Philosophical debate... [was] Thanks for the biohazard help...

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

Quote

I don't want my expression of thanks to the people here to be turned into a philosophical debate of any kind.

Just please make sure that if you decide to quote me that you actually do *quote* me and do so accurately.

Sorry LadiDadi, but IMO you clearly departed your thread yourself being a "thank you" thread to a philosophical debate when you made the post ending in "(stepping off soapbox now)"... a matter of detail that I "tactfully" decided (given the "rules" as pertaining to the Women's Forum) to give Mama a pass on when she admonished me and not you.


Second, you pretty clearly stated your disagreement with prostitutes, underage drinkers and pot smokers sitting in jail while AssHat was released... or at least feigned the argument that they shouldn't sit in jail while AssHat was released? What does this have to do with anything?

Sorry, but saying so opens you to be questioned, "Do you feel such things are "not as bad?"" Others may feel differently; I do. You've yet to answer that.

Either way, I pose to you, arguing that the system deals with others differently is a weak argument IMO even when I do agree with you that AssHat shouldn't have been allowed to sign himself out of jail with posting no bail.

[Shotgun 1]

Smoking pot and prostitution are certainly "not as bad" as breaking into someone's house and acting violently toward someone else.

And personally, I don't think anyone should be in jail for smoking pot or for prostitution. I think it's pretty stupid for either of those things to be illegal.

[kbordson 8]

Although all might be illegal, violence against others is worse than just "breaking the rules"

Prostitution has problems with respect to sexually transmitted infections, sexual coercion, non-reported income and tax evasion.

Drug can have medical problems (addiction issues), lack of regulation and sales disputes, and again with the NRI/tax evasion.

But..... I still think that violent crimes have a higher level of crime against society.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

AND you and gun miss my point TOO!

What's the point of arguing how the system deals with other crimes with respect to this one!? I could give a rat's ass how the system deals with violent crimes as opposed to "breaking the rules" (as you put it) crimes, if you're going to argue that with respect to one-another.

Argue how the system deals with each in and of itself or not at all.

Wankin' that you're somehow now a "victim" because the cops didn't materialize out of thin air instantly to protect your ass doesn't make much sense to me.

In my house, Asshat would have been meet with the business end of my 12ga AND if not immediately fled, but rather had tossed a chair my way, would likely have left (or died) with load or #7.5, #4 or 00 buck in his person depending on what I had jacked up the tube at that moment... however... not being able to meet an intruder in one's own house with deadly force simply because they're they've broken in during the dead of night is yet another philosophical debate...

[LadiDadi 0]

Okay... Here goes.

For those of us just joining us, check out the thread over in the Women's Corner "Thanks for the biohazard help..." (I don't know how to put a link to that here, sorry) for the full story.



The brief-ish story is that at 3am on Sunday morning, my husband and I awoke to our dogs growling and barking and the sound of a man talking loudly in our kitchen. He was talking to someone on his cell phone (?!?). Husband runs downstairs and through the kitchen where the back door is chasing the guy out of the house. I ran downstairs and out the front door. I went out the front door because I have very limited hearing in my left ear and have a difficult telling which directions sounds are coming from. My husband grabbed the guy I have decided to call "Asshat" by the shirt tearing his shirt as Asshat pulled away. Asshat then picked up one of those very heavy metal patio chairs and threw it about 8 or so feet at my husband (thankfully missing him). My husband retreated into the house to find the phone to call 911. Then Asshat picked up another of the chairs and threw it through my dining room window.

As I was on my way out the front door, I heard my husband yelling, Asshat yelling and two loud bangs (the chairs landing on my slate patio but I didn't know what the sound was at that time) and the sound of glass breaking. I got to the end of my front porch where there is an area about six feet or so seperating my porch from the fence. Asshat was on his way over the fence and screaming something at me that I couldn't understand, cleared the fence and I ran back into the house. I ran back in to find my husband and my dogs to make sure that they were okay, to get the phone and something to use as a weapon.

Asshat left my yard via hopping over a railing that is about 8-10 feet above the sidewalk and ran up the street.

To re-cap - I man I don't know is in my house while we are asleep. The man throws a ~30 pound metal chair at my husband, another one through my dining room window and then climbs a fence coming straight at me.

He was caught, arrested and taken to the hospital to be stitched up and then was booked into jail at 9:08am on Sunday and released at 9:21pm on Monday. He posted no bail but was released on his own signature. I was informed by one of the Sargeants who responded Sunday morning that Asshat was on probation. With regards to what happened to us, he was charged with Trespassing, First Degree Destruction of Property and Assault. There is a felony burglery charge pending (because that has to go through a different court system).

My original post in the Women's Corner was asking for recommendations on how to safely clean up blood from the various surfaces that Asshat bled on after cutting the shit out of himself when he smashed my window.

As a result, I got a lot of PM's asking what happened so, to save myself the trouble of typing it over and over, I posted the story there. As the story progressed, because people were asking and concerned, I posted more details.

What I was 'on my soap box' about was my anger that he spent so little time in jail and was released with no bail; only a signature. I was, and still am, angry. Mad as hell. I have had very little sleep and jump out of my skin at the least little sound now. I vented. That's why I wrote what I did. I realized that I was venting so I made the 'soap box' comment.

I will address all of the questions you posed to me there and here. I just didn't want to do it there.

Why do I disagree with prostitutes, pot smokers and underage drinkers sitting in jail when this guy is walking free?

Prostitution is illegal. If you break the law, you will have to face consequences. I do not disagree with that. When I demanded of the prosecutors office to tell me why Asshat was released when he was on probation already and the crime against us was considered (by the prosecutor) violent I was told that it was because "The jail is crowded. We can't keep everyone."

Underage drinking is illegal. See the above statement regarding prostitution.

Pot smoking is illegal. See above...

My issue was that if the jail is too crowded and you have to let someone go, keep the violent people and the repeat offenders there and let the non-violent first timers out.

Quote

Sorry, but saying so opens you to be questioned, "Do you feel such things are "not as bad?"" Others may feel differently; I do. You've yet to answer that.

Here is your answer.

Prostitution is not as bad as breaking and entering, assault, destruction of property.

Pot smoking is not as bad as breaking and entering, assault and destruction of property.

Underage drinking is not as bad as breaking and entering, assault and destruction of property.

I'll even go one step further for you.

I think that prostitution should be legal. Repeat - I think that prostitution should be legal (and, just to be clear in case the avitar photo doesn't help - I am a woman).

I think that smoking pot should be legal. I do not use drugs of any kind and haven't since I was in college and bored. I have zero personal gain from the legalization of marijuana but I see no reason why it shouldn't be legal.

I think that if you are over the age of 18 you should be able to legally drink alcohol. The 21 age limit is simply ridiculous.

Quote

I pose to you, arguing that the system deals with others differently is a weak argument IMO even when I do agree with you that AssHat shouldn't have been allowed to sign himself out of jail with posting no bail.

I didn't argue that the system dealt with others differently. I stated it. There is no arguement there. It is a statement of fact where my specific case is concerned.

I don't know if you have ever had your heart fall out of your asshole because you think that your husband/wife/loved one has been shot or injured in some way. I don't know if you have ever had a violent stranger covered in blood, screaming at you full of rage come straight at you. I truly hope you haven't and that you never will. But, if you do, you will view the 'system' differently. I never gave it one bit of thought until this happened and the harder I work to see this case through, the more black marks I find.

I will state again that I blame no police officers. I blame no 911 operators. I blame not one single official. I am angry with a system that is faulty.

Did that answer your questions?

If I wasn't clear enough or missed something, forgive me. I am very tired and very stressed.

I also hope I don't come across as argumentative because that is not my intent. I have no problem debating this issue with anyone - I just didn't want it done in the other thread is all.

If you can't laugh at yourself, I'll be happy to do it for you.
****************************
Be like the cupcake and suck it up.

[LadiDadi 0]

Quote

Wankin' that you're somehow now a "victim" because the cops didn't materialize out of thin air instantly to protect your ass doesn't make much sense to me.

I was pissed that it took 45 minutes and two 911 calls for the cops to come not because I needed them to protect me but because I wanted Asshat to be caught. Unless the cop was in my house when Asshat invited himself in, the cops can't protect me in that situation.

I am not a "victim" because the cops didn't protect me. I am a "victim" because some herpe on the asshole of society felt that he had the right to go wherever he wanted and do whatever he wanted with a fuck all attitude. I am not a victim because no one was there to protect me. I am a victim because someone came into my home and wreaked havoc on it and us.

Quote

being able to meet an intruder in one's own house with deadly force simply because they're they've broken in during the dead of night is yet another philosophical debate

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this statement. What does the middle of the night have to do with posession of a firearm or not? I do not own a firearm of any kind. I do not own one because my husband is not comfortable having one in the house. Anyone who knows about firearm safety will tell you that someone who is uncomfortable with a gun having access to one is a very, very dangerous thing.

If/when it was just me, there was always a firearm available. I can not and will not ignore my husband's comfort level. I will, however, begin heavy negotiations...

If you can't laugh at yourself, I'll be happy to do it for you.
****************************
Be like the cupcake and suck it up.

[Baksteen 84]

Quote

What's the point of arguing how the system deals with other crimes with respect to this one!?

The actual point (as I uynderstand it) is that the people who committed transgressions were kept while the suspect of a felony walked.
Why not keep the felony in the vault and release someone who comitted a transgression and already had been in the joint for a period of time instead?

I see the problems with that kind of reasoning, but I understand it too.

Quote

In my house, Asshat would have been meet with the business end of my 12ga /reply]
Where's that roll-eyes smiley when you need one?
Easy for you to say, but until you've been in that situation there's no telling what you'd do.
Here's my thoughts on the subject that I sent in a PM to Ladidadi when this thread wasn't in SC yet.

Quote

Bear in mind that little friends are the ultimate threat - Keep in mind you might have to act upon it and what it'll mean for the rest of your life.
If you don't (or can't) pull the trigger at the critical moment... a weapon you don't know how to use belongs to your enemy.
And if you DO pull the trigger.. the day after you'll still have to look into a mirror.

Besides, the difficulty is not in what would happen when Asshat is unarmed, but in what will happen when he is. Are you SURE you could pull that trigger?

(edited for mis-quoting ZigZag)

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

• Quote

[LadiDadi 0]

Quote

I see the problems with that kind of reasoning, but I understand it too.

The reasoning is faulty, for certain. ALL reasoning is faulty. It's faulty because human beings and all of their experiences and thoughts and opinions are involved. That's basic Sociology 101 stuff.

The point was that the pettiest of petty criminals get parked in jail and a person accused of multiple crimes of violence walks free and the 'justification' I was given was "overcrowding".

Quote

Besides, the difficulty is not in what would happen when Asshat is unarmed, but in what will happen when he is. Are you SURE you could pull that trigger?

I assumed that he was armed. I thought that he was. Remember me mentioning the yelling and then the two loud bangs? I did believe that, when he was facing me coming over the fence towards me, he was armed. I also believed at that moment that he had caused some sort of serious physical harm to my husband. Am I SURE I could have pulled the trigger? You bet your ass I could - and would - have. I remember at that moment screaming to myself in my head "GODDAMNIT WHY DON'T I HAVE A FUCKING GUN?!?!"

And to clarify what transpired in the PM conversation with regards to weapons. He wrote "a weapon you don't know how to use belongs to your enemy."

I know very well how to use several different kinds of guns. Hell, I even got the opportunity to shoot a flame thrower this summer. Now if only my house was't wooden...

If you can't laugh at yourself, I'll be happy to do it for you.
****************************
Be like the cupcake and suck it up.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In Reply To
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Just because someone caught doing that stays in jail while, in her case, AssHat is let out on his own signature without having to post bail (while I agree AssHat shouldn't have been) is irrelevant.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No it's not. The ability of a local jail system to absorb new inmates awaiting trial is one of the numerous factors that arraignment judges consider, even if only tacitly, when setting bail. The more inmates currently in a jail on minor and/or non-violent charges, the less ability that jail has to absorb new pretrial inmates.

That all may be true, but whining that so and so and such and such sat in jail while AssHat was let out is nothing more than that. A Whine.

[LadiDadi 0]

I'm not sure what your issue is with me and with all of this but it seems like you have a pretty major one. Care to elaborate?

There is a difference between making a statement, asking questions and whining, I believe. I also believe that at no point was I whining. To get technical and personal and open up a bit of my personal privacy to you - in all of this I have shed tears only one time.

I'm not crying about what happened.

I'm not whining about what happened.

I'm slogging through a system that DOES NOT WORK and trying to make sense where there is none and I am mad as hell.

If you don't understand the dichotomy between whining and anger then maybe we need to start another thread to sort that out.

Pointing out that a non-violent, first time offender stays in jail while a violent, repeat offender is released on a signature and I am told it is because of overcrowding is not whining.

It is pointing out a huge disparity in the legal system.

Perhaps it is because this is the written word and we can't have this conversation face to face that you think I am whining. Perhaps, and good god I hope this isn't true, you think I'm whining because I'm female...? I don't know.

You did mention in the other thread in the Women Only section - and even posted a link to the Remington website - the weapon you would have used to dispach Asshat. (the post has since been removed because the link was inappropriate for that section).

Do you have a problem with me because I didn't shoot him and you think that my desire to see justice done by the legal 'system' constitutes whining?

Now that this discussion is taking place in a forum that it is appropriate to bring up such things, let me tell you this:

I did not shoot Asshat because I did not have a gun. I did not have a gun because my husband has always been uncomfortable with the idea of having a gun in the house and I respect that - I understand that a gun around someone who is uncomfortable with one is a very dangerous situation. I respect my husband and his wishes and feelings about firearms. We were raised very differently and he never once had a firearm in his hand until my father placed one in it to teach him how to handle one.

I grew up with guns in the house, knowing where all of them were and how and when to use them. When I lived alone, I had a gun in my home at all times. This changed when my husband and I began to live together out of my respect for his feelings.

I guaran-fucking-tee you that if I had had a gun in my hand in the wee hours of Sunday morning, I would have shot that motherfucker without a moment's hesitation. Period. If I had killed him, it would have been an accident, but I would have shot him. Having never shot anyone in my entire life, I can't tell you how I would have felt later that day, but I can tell you that even now, I wish I had had a gun.

Does regret equal whining? I hope not.

If you can't laugh at yourself, I'll be happy to do it for you.
****************************
Be like the cupcake and suck it up.

[livendive 8]

[replyThat all may be true, but whining that so and so and such and such sat in jail while AssHat was let out is nothing more than that. A Whine.

Dude...if you don't like it, stay out of the women's forum.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[LadiDadi 0]

The entirety of a post that was made by ZigZagMarquis in the Women's forum a few minutes ago. Some were questioning the validity of his statements being made there and not in this forum and recommending that the discussion be moved to this area. My response to one of those people is the quote in the begining of his post below:

Quote

Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


He started a thread over there about this so he could try to punch me with my own fist.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Excuse me, why do you think you can get away with saying that? I realize there are lattitudes granted here that aren't elsewhere... I don't like it... but it is what it is.


No. I wasn't trying to punch you with your own fist.

If I had wanted to do that, believe me, there would have been no doubt.

I was trying to point out that while you had a good point that AssHat, having committed a violent crime, shouldn't have been released on his onw signature without having to post bail, arguements that others having committed other crimes... crimes which YOU and others clearly imply "ain't no big deal, man... who cares if I smoke a little pot, get caught drinking beer and I ain't 21 or screw for some money, man"... are irrelavant to me. If you want to convince someone that there should be some change made, maybe you ought to consider a different approach. You don't want to listen. You don't have to.

As for what happened to you and yours. I'm glad to know y'all were not hurt. Things can be repaired or replaced or done without. As for the rest. Tuff Shit, get over it, life isn't fair.

I'm done with this. Like Sparky says...

******************************
Regarding 'punching me with my own fist'

Quote

Excuse me, why do you think you can get away with saying that?

I think I can get away with saying that you are trying to punch me with my own fist due to the fact that you had previously taken my own words out of context, misquoted them as well, and used them as a way to somehow imply that I was wrong, whining, or whatever other word you want to use.

Quote

If I had wanted to do that, believe me, there would have been no doubt.

Oh for fuck's sake...

Quote

If you want to convince someone that there should be some change made, maybe you ought to consider a different approach.

I wasn't trying to convince anyone of anything. I was merely stating FACTS and then inserted my opinion. If you were to look at the history of why that thread was started in the first place, the thread it evolved out of and the private messages I received where people were asking me about what had happened and what the current state of things were, it might be clearer. I don't need to convince anyone here of anything. My battle with 'the system' and all those involved is so very, very different than me sharing a story and venting anger on a web forum.

Quote

You don't want to listen. You don't have to.

I have read every single word you have written. I have read your words two and, sometimes, three times before replying to them. I think that maybe you are more trying to say that I don't agree with you rather than I don't listen to you. Not changing my mind about something is very different than not listening to another's opinion about something.

Quote

As for what happened to you and yours. I'm glad to know y'all were not hurt. Things can be repaired or replaced or done without.

Here, I couldn't agree with you more. I am not physically hurt, my husband is not physically hurt, my dogs are not physically hurt. The cat could give a shit... My dining room window and the storm window that was covering it are gone. The items that were on the ledge below the window are destroyed and three of them had incredible sentimental value to me and all three were unique items and can not be replaced. It sucks but I don't care in the end. It's just stuff. That's all. Asshat could have burnt the house down or blown it off its foundation and I would not care as long as everything with a pulse was unharmed.

Quote

As for the rest. Tuff Shit, get over it, life isn't fair.

Tough shit, get over it? I will. Eventually. The fact that you say this to me is just strange...

Life isn't fair. I've not requested any different since I was about 8 years old or so.

If you can't laugh at yourself, I'll be happy to do it for you.
****************************
Be like the cupcake and suck it up.