 2008 It works kind of like this: Gov. Palin later amended her expense report to claim that her children traveled with her on official business. Palin (paraphrased) - I was so busy promoting myself that I never bothered to instill in my own family the wholesome family values I preached to others. So you can bet I'm (finally!) keeping my slutty kid right where I can keep an eye on her. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nerdgirl 0 #72 October 22, 2008 I quite intentionally didn't try to make any points about Biden's comments. I tried to re-iterate in different words and explain the historical biblical and literary metaphors that [Tankbuster] found unfamiliar & odd. Perhaps I was unsuccesful in either of those attempts. One can dispute my translation. Or one can suggest different interpretations or make conclusions/points as Mike did. I disagree with the conclusion he suggests. Asking *either* of us for clarification is reasonable, imo. Questioning my translation, offering others, or make interpretations/conclusions are all reasonable & encouraged ... encouraged heartily! The vast majority of Mike's questions/comments are charged but fair ... in his exchanges with me that has always been the case. Regardless of the poster (& I include myself in this), reasonable & fair does necessarily equal valid or correct. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #73 October 22, 2008 Quote Would you like me to choose two non-contextualized comments that I get to paraphrase by any two politicians to illustrate almost anything I want? Bet I can't do it? With the Cray and T3 line? I know you could... Maybe I'm just over-cynical after years of rhetoric and broken promises from both sides of the aisle.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites idrankwhat 0 #74 October 22, 2008 Quote Nice setup - you can pre-empitively shift the blame and everyone will buy it. I see Biden's speech as being honest and straightforward. Instead of saying "when we get in there everything's going to be great and you have nothing to worry about" he's stating that "this is going to hurt just a bit". Honesty, rather refreshing isn't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shotgun 1 #75 October 26, 2008 Nice comeback from McCain today: Quote"They may want to test Obama,'' McCain said at rally in Albuquerque, New Mexico. "I have been tested. I am going to test them. They are not going to test me.'' Umm.... Personally, I don't want a President who wants to "test" our enemies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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kallend 2,147 #56 October 21, 2008 QuoteQuote Now, had Liddy been black, and had the same sort of relationship with Obama that he has with McCain...Quote What does race have anything to do with it? I find Obama's associations more troubling than McCain's. Of course you do. Any Republican can relate to Liddy and Keating. Quote It's my personal point of view. You're entitled to your opinion.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PLFXpert 0 #57 October 21, 2008 Quoteare you referring to... don't see how she can go from absolutely no history with the press to one better than of Biden. I'm referring to "history with the press".Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,112 #58 October 21, 2008 >What does race have anything to do with it? It shouldn't. Unfortunately, white preachers who spew hatred are given a free pass, and black pastors who spew hatred are crucified. Why are we still making a distinction on race? I have no idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TankBuster 0 #59 October 22, 2008 "Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy," Biden said. "I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate. And he's gonna need help. And the kind of help he's gonna need is, he's gonna need you - not financially to help him - we're gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it's not gonna be apparent initially, it's not gonna be apparent that we're right." "Gird your loins," Biden warned."We're gonna win with your help, God willing, we're gonna win, but this is not gonna be an easy ride. This president, the next president, is gonna be left with the most significant task. It's like cleaning the Augean stables, man. This is more than just, this is more than – think about it, literally, think about it – this is more than just a capital crisis, this is more than just markets. This is a systemic problem we have with this economy." Biden specifically said Obama would need "help" from his supporters to stay popular on foreign policy matters. "I've forgotten more about foreign policy than most of my colleagues know, so I'm not being falsely humble with you. I think I can be value added, but this guy has it," Biden said of his running mate. Biden said Obama is "gonna need your help. Because I promise you, you all are gonna be sitting here a year from now going, 'Oh my God, why are they there in the polls? Why is the polling so down? Why is this thing so tough?' We're gonna have to make some incredibly tough decisions in the first two years. So I'm asking you now, I'm asking you now, be prepared to stick with us. Remember the faith you had at this point because you're going to have to reinforce us." There are gonna be a lot of you who want to go, 'Whoa, wait a minute, yo, whoa, whoa, I don't know about that decision. Because if you think the decision is sound when they're made, which I believe you will when they're made, they're not likely to be as popular as they are sound. Because if they're popular, they're probably not sound." Does anybody here who speaks Bidenese want to tell us what the hell this means? I just hope the handlers don't muzzle him. Gird your loins? GIRD YOUR LOINS? Now that's funny stuff.The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdvr 210 #60 October 22, 2008 Won't the whole world love us after Barry is elected? WHy would they want to creat an incident? Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TankBuster 0 #61 October 22, 2008 It looks as if the liberals in the forum don't want to comment on Sen Biden's speech. We should cut them a break. It's hard to defend such buffoonery.The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites idrankwhat 0 #62 October 22, 2008 QuoteIt looks as if the liberals in the forum don't want to comment on Sen Biden's speech. We should cut them a break. It's hard to defend such buffoonery. What's to defend? Most of what he stated comes down to "the Bush administration has left this country in terrible mess. And the fallout from this failed Presidency has yet to fully materialize. The next year or two are going to be tough to get through. We are going to need your steadfast help and I'm asking you to support us through the recovery." He also mentioned that our enemies may try to push a few buttons with Obama to see how he deals with the pressure, and that Biden has a lot of foreign policy experience to offer. Clear enough? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nerdgirl 0 #63 October 22, 2008 Quote It looks as if the liberals in the forum don't want to comment on Sen Biden's speech. We should cut them a break. It's hard to defend such buffoonery. It's hard to take your questions seriously when you make statements like that. Suspect you have something to offer but statements like that suggest you're not really asking questions. Nonetheless responding as if your initial query was legitimate and serious: “Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy,” Sen Biden asserts that there is a high likelihood that in the 6 months following the inauguration will be an international incident not of natural causes, i.e., it won’t be an asteroid, hurricane/typhoon, earthquake, or gamma ray burst. It will be a crisis generated by humans. The response to the international crisis will require leadership. “I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate.” Sen Biden can think of 4 or 5 possible scenarios. So can I. While I can’t speak for Sen Biden, possible candidates include Iran (nuclear program), DPRK (nuclear program), Russia (Georgia, oil, natural gas), Afghanistan, Pakistan. “And he's gonna need help. And the kind of help he's gonna need is, he's gonna need you - not financially to help him - we're gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it's not gonna be apparent initially, it's not gonna be apparent that we're right." The leader of the country will need the support of the electorate. He was speaking to individuals who are politically involved and leaders in their respective communities. He’s indicating that people – regular Americans – will have to contribute and that the federal government will not be the only important player. The solutions will not come solely from the federal government nor from the money alone. The solutions and choices may not be politically popular. In the long term some hard choices may need to be made that initially may be very unpopular. “Gird your loins," Biden warned. This is an idiom of Roman origin; it originally meant to prepare to put on one’s armor and prepare for battle. The phrase is also used by Peter (Peter 1:13-16 KJV) and Paul (Eph 6:14 KJV) to refer to psychological preparation and preparing for a metaphorical battle of ideas. It is generally used today to mean or invoke an idea of preparing to do something difficult or preparing for action. "We're gonna win with your help, God willing, we're gonna win, but this is not gonna be an easy ride. This president, the next president, is gonna be left with the most significant task. Sen Biden is asserting confidence in his and Sen Obama’s campaign. He doesn’t expect the next few weeks to be easy. One might suggest that he is intimating past negative campaigning and anticipation of future negative campaigning by his opponents. Regardless of whoever is elected, Sen Biden asserts that the challenges the next President will be left with (the economic crisis, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran) will be large. “It's like cleaning the Augean stables, man.” This is a literary reference referring to the mythological fifth labor of Hercules. He doesn’t literally mean cleaning stables in a Mediterranean-area sea. He also doesn’t literally mean Sen Obama is Hercules – it’s a metaphor. He’s referring to the fixing the financial crisis, restoring confidence in American market, and dealing with recession, rising unemployment, housing crisis, and the deficit as Herculean tasks. “This is more than just, this is more than – think about it, literally, think about it – this is more than just a capital crisis, this is more than just markets. This is a systemic problem we have with this economy." Sen Biden is asserting that cleaning up the effects and consequences of the economic turmoil/crisis are not going to be easy. There are long-term systematic problems that need to be addressed both domestically and internationally. (And it would take more paragraphs than [Andy9o8] would read to go into those detailed causal factors [edit to add]; he should just read [idrankwhat]'s concise synopsis.) “I've forgotten more about foreign policy than most of my colleagues know, so I'm not being falsely humble with you. I think I can be value added, but this guy has it,” Sen Biden is referencing his long-term experience in foreign policy, e.g., chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He feels this experience will add value and concurrently he has confidence in Sen Obama’s leadership and judgement to handle an international crisis. Biden said Obama is “gonna need your help. Because I promise you, you all are gonna be sitting here a year from now going, ‘Oh my God, why are they there in the polls? Why is the polling so down? Why is this thing so tough?’ We're gonna have to make some incredibly tough decisions in the first two years. So I'm asking you now, I'm asking you now, be prepared to stick with us. Remember the faith you had at this point because you're going to have to reinforce us.” He’s suggesting that he and Sen Obama realize that hard decisions, unpopular decisions will have to be made to deal with the economic crisis and move the country forward. Simple rhetoric and popular ideas (like gas tax holidays) are unlikely to be the type of policy decisions that will be needed. He expects that some of those necessary decisions will result in low poll numbers (“there” as in a lowing voter approval rather than high). “There are gonna be a lot of you who want to go, ‘Whoa, wait a minute, yo, whoa, whoa, I don't know about that decision.’ Because if you think the decision is sound when they're made, which I believe you will when they're made, they're not likely to be as popular as they are sound. Because if they're popular, they're probably not sound.” He’s asserting that simple, popular (bread & circuses style) type policies are not going to resolve the financial crisis. Please let me know if anything remains unclear for you or your colleagues. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #64 October 22, 2008 Pelosi, Fall 2006 (paraphrased) - "If we don't win, we'll know the fix was in." Biden, Fall 2008 (paraphrased) - "Someone's going to see how Obama will react to a crisis, so that will be why the poll numbers are low." Nice setup - you can pre-empitively shift the blame and everyone will buy it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanG 1 #65 October 22, 2008 I commend you for having the balls to reply to a nerdgirl post. You failed, however, to address any of her points. The speech made by Biden was his prediction that no leader will be able to get the US out of our current problems and still maintain high popularity. I happen to agree. He also believes that Obama has what it takes to get the country going in the right direction. I also agree with that assessment. You clearly disagree, but fail to explain why. Please offer your opinion on why McCain could avoid the pitfalls that Biden is predicting. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #66 October 22, 2008 I did address it - did you not read what I wrote about Biden? You (and apparently marg) feel Obama is a better choice - I do not.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #67 October 22, 2008 QuoteI did address it . Saying you did it is not the same as doing it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 2 #68 October 22, 2008 QuoteQuote “Gird your loins," Biden warned. This is an idiom of Roman origin; it originally meant to prepare to put on one’s armor and prepare for battle. The phrase is also used by Peter (Peter 1:13-16 KJV) and Paul (Eph 6:14 KJV) to refer to psychological preparation and preparing for a metaphorical battle of ideas. It is generally used today to mean or invoke an idea of preparing to do something difficult or preparing for action. See, if you want them to understand it, you gotta get into their heads. Something like this: Biden (paraphrased): "Lock and load." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nerdgirl 0 #69 October 22, 2008 Quote Pelosi, Fall 2006 (paraphrased) - "If we don't win, we'll know the fix was in." Biden, Fall 2008 (paraphrased) - "Someone's going to see how Obama will react to a crisis, so that will be why the poll numbers are low." Nice setup - you can pre-empitively shift the blame and everyone will buy it. What set-up? He’s suggesting that he and Sen Obama realize that hard decisions, unpopular decisions will have to be made to deal with the economic crisis and move the country forward. Simple rhetoric and popular ideas (i.e., the 'bread & cirsuses' metaphor) are unlikely to be the type of policy decisions that will be needed. He expects that some of those necessary decisions will result in low poll numbers (“there” as in a lowing voter approval rather than high). Would you like me to choose two non-contextualized comments that I get to paraphrase by any two politicians to illustrate almost anything I want? Bet I can't do it? VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanG 1 #70 October 22, 2008 You said: QuoteBiden, Fall 2008 (paraphrased) - "Someone's going to see how Obama will react to a crisis, so that will be why the poll numbers are low." Nice setup - you can pre-empitively shift the blame and everyone will buy it. Perhaps I don't get your point, but it seems to me that all you are saying is that Biden is wrong when he asserts that outside difficulties will lead to unpopular choices, which will lead to lower polling numbers. Do I have it? If so, can you now explain why you think that is wrong? - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 2 #71 October 22, 2008 It works kind of like this: Gov. Palin later amended her expense report to claim that her children traveled with her on official business. Palin (paraphrased) - I was so busy promoting myself that I never bothered to instill in my own family the wholesome family values I preached to others. So you can bet I'm (finally!) keeping my slutty kid right where I can keep an eye on her. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nerdgirl 0 #72 October 22, 2008 I quite intentionally didn't try to make any points about Biden's comments. I tried to re-iterate in different words and explain the historical biblical and literary metaphors that [Tankbuster] found unfamiliar & odd. Perhaps I was unsuccesful in either of those attempts. One can dispute my translation. Or one can suggest different interpretations or make conclusions/points as Mike did. I disagree with the conclusion he suggests. Asking *either* of us for clarification is reasonable, imo. Questioning my translation, offering others, or make interpretations/conclusions are all reasonable & encouraged ... encouraged heartily! The vast majority of Mike's questions/comments are charged but fair ... in his exchanges with me that has always been the case. Regardless of the poster (& I include myself in this), reasonable & fair does necessarily equal valid or correct. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #73 October 22, 2008 Quote Would you like me to choose two non-contextualized comments that I get to paraphrase by any two politicians to illustrate almost anything I want? Bet I can't do it? With the Cray and T3 line? I know you could... Maybe I'm just over-cynical after years of rhetoric and broken promises from both sides of the aisle.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites idrankwhat 0 #74 October 22, 2008 Quote Nice setup - you can pre-empitively shift the blame and everyone will buy it. I see Biden's speech as being honest and straightforward. Instead of saying "when we get in there everything's going to be great and you have nothing to worry about" he's stating that "this is going to hurt just a bit". Honesty, rather refreshing isn't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shotgun 1 #75 October 26, 2008 Nice comeback from McCain today: Quote"They may want to test Obama,'' McCain said at rally in Albuquerque, New Mexico. "I have been tested. I am going to test them. They are not going to test me.'' Umm.... Personally, I don't want a President who wants to "test" our enemies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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PLFXpert 0 #57 October 21, 2008 Quoteare you referring to... don't see how she can go from absolutely no history with the press to one better than of Biden. I'm referring to "history with the press".Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,112 #58 October 21, 2008 >What does race have anything to do with it? It shouldn't. Unfortunately, white preachers who spew hatred are given a free pass, and black pastors who spew hatred are crucified. Why are we still making a distinction on race? I have no idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TankBuster 0 #59 October 22, 2008 "Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy," Biden said. "I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate. And he's gonna need help. And the kind of help he's gonna need is, he's gonna need you - not financially to help him - we're gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it's not gonna be apparent initially, it's not gonna be apparent that we're right." "Gird your loins," Biden warned."We're gonna win with your help, God willing, we're gonna win, but this is not gonna be an easy ride. This president, the next president, is gonna be left with the most significant task. It's like cleaning the Augean stables, man. This is more than just, this is more than – think about it, literally, think about it – this is more than just a capital crisis, this is more than just markets. This is a systemic problem we have with this economy." Biden specifically said Obama would need "help" from his supporters to stay popular on foreign policy matters. "I've forgotten more about foreign policy than most of my colleagues know, so I'm not being falsely humble with you. I think I can be value added, but this guy has it," Biden said of his running mate. Biden said Obama is "gonna need your help. Because I promise you, you all are gonna be sitting here a year from now going, 'Oh my God, why are they there in the polls? Why is the polling so down? Why is this thing so tough?' We're gonna have to make some incredibly tough decisions in the first two years. So I'm asking you now, I'm asking you now, be prepared to stick with us. Remember the faith you had at this point because you're going to have to reinforce us." There are gonna be a lot of you who want to go, 'Whoa, wait a minute, yo, whoa, whoa, I don't know about that decision. Because if you think the decision is sound when they're made, which I believe you will when they're made, they're not likely to be as popular as they are sound. Because if they're popular, they're probably not sound." Does anybody here who speaks Bidenese want to tell us what the hell this means? I just hope the handlers don't muzzle him. Gird your loins? GIRD YOUR LOINS? Now that's funny stuff.The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #60 October 22, 2008 Won't the whole world love us after Barry is elected? WHy would they want to creat an incident? Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TankBuster 0 #61 October 22, 2008 It looks as if the liberals in the forum don't want to comment on Sen Biden's speech. We should cut them a break. It's hard to defend such buffoonery.The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #62 October 22, 2008 QuoteIt looks as if the liberals in the forum don't want to comment on Sen Biden's speech. We should cut them a break. It's hard to defend such buffoonery. What's to defend? Most of what he stated comes down to "the Bush administration has left this country in terrible mess. And the fallout from this failed Presidency has yet to fully materialize. The next year or two are going to be tough to get through. We are going to need your steadfast help and I'm asking you to support us through the recovery." He also mentioned that our enemies may try to push a few buttons with Obama to see how he deals with the pressure, and that Biden has a lot of foreign policy experience to offer. Clear enough? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #63 October 22, 2008 Quote It looks as if the liberals in the forum don't want to comment on Sen Biden's speech. We should cut them a break. It's hard to defend such buffoonery. It's hard to take your questions seriously when you make statements like that. Suspect you have something to offer but statements like that suggest you're not really asking questions. Nonetheless responding as if your initial query was legitimate and serious: “Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy,” Sen Biden asserts that there is a high likelihood that in the 6 months following the inauguration will be an international incident not of natural causes, i.e., it won’t be an asteroid, hurricane/typhoon, earthquake, or gamma ray burst. It will be a crisis generated by humans. The response to the international crisis will require leadership. “I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate.” Sen Biden can think of 4 or 5 possible scenarios. So can I. While I can’t speak for Sen Biden, possible candidates include Iran (nuclear program), DPRK (nuclear program), Russia (Georgia, oil, natural gas), Afghanistan, Pakistan. “And he's gonna need help. And the kind of help he's gonna need is, he's gonna need you - not financially to help him - we're gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it's not gonna be apparent initially, it's not gonna be apparent that we're right." The leader of the country will need the support of the electorate. He was speaking to individuals who are politically involved and leaders in their respective communities. He’s indicating that people – regular Americans – will have to contribute and that the federal government will not be the only important player. The solutions will not come solely from the federal government nor from the money alone. The solutions and choices may not be politically popular. In the long term some hard choices may need to be made that initially may be very unpopular. “Gird your loins," Biden warned. This is an idiom of Roman origin; it originally meant to prepare to put on one’s armor and prepare for battle. The phrase is also used by Peter (Peter 1:13-16 KJV) and Paul (Eph 6:14 KJV) to refer to psychological preparation and preparing for a metaphorical battle of ideas. It is generally used today to mean or invoke an idea of preparing to do something difficult or preparing for action. "We're gonna win with your help, God willing, we're gonna win, but this is not gonna be an easy ride. This president, the next president, is gonna be left with the most significant task. Sen Biden is asserting confidence in his and Sen Obama’s campaign. He doesn’t expect the next few weeks to be easy. One might suggest that he is intimating past negative campaigning and anticipation of future negative campaigning by his opponents. Regardless of whoever is elected, Sen Biden asserts that the challenges the next President will be left with (the economic crisis, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran) will be large. “It's like cleaning the Augean stables, man.” This is a literary reference referring to the mythological fifth labor of Hercules. He doesn’t literally mean cleaning stables in a Mediterranean-area sea. He also doesn’t literally mean Sen Obama is Hercules – it’s a metaphor. He’s referring to the fixing the financial crisis, restoring confidence in American market, and dealing with recession, rising unemployment, housing crisis, and the deficit as Herculean tasks. “This is more than just, this is more than – think about it, literally, think about it – this is more than just a capital crisis, this is more than just markets. This is a systemic problem we have with this economy." Sen Biden is asserting that cleaning up the effects and consequences of the economic turmoil/crisis are not going to be easy. There are long-term systematic problems that need to be addressed both domestically and internationally. (And it would take more paragraphs than [Andy9o8] would read to go into those detailed causal factors [edit to add]; he should just read [idrankwhat]'s concise synopsis.) “I've forgotten more about foreign policy than most of my colleagues know, so I'm not being falsely humble with you. I think I can be value added, but this guy has it,” Sen Biden is referencing his long-term experience in foreign policy, e.g., chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He feels this experience will add value and concurrently he has confidence in Sen Obama’s leadership and judgement to handle an international crisis. Biden said Obama is “gonna need your help. Because I promise you, you all are gonna be sitting here a year from now going, ‘Oh my God, why are they there in the polls? Why is the polling so down? Why is this thing so tough?’ We're gonna have to make some incredibly tough decisions in the first two years. So I'm asking you now, I'm asking you now, be prepared to stick with us. Remember the faith you had at this point because you're going to have to reinforce us.” He’s suggesting that he and Sen Obama realize that hard decisions, unpopular decisions will have to be made to deal with the economic crisis and move the country forward. Simple rhetoric and popular ideas (like gas tax holidays) are unlikely to be the type of policy decisions that will be needed. He expects that some of those necessary decisions will result in low poll numbers (“there” as in a lowing voter approval rather than high). “There are gonna be a lot of you who want to go, ‘Whoa, wait a minute, yo, whoa, whoa, I don't know about that decision.’ Because if you think the decision is sound when they're made, which I believe you will when they're made, they're not likely to be as popular as they are sound. Because if they're popular, they're probably not sound.” He’s asserting that simple, popular (bread & circuses style) type policies are not going to resolve the financial crisis. Please let me know if anything remains unclear for you or your colleagues. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #64 October 22, 2008 Pelosi, Fall 2006 (paraphrased) - "If we don't win, we'll know the fix was in." Biden, Fall 2008 (paraphrased) - "Someone's going to see how Obama will react to a crisis, so that will be why the poll numbers are low." Nice setup - you can pre-empitively shift the blame and everyone will buy it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #65 October 22, 2008 I commend you for having the balls to reply to a nerdgirl post. You failed, however, to address any of her points. The speech made by Biden was his prediction that no leader will be able to get the US out of our current problems and still maintain high popularity. I happen to agree. He also believes that Obama has what it takes to get the country going in the right direction. I also agree with that assessment. You clearly disagree, but fail to explain why. Please offer your opinion on why McCain could avoid the pitfalls that Biden is predicting. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #66 October 22, 2008 I did address it - did you not read what I wrote about Biden? You (and apparently marg) feel Obama is a better choice - I do not.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #67 October 22, 2008 QuoteI did address it . Saying you did it is not the same as doing it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #68 October 22, 2008 QuoteQuote “Gird your loins," Biden warned. This is an idiom of Roman origin; it originally meant to prepare to put on one’s armor and prepare for battle. The phrase is also used by Peter (Peter 1:13-16 KJV) and Paul (Eph 6:14 KJV) to refer to psychological preparation and preparing for a metaphorical battle of ideas. It is generally used today to mean or invoke an idea of preparing to do something difficult or preparing for action. See, if you want them to understand it, you gotta get into their heads. Something like this: Biden (paraphrased): "Lock and load." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #69 October 22, 2008 Quote Pelosi, Fall 2006 (paraphrased) - "If we don't win, we'll know the fix was in." Biden, Fall 2008 (paraphrased) - "Someone's going to see how Obama will react to a crisis, so that will be why the poll numbers are low." Nice setup - you can pre-empitively shift the blame and everyone will buy it. What set-up? He’s suggesting that he and Sen Obama realize that hard decisions, unpopular decisions will have to be made to deal with the economic crisis and move the country forward. Simple rhetoric and popular ideas (i.e., the 'bread & cirsuses' metaphor) are unlikely to be the type of policy decisions that will be needed. He expects that some of those necessary decisions will result in low poll numbers (“there” as in a lowing voter approval rather than high). Would you like me to choose two non-contextualized comments that I get to paraphrase by any two politicians to illustrate almost anything I want? Bet I can't do it? VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #70 October 22, 2008 You said: QuoteBiden, Fall 2008 (paraphrased) - "Someone's going to see how Obama will react to a crisis, so that will be why the poll numbers are low." Nice setup - you can pre-empitively shift the blame and everyone will buy it. Perhaps I don't get your point, but it seems to me that all you are saying is that Biden is wrong when he asserts that outside difficulties will lead to unpopular choices, which will lead to lower polling numbers. Do I have it? If so, can you now explain why you think that is wrong? - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #71 October 22, 2008 It works kind of like this: Gov. Palin later amended her expense report to claim that her children traveled with her on official business. Palin (paraphrased) - I was so busy promoting myself that I never bothered to instill in my own family the wholesome family values I preached to others. So you can bet I'm (finally!) keeping my slutty kid right where I can keep an eye on her. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #72 October 22, 2008 I quite intentionally didn't try to make any points about Biden's comments. I tried to re-iterate in different words and explain the historical biblical and literary metaphors that [Tankbuster] found unfamiliar & odd. Perhaps I was unsuccesful in either of those attempts. One can dispute my translation. Or one can suggest different interpretations or make conclusions/points as Mike did. I disagree with the conclusion he suggests. Asking *either* of us for clarification is reasonable, imo. Questioning my translation, offering others, or make interpretations/conclusions are all reasonable & encouraged ... encouraged heartily! The vast majority of Mike's questions/comments are charged but fair ... in his exchanges with me that has always been the case. Regardless of the poster (& I include myself in this), reasonable & fair does necessarily equal valid or correct. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #73 October 22, 2008 Quote Would you like me to choose two non-contextualized comments that I get to paraphrase by any two politicians to illustrate almost anything I want? Bet I can't do it? With the Cray and T3 line? I know you could... Maybe I'm just over-cynical after years of rhetoric and broken promises from both sides of the aisle.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #74 October 22, 2008 Quote Nice setup - you can pre-empitively shift the blame and everyone will buy it. I see Biden's speech as being honest and straightforward. Instead of saying "when we get in there everything's going to be great and you have nothing to worry about" he's stating that "this is going to hurt just a bit". Honesty, rather refreshing isn't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #75 October 26, 2008 Nice comeback from McCain today: Quote"They may want to test Obama,'' McCain said at rally in Albuquerque, New Mexico. "I have been tested. I am going to test them. They are not going to test me.'' Umm.... Personally, I don't want a President who wants to "test" our enemies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
