Help me try to understand this re: Blacks voting for Obama

[jcd11235 0]

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Why not just call me a racist like a grown man would, instead you make thinly veiled remarks.

Hilarious, considering your accusation to Kallend that he's voting for Obama because of his race.

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When you see racism in others and make such claims, maybe you are the one that actually is practicing prejudice, and racism.

I said I suspected projection.

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If I say something regarding race, I state my opinion, but if I were to make thinly veiled statements, and try to hide my real meaning, maybe then I would be just like you and others.

Bullshit. Did you even read your own response to Kallend? Why didn't you just accuse him outright of hating whites? Could you possibly be any more hypocritical?

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[warpedskydiver 0]

I say that others may do so in a response to their own "white guilt" ignoring the true issues, and ignoring voting records because of the color of the mans skin.

It seems that if all the data is looked at, he is an unfavorable candidate, but many would feel that it would look racist if they were not to vote form him anyways.

[fasted3 0]

Chris,
Do you have the same problem understanding people that base their vote on other single issues?
IE: Abortion, gun control, gender?
There are some people that will vote for ANY idiot as long as they pass their particular litmus test.
BTW: Would you vote for a pro choice candidate?

But what do I know?

[jcd11235 0]

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I say that others may do so in a response to their own "white guilt" ignoring the true issues, and ignoring voting records because of the color of the mans skin.

Which is an absurd assertion.

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It seems that if all the data is looked at, he is an unfavorable candidate, but many would feel that it would look racist if they were not to vote form him anyways.

Unfavorable compared to whom? McCain? Sorry, but Obama's platform is far better than McCain's in the objective opinion of many people. Race has nothing to do with it.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Muenkel 0]

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BTW: Would you vote for a pro choice candidate?

Nope. My Catholic faith trumps all politics unlike the Catholics who practice cafeteria style Catholicism. If every candidate running for president was pro-choice, I'd stay home. I've got a higher power to answer to.

How's that for honesty? Some around here should try it every now and then.

For those of you who will attack me for my beliefs, save your fingers; I've heard it all. I'm a man of my convictions and will not be swayed by some 'know-it-all' who thinks only their opinion is correct.

_________________________________________
Chris

[fasted3 0]

I do appreciate your honesty. Now I have to ask you why you have trouble understanding why anybody would vote for or against Obama because of his race? Right or wrong, that is their litmus test, and they are free to use it if they wish. Personally, I disagree with this view, but I do understand that they have it. Does this answer your original question, or do you feel that your criteria is more valid than theirs?

But what do I know?

[likearock 2]

You understand of course that blacks have overwhelmingly[/url] voted for Democrats over Republicans even when race isn't a factor, right (for example, in 2004)? Under the circumstances, it's a little dangerous to make any assumptions regarding blacks voting for Obama simply because he's black. A real test would be what percentage of blacks vote for a black Republican against a white Democrat.

[kallend 2,146]

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BTW: Would you vote for a pro choice candidate?

Nope. My Catholic faith trumps all politics unlike the Catholics who practice cafeteria style Catholicism. If every candidate running for president was pro-choice, I'd stay home. I've got a higher power to answer to.

So it's OK for you to be a single issue voter, but not for blacks. OK.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Shotgun 1]

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So, blacks are moved to vote for a black president simply because of the color of his skin and with no regard to the issues that are so important to our country.

Well, you know, there are women who were Clinton supporters who are now going to vote for McCain since he put Palin on the ticket. Talk about no regard for the issues.

But I guess people vote based on whatever is important to them, and it's often going to be different from what is important to me. Personally, I would love to see a woman as President or VP, but that's not so important to me that I would vote for someone just because she's a woman.

[Andy9o8 2]

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A real test would be what percentage of blacks vote for a black Republican against a white Democrat.

There are 12 black Republicans in the entire country. What kind of test would that be?

[Muenkel 0]

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I do appreciate your honesty. Now I have to ask you why you have trouble understanding why anybody would vote for or against Obama because of his race? Right or wrong, that is their litmus test, and they are free to use it if they wish. Personally, I disagree with this view, but I do understand that they have it. Does this answer your original question, or do you feel that your criteria is more valid than theirs?

I believe every voter has the right to choose their candidate for whatever reason they wish.

I simply read an article and put it out there for discussion. In answer to your example, I do believe that a person's race or gender is not a platform. Their views on abortion is.

If a person wants to vote for a person because of their race, then so be it. It is their right.

_________________________________________
Chris

[Muenkel 0]

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You understand of course that blacks have overwhelmingly voted for Democrats over Republicans even when race isn't a factor, right (for example, in 2004)? Under the circumstances, it's a little dangerous to make any assumptions regarding blacks voting for Obama simply because he's black. A real test would be what percentage of blacks vote for a black Republican against a white Democrat.

That is true, however it is not the discussion I put out here. The article I posted was about blacks voting for a black candidate simply because he was black. I'm not validating the article, I just put the issue out there for discussion. I can flip it around and make it equal opportunity by delving into whether women are voting Republican simply because Sarah Palin is a woman. I would be confident in saying yes to that.

_________________________________________
Chris

[Muenkel 0]

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BTW: Would you vote for a pro choice candidate?

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Nope. My Catholic faith trumps all politics unlike the Catholics who practice cafeteria style Catholicism. If every candidate running for president was pro-choice, I'd stay home. I've got a higher power to answer to.

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So it's OK for you to be a single issue voter, but not for blacks. OK.

I never claimed I was a single issue voter. I simply stated that due to my strictly held religious beliefs that there is an issue that trumps the others. If that issue was off the table, which it is not as long as we have the Democratic Party holding it as an official platform; all the other issues would come back into play. Don't get me wrong, I do care about many issues and feel they are important. Like I said though is that the issue of abortion trumps them all.

I know this is just an example and not going to happen, but suppose one of the political parties adopted as an official platform the removal of tenure for professors. I think that would move to the head of the line for you.

_________________________________________
Chris

[kallend 2,146]

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BTW: Would you vote for a pro choice candidate?

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Nope. My Catholic faith trumps all politics unlike the Catholics who practice cafeteria style Catholicism. If every candidate running for president was pro-choice, I'd stay home. I've got a higher power to answer to.

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So it's OK for you to be a single issue voter, but not for blacks. OK.

I never claimed I was a single issue voter. I simply stated that due to my strictly held religious beliefs that there is an issue that trumps the others. If that issue was off the table, which it is not as long as we have the Democratic Party holding it as an official platform; all the other issues would come back into play. Don't get me wrong, I do care about many issues and feel they are important. Like I said though is that the issue of abortion trumps them all.

I know this is just an example and not going to happen, but suppose one of the political parties adopted as an official platform the removal of tenure for professors. I think that would move to the head of the line for you.

Unconvincing evasion. You admit to being a single issue voter yet question others when they do it.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jcd11235 0]

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You admit to being a single issue voter yet question others when they do it.

That's only because his beliefs are more important than anyone else's.

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[Muenkel 0]

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You admit to being a single issue voter yet question others when they do it.

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That's only because his beliefs are more important than anyone else's.

When did I claim this? I simply stated my beliefs which I have just as much right to as you do.

Do your beliefs trump mine?

I'm going to bed now, so I'll look for your answer tomorrow. That'll give you plenty of time to post a witty retort.

Good night,
Chris

_________________________________________
Chris

[mnealtx 0]

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I'd have a hard time voting for anyone who made rape victims pay for their own rape kits and forced them to bear the children of the rapist.

I have a hard time believing someone that throws out wild allegations without any proof.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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At least you are willing to vote for him because he is black.

It's funny how many people think that Obama's supporters base their support on race. Projection, I suppose.

It's funny to watch Obama's supporters constantly accuse his detractors of racism.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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BTW: Would you vote for a pro choice candidate?

Nope. My Catholic faith trumps all politics unlike the Catholics who practice cafeteria style Catholicism. If every candidate running for president was pro-choice, I'd stay home. I've got a higher power to answer to.

So it's OK for you to be a single issue voter, but not for blacks. OK.

Race is a campaign issue, now?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[eflynn 0]

It's funny to watch people repeat something that isn't true over and over and over until it seems to stick.

[jcd11235 0]

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That's only because his beliefs are more important than anyone else's.

When did I claim this?

When you claimed that stance on abortion was a worthy litmus test, but race was not.

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I simply stated my beliefs which I have just as much right to as you do.

I don't dispute that you have that right.

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Do your beliefs trump mine?

I never claimed they did. It was you who claimed yours were more reasonable than others'. Personally, I think neither being black (or white) nor being anti-choice is sufficient justification to earn a vote, but I believe everyone can decide for themselves who to vote for.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[popsjumper 2]

It's funny how people insist on reading "between the lines" and ignore what was written. One funny part is that what they read "between the lines" is what they want to hear instead of what was really written.

A great "confuse the topic with misdirection" technique.
You bozos crack me up.


Chris,
FWIW. I think I understand what you are asking. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Can I put it this way?

I believe that the answer is basically twofold:
1. Feelings of disenfranchisment.
You know, Civil Rights issues were, at first, based on gaining equal footing for all people. Those that felt they didn't have access to those basic civil rights may have felt that the world didn't care about them and they were being left out of the "process". That feeling, rightly or wrongly, is a carryover from those days when the reality was much more true than today. When you think a candidate is going to serve your personal agenda, it's easy to make a choice.

Side note:
Had the Civil Rights movement focused on the simple proposition of, "I am and American citizen and I demand the same rights as all other citizens", then I believe things would have worked out much differently than what we have today. That was an easy fix.

However, things got severely off-track when the idea of, "colored folks have been getting screwed over ever since the days of slavery" got mixed in with the basic issues. That's not possible to fix and it continues to be problematic for many.

2. Lack of desire to research and discover.
Basing one's voting choice on any one particular happenstance relieves one of the responsibility, and work, of finding out what the candidate is really all about. Basing ones vote on race is no different than basing one's vote on party affiliation. You don't have to think.


Bottom line...if you leave the emotions out of it and take the time to learn what the candidates are all about, then side issues like race and party affiliation (should) fall by the wayside.

Problem is, this is NOT what's going on...and it never has and, IMHO, never will.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[wmw999 2,583]

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So, (some)blacks are moved to vote for a black president simply because of the color of his skin and with no regard to the issues that are so important to our country

There are probably whites who are doing the same thing.

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I personally do not care about the race or gender of our president provided I agree with how he/she stand on the most important issues facing the country.

If you thought racism was one of the most important issues facing the country, would you think that the candidate's race, and therefore possible ability to understand the impact of racism, was important?

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Now, one could make the point that I am a white male and every POTUS has been a white male, so I would not feel disenfranchised. This would be a lame point at best.

Dunno. Try being someone who has a significantly smaller number of high-profile role models in some arenas before you say that. I'm a woman; there are things that until not too many years ago, women just didn't really do. Whether or not I aspired to them only makes that relevant to me. Girls who wanted to make a career in the Army know that there is a limit to how far they could probably go until a few years ago. Someone has to be first, and sometimes it sucks to be that first. Look at the girls and minorities who were the first at the various military academies. Yes, I'll submit they had to be tougher than the vast majority of the white guys who were there at the time.

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I can understand the desire to finally break through the status quo or that 'glass ceiling' and finally have a president of a different race or gender, but it would not be my deciding factor.

It doesn't have to be. It wouldn't be mine, either. Of course, I think that abortion is a silly factor to override all others as well.

Their issue is important to them. It's solemn, and a significant factor in their lives. Maybe they live somewhere where they still get "the eye" when they walk into a store, or where people move closer to the cash register or put their hands on their wallets as soon as they see. Dunno. But that's their problem, and they vote their problems, just as nearly everyone votes on the problems they think are most important to the country. That's why we all get to vote.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[popsjumper 2]

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Doesn't anyone realize that by labeling them 'African-American' it contributes to the seperation of races? We should all be labeled as Americans, unless we are actually a citizen of a different country.

Agreed. BUT, the problem is that those who are labeled 'XYZ' quite the most often put the label on themselves by choice.

That makes me think that the "separate but equal" doctrine (1896 Plessy vs Ferguson decision by the U.S. Supreme Court) is their main focus. With respect to "African-Americans", I don't believe that that is what Martin Luther King had in mind. Indeed, he fought to change that.

One (of many) reference:
Remarks on the Acceptance of the Forty-Second Springarn Medal at the Forty-Eighth Annual NAACP Convention
(28 June, 1957, Detroit Michigan)

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[kallend 2,146]

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I'd have a hard time voting for anyone who made rape victims pay for their own rape kits and forced them to bear the children of the rapist.

I have a hard time believing someone that throws out wild allegations without any proof.

Me too, check out Snopes on the lies posted about Obama.

However, Palin's position on forensic kits and no abortions for rapeand incest victims is perfectly well documented.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.