Troopergate to be dismissed this friday

[MikeForsythe 0]

Quote

You said you think she is guilty of abuse, but that the investigation was a waste of money. So you don' think we should investigate political abuses of power, or that you don't think we should investigate abuses of power of GOP VP candidates.

You don't understand, I am not arguing about an investigation I am arguing venue. The state personnel board that is also investigating it is the proper venue. To have a duplicate investigation was a waste of money and time.

Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

[MikeForsythe 0]

Let me put it to you this way. If someone gets arrested and the report is released prior to convection it carries vastly less weight.

Here is the reason that I think they should have just voted on it and brought it to a conclusion. What would your position be if after reviewing the report they vote against the findings that she violated the statute and rule that she did not violate any rules or laws? There is a reason that we have due process in this country.

Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Did you have a problem with the McCain camp investigation releasing their own report this week that claimed she was fully innocent and didn't do anything unethical?

Also, this was a report done by an investigator to a Legislative Council, not a jury of her peers. The penalty will come directly from that council and it won't be affected by the release of it to the public. She is looking at most a $5,000 fine and vote to censure her....something that won't happen until next year and it will be by the same council (and they are saying that vote will never happen)! There will be no arrest and there will be no criminal or civil trial like you are thinking. Sure, I would agree with you if this was a typical judicial/jury hearing but it isn't. This is legislative! The taxpayers paid for this and they deserve to hear the results no matter what they are. Full disclosure was needed.

The ONLY reason anyone would want this delayed is so it couldn't give the McCain/Palin ticket a huge political black eye. I'm not sure how hiding it would be fair to the people.

Yes, we have due process and it was done with this investigation and it began before Palin was ever tagged for Veep and NO ONE outside of Alaska cared about it at the time.

edit: I also thought that political based signature were fully banned from dz.com. I know they were in the 2004 election and I think kallend suffered a small ban over his back then.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Andy9o8 2]

Imploding.

[lummy 4]

Even McCain is seeing the writing on the wall

Quote

I have to tell you. Sen. Obama is a decent person and a person you don’t have to be scared of as president of the United States," McCain told a supporter at a town hall meeting in Minnesota who said he was “scared” of the prospect of an Obama presidency

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[Amazon 7]

I already have Mike. It was very difficult for me to look into John McCain’s past and truly see who the man is, how he was raised, and how he has lived his life. I see a very angry self obsessed man who bases many of his decisions in life by great thought with his little head and not the big one. I really do regret voting for him twice, but I did not have all of that information in 2000 and I had not paid attention until around the time of the conventions. I cannot vote for a man who has been so abusive to those around him for all of his life. I grew up around abusive men and I refuse to be victimized by them.

Then we have Sarah Palin. She does not have the intellect to lead us and it has been shown by this incident that her personal agenda is more important than ethics and good government. This incident alone is a foreshadowing of things to come Mike. Sorry but we do not need a “hockey mom” with a mean streak with her finger on the button to lead this nation in this day and age.

The people you are supporting are being handled and backed by the same people who have done such a great job of bilking our country for the last 7 years. I am sick to death of the status quo and the only way to stop it is to get rid of those who are currently doing such a lousy job. The people you are supporting are just new window dressing on the very same group that are devoid of anything but the interest to continue their hold on our throats and destroy our financial future.

As much as I hated to do it I had to look deeply into the other candidate. The other side is Senators Obama and Biden. In Senator Obama, I see a man who is not prone to anger daily and who actually lives his Christian faith, unlike his opponent. He also is very intelligent and has used his intelligence to help other people not just himself. Obama and Biden are not perfect, but at this time I think they have a far better chance at bringing real change to our country and give us a chance of a future in which I might even be able to retire one day.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

edit: I also thought that political based signature were fully banned from dz.com. I know they were in the 2004 election and I think kallend suffered a small ban over his back then.

That only applies to me

My signature line was removed forever because I put a link to the chickenhawk website in mine and some of our right wing "friends" did not like it and complained.

Other people can do what ever the want

[MikeForsythe 0]

Quote

Did you have a problem with the McCain camp investigation releasing their own report this week that claimed she was fully innocent and didn't do anything unethical?

Did I have a problem with it, no. Do I think that it is worthless and a waste of time, yes.

Quote

Also, this was a report done by an investigator to a Legislative Council, not a jury of her peers. The penalty will come directly from that council and it won't be affected by the release of it to the public. She is looking at most a $5,000 fine and vote to censure her....something that won't happen until next year and it will be by the same council (and they are saying that vote will never happen)! There will be no arrest and there will be no criminal or civil trial like you are thinking. Sure, I would agree with you if this was a typical judicial/jury hearing but it isn't. This is legislative! The taxpayers paid for this and they deserve to hear the results no matter what they are. Full disclosure was needed.

On this part you are wrong. Any fine will come from the personnel board according to the panel. Also why do you keep fighting the “full disclosure” battle as no one has brought it up but you?

Quote

The ONLY reason anyone would want this delayed is so it couldn't give the McCain/Palin ticket a huge political black eye. I'm not sure how hiding it would be fair to the people.

I agree

Quote

edit: I also thought that political based signature were fully banned from dz.com. I know they were in the 2004 election and I think kallend suffered a small ban over his back then.

I was informed in writing by a moderator that I could have the sig line as long as I don’t post outside of SC which I have not and will not until after the election at which time I will remove the sig line.

Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

[billvon 3,111]

>I also thought that political based signature were fully banned from dz.com.

They are everywhere outside Speaker's Corner. So if all you do is post in Speaker's Corner they are OK, but if you post anywhere else then it's a problem.

So note to MikeForsythe - political .sigs are OK here, but you may not post anywhere else in DZ.com until you change that.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Quote

On this part you are wrong. Any fine will come from the personnel board according to the panel. Also why do you keep fighting the “full disclosure” battle as no one has brought it up but you?

I went back and looked it up and I did read it wrong:

Quote

Branchflower said Palin violated a statute of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act. Lawmakers don't have the authority to sanction her for such a violation, and they gave no indication they would take any action against her.

Under Alaska law, it is up to the state's Personnel Board _ which is conducting its own investigation into the matter _ to decide whether Palin violated state law and, if so, must refer it to the Senate president for disciplinary action. Violations also carry a possible fine of up to $5,000.

So do you think this will impact the personnel board? I think it was one of the east coast papers that claimed that no action would be taken against her because there was not enough votes for it. So it seems moot.

Full disclosure: Not releasing the findings goes against that. So even if the word wasn't spoken, the topic was brought up. I still personally feel that the report needed to be released.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Full disclosure: Not releasing the findings goes against that. So even if the word wasn't spoken, the topic was brought up. I still personally feel that the report needed to be released.

For a campaign that is supposedly the "Straight Talk Express" the American people are certainly being fed a whole bunch of double talk from that campaign.

[MikeForsythe 0]

Quote

I think it was one of the east coast papers that claimed that no action would be taken against her because there was not enough votes for it. So it seems moot.

I don't think there will be any action against her but I don't think it was moot. I think it sent a clear message to her that everyone is accountable for their actions. Also if she has any sense at all she will tell Todd to stay away from her work!

Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

[billvon 3,111]

> I think it sent a clear message to her that everyone is accountable for
> their actions. Also if she has any sense at all she will tell Todd to stay
> away from her work!

Agreed, and that's probably the one good thing that will come out of all of this. Despite her denials I think she'll realize that she made a bad decision, and hopefully will avoid such decisions in the future.

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Well, she was found to have abused her power, but not to have violated any Alaskan laws. I read about 50 pages of the findings/testimony, etc., and it is interesting. Not a trait that I want in public office, although I would say nearly all elected officials are guilty of similar actions/inactions.

Welll then she's presidential material .....why not, the Repubs elected Nixon after the Watergate scandla was known, just not known how deep Nixon was in it. Then Agnew resigned as VP for tax evasion and other goodies. So WTF, Palin has a good jump on them in neo-con terms.

I think it's repulsive to think a governor of a small state, local community like that is firing police chiefs for not doing their dirty work, but hey, that's just me. At the same time, she'll make good marriage for the Bush third term with actions like that. This dismissal of her actions under, they all do it is just nuts.

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

I find it amazing that the panel finds that she violated her position of power, only to have her supporters make excuses that she didn't do it for financial gain.

Lets be honest here folks, if it was Obama a lot of you would be crying out for blood.

Ian

Right Clinton and Scooty Libbey were charged with the same thing, Clinton was not convicted in a political court, Libby was convicted in a criminal court with a much higher standard of proof/tighter admissions standards and the result was that Bush commuted him.

I'm surre the Republican faithful find that justified and equal........(enter crickets).....

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Quote

Err, denial much? http://www.comcast.net/...0/Palin.Troopergate/

No, but you might want to read your source:

"But the panel of lawmakers voted to release the report, although not without dissension. There was no immediate vote on whether to endorse its findings."

I give you credit for the stamina to hang in here and defend and obviously moot point.

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

It is a shame that you, billvon, kallend and andy9o8 exhausted all of that energy for nothing. Read my original response slowly and carefully. I never defended what she did and in fact I think she did use her position to try and get Wooton fired. I asked a question about the statute that the investigator used because I don’t see a “personal gain”.

Now if you had read what I wrote you would have seen that I was pissed at the panel for being spineless for not rendering a ruling on the report. As it is now there is nothing out there except a persons report. The panel should have endorsed/not endorsed or partially endorsed the submitted findings of the investigator. That would have probably given the report more credibility. Voting to just release the report is meaningless.

I also think it was a personal vendetta against Palin that cost the tax payers $100,000 to prove nothing more than what the personnel board will come with. That is in place and the proper venue to handle this issue.

>>>>>>>>>>>>I also think it was a personal vendetta against Palin that cost the tax payers $100,000 to prove nothing more than what the personnel board will come with. That is in place and the proper venue to handle this issue.


Meanwhile you thought the Clinton impeachment that didn't even come close to a conviction and the State of Oklahoma trying Terry Nichols spending 4 milliion dollars leading to more life sentences on top of his several existing was a good idea, right?

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Let me put it to you this way. If someone gets arrested and the report is released prior to convection it carries vastly less weight.

Here is the reason that I think they should have just voted on it and brought it to a conclusion. What would your position be if after reviewing the report they vote against the findings that she violated the statute and rule that she did not violate any rules or laws? There is a reason that we have due process in this country.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>There is a reason that we have due process in this country.


Which is why you're adamantly pissed about the OJ conviction.

SIXTH AMENDMENT: In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed,...

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment06/

JURROR QUESTIONAIRES: Jury questionnaires released Saturday revealed five of the jurors in O.J. Simpson's Las Vegas, Nevada, robbery trial said they disagreed with the 1995 verdict where he was found not guilty of two murders.


http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/10/04/simpson.jury/index.html


See, Mike, when we ignore process for the person involved, we lose everything substantial. IOW's, if we selctively allocate extremely high due process for some people, marginal or strict procedural process rather than substantive due process for all, then the whole argument turns partisan, which is what this is.

You can't honestly think Palin got procedurally fucked and think OJ got a fair trial. And teh kicker is that his was US Constitutionally guaranteed, hers was an administrative procedure, not covered by the US Const unless in a distant civil sense.

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Imploding.

http://news.webshots.com/photo/2456682930037620307VrRYwJ

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Quote

Full disclosure: Not releasing the findings goes against that. So even if the word wasn't spoken, the topic was brought up. I still personally feel that the report needed to be released.

For a campaign that is supposedly the "Straight Talk Express" the American people are certainly being fed a whole bunch of double talk from that campaign.

I've got 1 word for you, missy........ MAVERICK

[Lucky... 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GSRy2p54K8&feature=user

[kallend 2,146]

Quote

> I think it sent a clear message to her that everyone is accountable for
> their actions. Also if she has any sense at all she will tell Todd to stay
> away from her work!

Agreed, and that's probably the one good thing that will come out of all of this. Despite her denials I think she'll realize that she made a bad decision, and hopefully will avoid such decisions in the future.

You reckon? As far as I can see she and her supporters are claiming it's all OK because she did nothing illegal.

So maybe now she'll shut up about Obama's perfectly LEGAL board membership of the Annenberg Challenge. But somehow I doubt it.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,111]

> As far as I can see she and her supporters are claiming it's all OK
>because she did nothing illegal.

Yeah, I know she's saying that. But still, if the same situation presents itself, I think she's smart enough to learn from her mistakes.

[headoverheels 334]

Quote

Yeah, I know she's saying that. But still, if the same situation presents itself, I think she's smart enough to learn from her mistakes.

You mean that she won't keep her grandbaby's father from getting into Alaska U when he dumps her daugher after the election?

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Quote

Yeah, I know she's saying that. But still, if the same situation presents itself, I think she's smart enough to learn from her mistakes.

You mean that she won't keep her grandbaby's father from getting into Alaska U when he dumps her daugher after the election?

The Secret Svs will keep the shotgun at his head not only during the wedding, but for her entire term if she wins.