0
nerdgirl

More folks who don’t like women with guns …

Recommended Posts

… or any other autonomous rights.

From the BBC: Top Afghan Policewoman Shot Dead
“Lt-Col Malalai Kakar, head of Kandahar's department of crimes against women, was shot in her car as she was about to leave for work. Her son was also wounded in the attack, and is said to be seriously injured.

“Taleban rebels, who banned women from joining the police when they were in power, said they had carried out the shooting.

“‘We killed Malalai Kakar,’ a Taleban spokesman told AFP news agency. ‘She was our target, and we successfully eliminated our target.’

“The BBC's Martin Patience in Kabul says Ms Kakar was one of only a few hundred female police officers in Afghanistan and that she had previously received death threats.

“Ms Kakar, who was reported to be in her early 40s and had six children, was one of the most high-profile women in the country. She has figured prominently in the national and international media, partly due to a famous episode in which she killed three would-be assassins in a shoot-out - although she said her everyday life involved tackling theft, fights and murders.

“Ms Kakar joined Kandahar's police force in 1982, after her father and brothers were also police officers. But when the hard-line Taleban regime took over Afghanistan she was prevented from working.”


UK's The Independent followed today, “Women Who Took on the Taliban – and Lost

Of five prominent women interviewed three years ago by The Independent for an article on post-Taliban female emancipation, three, including Ms Kakar, are dead and a fourth has had to flee after narrowly escaping assassination in an ambush in which her husband was killed.

“Religious fundamentalists [radical Islamists – nerdgirl] are waging a ruthless campaign to eliminate women who have taken up high-profile jobs. Parliamentarians, schoolteachers, civil servants, security officials and women journalists ["high profile" = teacher? - nerdgirl] have been selected for attacks by the jihadists. Countless others have been maimed and murdered in villages where the vengeful Taliban have returned to impose the old order.

“In the case of Malalai Kakar, the most prominent policewoman in Afghanistan, an additional ‘crime’ which sealed her fate was that she was a determined and effective campaigner for women's rights. Commander Kakar, 40, knew her work made her a Taliban target. She led a unit of 10 policewomen specialising in domestic violence cases. She was uncompromising with suspected abusers, men who in the past had relied on male police officers to turn a blind eye.”


Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Religious fundamentalists are waging a ruthless campaign to eliminate women who have taken up high-profile jobs. Parliamentarians, schoolteachers, civil servants, security officials and women journalists have been selected for attacks by the jihadists. Countless others have been maimed and murdered in villages where the vengeful Taliban have returned to impose the old order."



And Obama and Biden want the U.S. to pull out and let these animals rule again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Religious fundamentalists are waging a ruthless campaign to eliminate women who have taken up high-profile jobs. Parliamentarians, schoolteachers, civil servants, security officials and women journalists have been selected for attacks by the jihadists. Countless others have been maimed and murdered in villages where the vengeful Taliban have returned to impose the old order."



And Obama and Biden want the U.S. to pull out and let these animals rule again.



Do you have any evidence to support that assertion w/r/t Afghanistan?

E.g., Sen Obama has stated his policy is the opposite to that which you claim:
"'If we responsibly end the war in Iraq, we can strengthen our military, step up our efforts to finish the fight against Al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan, and succeed in leaving Iraq to a sovereign government that can take responsibility for its own future,' Obama said at his first news conference since touring Afghanistan and Iraq [in July].

"'The situation in Afghanistan is perilous and urgent,' he said, calling the country the 'central front in the war against terrorism.'

"'We must act now to reverse a deteriorating situation,' [Sen Obama] said.
Sen Obama's lead defense advisor, former NavSec Richard Danzig, has praised SecDef Gates specifically citing "Gates' push to increase U.S. forces in Afghanistan and to increase greatly the size of the Afghan national army. 'These are things that Sen. Obama agrees with and I agree with.'"

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

And Obama and Biden want the U.S. to pull out and let these animals rule again.




Ooops.. I guess your blinders messed up yet again John.

They KNOW where the people are who actually attacked us.. I bet they actually will get results in Afghanistan because they will listen to the people who want to do a good job there.... not the sycophants who have been running the effort that let Bin Laden get away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Quote

Religious fundamentalists are waging a ruthless campaign to eliminate women who have taken up high-profile jobs. Parliamentarians, schoolteachers, civil servants, security officials and women journalists have been selected for attacks by the jihadists. Countless others have been maimed and murdered in villages where the vengeful Taliban have returned to impose the old order."



And Obama and Biden want the U.S. to pull out and let these animals rule again.


Do you have any evidence to support that assertion w/r/t Afghanistan?

E.g., Sen Obama has stated his policy is the opposite to that which you claim:
"'If we responsibly end the war in Iraq, we can strengthen our military, step up our efforts to finish the fight against Al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan, and succeed in leaving Iraq to a sovereign government that can take responsibility for its own future,' Obama said at his first news conference since touring Afghanistan and Iraq [in July].

"'The situation in Afghanistan is perilous and urgent,' he said, calling the country the 'central front in the war against terrorism.'

"'We must act now to reverse a deteriorating situation,' [Sen Obama] said.
Sen Obama's lead defense advisor, former NavSec Richard Danzig, has praised SecDef Gates specifically citing "Gates' push to increase U.S. forces in Afghanistan and to increase greatly the size of the Afghan national army. 'These are things that Sen. Obama agrees with and I agree with.'"

VR/Marg


What he has said has been largley dependant on his audience[:/]
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Religious fundamentalists are waging a ruthless campaign to eliminate women who have taken up high-profile jobs. Parliamentarians, schoolteachers, civil servants, security officials and women journalists have been selected for attacks by the jihadists. Countless others have been maimed and murdered in villages where the vengeful Taliban have returned to impose the old order."



And Obama and Biden want the U.S. to pull out and let these animals rule again.




Certain influential people believe that pulling ISAF out would quicken the demise of the Taliban...

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, I see that everyone has had a bit of fun at my expense. Fine.

Now, first I want you to take off that hat you're wearing that says "Knee-Jerk Partisan" on it. Because that's all those responses were - knee jerk partisan political BS.

Yes, I know the original poster's story was about the Taliban in Afghanistan, but I was making a point about the Taliban in Iraq.

Second, pick up the hat that says "Think" on it, and put that on your heads instead. You've got one of those, right?

It's a shame that your first impulse is the knee-jerk partisanship, instead of thinking.

Okay, now we're ready. I'm going to walk you through my point this time, instead of just trying to depend upon you to think critically enough to understand it the first time. Here goes.

1) The Taliban previously exerted a large influence in Iraq.
2) America has sent the Taliban fleeing.
3) Obama wants to cut-and-run from Iraq.
4) If America leaves Iraq, the Taliban will return.
5) An unfettered Taliban in Iraq will do just as they have with the original poster's news story.
6) Thus, the story about the Taliban in Afghanistan has relevance to Iraq.

Hence, my original comment: "And Obama and Biden want the U.S. to pull out and let these animals rule again."

Did you get it this time?

Good. You may now remove your "Think" caps, and return to your regularly scheduled knee-jerk partisan political BS. That is all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
>Second, pick up the hat that says "Think" on it, and put that on your heads instead.

Of all the knees on this forum, Marg's jerks the least. To reply to one of the most level-headed posters on this forum and accuse her of knee-jerking, and THEN include the requisite JohnRich partisan smear ("And Obama and Biden want the U.S. to pull out and let these animals rule again") is about as ironic as it gets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

1) The Taliban previously exerted a large influence in Iraq.
2) America has sent the Taliban fleeing. INTO PAKISTAN and 60 or so OTHER countries
3) Obama wants to cut-and-run from Iraq. 16 months to withdraw and let the fuckin Iraqis die for their own country aint cutting and running.. unless you PERSONALLY want to go play WAR for the next 100 years like your NEW WOULD BE LEADER wants.
4) If America leaves Iraq, the Taliban will return. BWAHAHAHAHAHAthat is whacked
5) An unfettered Taliban in Iraq will do just as they have with the original poster's news story. PSSST they are doing that in AFGHANISTAN not IRAQ... here check this map http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=iraq&ie=UTF8&ll=29.993002,56.074219&spn=51.428152,75.761719&z=4&layer=c
Notice there is a whole very large country called IRAN between them
6) Thus, the story about the Taliban in Afghanistan has relevance to Iraq.



Uh John....
you do know there is a wee bit of difference between Al Queda.. and the Taliban....right???:S:S:S

Most of the insurgents in Iraq.. are Iraqi's... there are some Al queda there now.. after we gave them a perfect place to come and git some...provided by your Incompetent in Chief.. who saw something shiney to go chasing after instead of finishing the job agains the Taliban.. and the foreign fighters in Afghanistan known as Al Queda...you know... the guys headed by Bin Laden....that actually attacked us???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John, nobody is making fun at you mate. They're just pointing out where they believe you're wrong.

You made 5 points. They're wrong.

Perhaps I shouldn't be so idle and explain to you why I believe them to be wrong. I won't; 'cos I reckon if I do, you'll pay these responses no regard, and spend your efforts defending your incorrect original statements.

It'll end up like a Kallend/Rushmc gangfuck - so sod that.:)


'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Well, I see that everyone has had a bit of fun at my expense. Fine.

Now, first I want you to take off that hat you're wearing that says "Knee-Jerk Partisan" on it. Because that's all those responses were - knee jerk partisan political BS.

Yes, I know the original poster's story was about the Taliban in Afghanistan, but I was making a point about the Taliban in Iraq.

Second, pick up the hat that says "Think" on it, and put that on your heads instead. You've got one of those, right?

It's a shame that your first impulse is the knee-jerk partisanship, instead of thinking.

Okay, now we're ready. I'm going to walk you through my point this time, instead of just trying to depend upon you to think critically enough to understand it the first time. Here goes.

1) The Taliban previously exerted a large influence in Iraq.
2) America has sent the Taliban fleeing.
3) Obama wants to cut-and-run from Iraq.
4) If America leaves Iraq, the Taliban will return.
5) An unfettered Taliban in Iraq will do just as they have with the original poster's news story.
6) Thus, the story about the Taliban in Afghanistan has relevance to Iraq.

Hence, my original comment: "And Obama and Biden want the U.S. to pull out and let these animals rule again."

Did you get it this time?

Good. You may now remove your "Think" caps, and return to your regularly scheduled knee-jerk partisan political BS. That is all.



John,

I asked for clarification in a non-derogative and non-patronizing way, trying to give you an opportunity to respond and to have some sort of dialogue: “Do you have any evidence to support that assertion w/r/t Afghanistan?” That’s pretty innocuous. *More importantly,* it’s also a legitimate & more-than-reasonable question.

I provided specific referenced counter-examples, including the words of the former Secretary of the Navy who is praising the current Secretary of Defense. How much more bi-partisan can one get?

And you respond with condescension and insults.

Either you were mistaken (Iraq for Afghanistan) or you did not communicate clearly what you meant. Neither is the reader’s fault. (I would argue it *is* also the reader’s responsibility to request clarification and provide evidence, not just rhetoric, of counter examples.) Getting defensive because you made a mistake or did not communicate clearly your meaning is perhaps not the best response, eh? :)
You’re better than that.
Challenge the argument. I’ve made lots of them from which you can pick.
Contest the assertion.
Engage the debate.
Show me where my analysis is flawed or information is wrong.

I function under the general assumption that if your [general and specific ‘your’] beliefs are strong enough and robust enough, they should be strengthened by vigorous challenges. Resorting to patronizing is not indicative of strength, nor are ad hominems, name calling, or red herrings. Hard questions should be asked. Arguments and opinions should be revised and reconsidered upon additional information or further consideration. Tenacity is a virtue; stubborn for being stubborn is a liability.

I also function under the general assumptions that (1) people aren’t stupid, (2) people generally don’t respond well when you treat them like they’re stupid or insult them, and (3) democracy functions better when the electorate is informed.

--- -- - -- ---

Beyond that, do you mean al Qa’eda in Iraq? The Taliban is not in Iraq. The Taliban is in Afghanistan ... & Pakistan. Beyond Kabul and Nangahar Province, the Taliban _have_ reasserted influence (e.g., see my original post in this thread). The Taliban are Pashtuns, a non-Arab ethnic group. The word “Taliban” is a Pashtun word, as opposed to “al Qa’eda,” which is Arabic. The number of Pashtuns in Iraq is very close to zero (… and if there are any Pashtun speakers in Iraq, they are most probably in MNF-I SCIFs).

Why is all that important? (aka the ‘So what? Who Cares?) If the US/MNF/NATO wants to implement and execute effectively strategic communications and counterinsurgency operations, it is to our advantage to be cognizant and adjust those operations/activities against the target and to the appropriate surrounding population, whether Sunni Arab, Shi’a Arab, Yezidi, Pashtun, Tajik, Hazara, or Baloch.

As always don’t trust me; to quote GEN McKiernan, (USA):
“What I have found after four months in Afghanistan is that the environment there is even more complex than I would have thought prior to my arrival. It’s complex in terms of geography; It’s complex in terms of demographics, of resources, or more specifically the lack of resources, to include what I normally like to refer to as the lack of human capital, the lack of -- the availability of people that can provide governance in Afghanistan, and that's probably a fact of education in many years to come.

“What I find in Afghanistan, however, is a degree of complexity in the tribal system which is much greater than what I found in Iraq years ago. [Over 400 major Pashtun tribal networks in Afghanistan, more in Pakistan – nerdgirl]

“But the question and the need to engage the tribes, to engage tribal authorities and use those values at a local level to enhance security, governance, needs of the people to be able to express grievances with the government of Afghanistan, I think, is an important concept and one that we have to continue to work in support of the government of Afghanistan.

“What I have said -- as a military officer, I’ve said that the -- ultimately the solution in Afghanistan is going to be a political solution, not a military solution. We’re not going to run out of bad guys there that want to do bad things in Afghanistan.

"So the idea that the government of Afghanistan will take on the idea of reconciliation, I think, is appropriate, and we'll be there to provide support within our mandate. It won't be a military-led operation." [i.e., not a military surge like in Iraq - nerdgirl]

Also available via DoDvClips.mil, which is what I watch online or listen to via my iPod rather than Olberman, O'Reilly, etc. [policy-geek-B|]

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Certain influential people believe that pulling ISAF out would quicken the demise of the Taliban...



Would you expand a lil' on that argument? Who's making it? And how do the proponents suggest that removing NATO troops (ISAF) will have the effect you described? Do they suggest removing the PRTs & HTTs as well? Thanks.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Certain influential people believe that pulling ISAF out would quicken the demise of the Taliban...



Would you expand a lil' on that argument? Who's making it? And how do the proponents suggest that removing NATO troops (ISAF) will have the effect you described? Do they suggest removing the PRTs & HTTs as well? Thanks.

VR/Marg



Here you go Marg: A link to whom I meant regarding the context, and a further one too.

edit: A paragraph from one of the articles:

'According to Mr Fitou, Sir Sherard told him on September 2 that the Nato-led military operation was making things worse. “The foreign forces are ensuring the survival of a regime which would collapse without them . . . They are slowing down and complicating an eventual exit from the crisis, which will probably be dramatic,” the Ambassador was quoted as saying.'

A paragraph from the other article:

'We will probably never know the real version of the conversation that took place early last month between him and Francois Fitou, the French charge d'affaires in Kabul, who wrote the diplomatic cable published by the Canard Enchaine.

Some quotes attributed to Sir Sherard may have been "exaggerated", as the FCO insists, and others, like the call for a dictator to take over in Kabul or that more Nato troops may be counter-productive, may have been completely untrue.'

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Here you go Marg: A link to whom I meant regarding the context, and a further one too.



Thanks ... hmmm ... interesting. Very interesting.

Concur w/Cowper-Coles on the fragility and possible the futility of a centralized government.

Do not agree with his recommendations, however, regarding 'priming' the populace for installment of a dictactor "acceptable" to NATO, et al. That seems like as likely a recipe for state failure, nevermind lots of normative problems to atrocities. Who's going to supply the dictator with guns, etc. to stay in power? Don't like that idea at all.

At the same time, find much value in his putting forth iconoclastic ideas that may force policy-makers to re-evaluate the nation-building strategy for/with Aghanistan. There's value in that. (Perhaps not as much in it being leaked to the press.)

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Further related articles such as this one, released a couple of days later, only increase my 'interest'. Not just on the face value of the subject matter, but what's also apparently being said between the lines and leaks.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0