JohnRich 4 #26 October 10, 2008 QuoteYou included only the 3 "other" firearm deaths, and left out homicide and suicide firearm deaths. Because homicide and suicide aren't caused by guns - they're caused by murderers and depression. Murderers will still kill if they can't get a gun, and suicidal people will still kill themselves by some other means. Thus, the gun is not a causal factor in those deaths. The presence of an inanimate object (a gun) does not make normal people suddenly turn into murderous or suicidal zombies. The 3 deaths which I cited were the accidental ones, whereby, if not for the presence of the firearm, the fatality would not have happened. Even if you disagree with all that, above, there's still a lot of children drowning in pools and bathtubs, due to irresponsible loonies. But there is no national outcry for more pool-control regulations... You get a gold star for actually bothering to read the report. Thank you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,230 #27 October 10, 2008 QuoteQuoteYou included only the 3 "other" firearm deaths, and left out homicide and suicide firearm deaths. Because homicide and suicide aren't caused by guns - they're caused by murderers and depression. . Come on John - no one is going to buy that line.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 334 #28 October 10, 2008 Certainly some of the firearm homicides and suicides would be done other ways, in absence of easy gun access. Interestingly, some other states have more suffocation suicides than gunshot. OTOH, a good number of homicides from gunshot wouldn't happen by other method. Guns just work really well for that compared to the alternatives, which require more planning and/or strength, and more risk of not succeeding. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,230 #29 October 10, 2008 Quote Guns just work really well for that compared to the alternatives, which require more planning and/or strength, and more risk of not succeeding. Explains why homicidal maniacs prefer guns.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,173 #30 October 10, 2008 >Explains why homicidal maniacs prefer guns. A typical gun-hating fabrication! You must have ignored the NRA's latest reports on the number of murderers who drive around inner city neighborhoods towing swimming pools to drown their victims in. But I guess those FACTS would be inconvenient for your gun-o-phobe diatribe! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,230 #31 October 10, 2008 Quote>Explains why homicidal maniacs prefer guns. A typical gun-hating fabrication! You must have ignored the NRA's latest reports on the number of murderers who drive around inner city neighborhoods towing swimming pools to drown their victims in. But I guess those FACTS would be inconvenient for your gun-o-phobe diatribe! Those drive by drownings are a big problem in Chicago. And I bet you can't prove that the criminals bought their pools legally rather than stealing them.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #32 October 10, 2008 QuoteThose drive by drownings are a big problem in Chicago. And I bet you can't prove that the criminals bought their pools legally rather than stealing them. Making fun of drowned children. Very classy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,644 #33 October 10, 2008 There are quite a few pool regulations, and a hue and cry for improvement in enforcement of them whenever there's an accidental drowning. And yeah, guns don't jump up and shoot people by themselves. But, especially when combined with hormones, anger, depression, or alcohol, they do make violence easier and less messy. At least in the short run, but hormones, anger, depression and alcohol all tend to lead to short-term thinking. "Hold my beer and watch this" That said, I'm the mom who used to take her son to the gun range. But sometimes prevention is better than punishment, and I'm not entirely sure where the line between keeping guns out of the hands of malefactors, and punishing malefactors once a crime has been committed, should be. Ha! Diagram THAT sentence! Wendy W. There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #34 October 10, 2008 QuoteBecause homicide and suicide aren't caused by guns - they're caused by murderers and depression. Murderers will still kill if they can't get a gun, and suicidal people will still kill themselves by some other means. Thus, the gun is not a causal factor in those deaths. The presence of an inanimate object (a gun) does not make normal people suddenly turn into murderous or suicidal zombies. Even if you disagree with all that, above, there's still a lot of children drowning in pools and bathtubs, due to irresponsible loonies. But there is no national outcry for more pool-control regulations... That's like saying somebody that died in a car crash after falling asleep at the wheel died from sleeping and not a MVA. Or that the cause of death after being shot in the head by a jealous husband was jealousy, not a gunshot wound. Actually, we do have a bit of an outcry around here whenever little kids drown; sometimes a very big one. The last round resulted in new legislation after a little girl got her bowels sunctioned right out of her body by a floor drain at a public pool. My observation is that, at least around here, there is more action from a drowning death than a gunshot death." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #35 October 10, 2008 How did a thread on pool safety get morphed into a debate on guns and crime? Seems to have strayed, or at least pushed the bounds of relevance; or was that the intention? I mean, I thought I was joining a thread on pool safety and it turned into a platform for . . . ?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,173 #36 October 10, 2008 >Because homicide and suicide aren't caused by guns - they're caused >by murderers and depression. Well, then, swimming pool drownings aren't caused by swimming pools! They're caused by people who can't swim. Or gravity. Or having lots of heavy stuff in your pockets. No need to worry about fences around swimming pools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #37 October 10, 2008 Quote>Because homicide and suicide aren't caused by guns - they're caused >by murderers and depression. Well, then, swimming pool drownings aren't caused by swimming pools! They're caused by people who can't swim. Or gravity. Or having lots of heavy stuff in your pockets. No need to worry about fences around swimming pools! bubble wrap also provides protections against gravity and heavy pockets ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #38 October 10, 2008 Quote You know,....if we wrap everyone with government supplied bubble wrap, they'd be safe from minor bumps and collisions, and also would be much more buoyant. think about it LOL thanks for the laugh man. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #39 October 10, 2008 QuoteHow did a thread on pool safety get morphed into a debate on guns and crime? That was kallend, and it only took him to message #3 to do it. He's obsessed with mentally ill gun killers, and tries to turn every discussion into that subject. Even though there are many other things which kill just as many, or more, people. I guess none of these other causes of death are really important. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,230 #40 October 10, 2008 Quote Quote How did a thread on pool safety get morphed into a debate on guns and crime? That was kallend, and it only took him to message #3 to do it. . Perhaps you should re-read post#3. GUNS aren't mentioned AT ALL. Here, I'll even make it easy for youThe first mention of guns in this thread was in post#5, and the poster was ...... JOHN RICH! (What a surprise).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #41 October 10, 2008 Quotebubble wrap also provides protections against gravity and heavy pockets . . . with Helium in the bubbles." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #42 October 10, 2008 Quote Quote Quote How did a thread on pool safety get morphed into a debate on guns and crime? That was kallend, and it only took him to message #3 to do it. . Perhaps you should re-read post#3. GUNS aren't mentioned AT ALL. Here, I'll even make it easy for youThe first mention of guns in this thread was in post#5, and the poster was ...... JOHN RICH! (What a surprise). You guys are funny. The two of you should consider hooking up as a road show. You might make some big money. Kid of like when Timothy Leary and Gordon Liddy were doing their thing. Just funning you. Happy weekend, blue skies. The Pirana has left the building." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #43 October 10, 2008 bub ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #44 October 10, 2008 ble ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #45 October 10, 2008 wrap ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #46 October 10, 2008 John, you left out people who do swan dives into empty pools.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #47 October 10, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteHow did a thread on pool safety get morphed into a debate on guns and crime? That was kallend, and it only took him to message #3 to do it. Perhaps you should re-read post#3. GUNS aren't mentioned AT ALL. Okay, you didn't use the word "gun". But when you mention "the weapon of choice of homicidal maniacs" it's real easy for anyone here familiar with your gun posts to know what that means. And I'm pretty sure you're not talking about rocket motors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,230 #48 October 10, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote How did a thread on pool safety get morphed into a debate on guns and crime? That was kallend, and it only took him to message #3 to do it. Perhaps you should re-read post#3. GUNS aren't mentioned AT ALL. Okay, you didn't use the word "gun". . No, I didn't. But you did.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,173 #49 October 10, 2008 >That was kallend, and it only took him to message #3 to do it. I think it's funny that you automatically associate the term "homicidal maniacs" with "gun users." What about your crusade against model rocket motors? If you're really scared of them in the hands of killers, why did you assume that those homicidal maniacs used guns instead of swimming pools or model rocket engines to kill their victims? Why do you always assume that it's gun owners who commit all the crimes? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #50 October 10, 2008 QuoteWell, I haven't posted many threads lately, so I'm making up for lost time. Besides, I'm done now. I think the readers will get my point. All but a few, anyway. With your suggested thread title, I see that you understand - the problem is not the objects, it's the loonies. What, accidents happen and people die? Now, how many stats do we have for accidents happen and people are murdered? Now, what are the preferred weapons of those people? Just wondering so we can be fair and balanced with our thoughts._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
