Help me try to understand this re: Blacks voting for Obama

[Muenkel 0]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/161214

What If Obama Loses?
African-Americans thought he had no chance—then they started to believe. Now they fear defeat.

Allison Samuels
NEWSWEEK
From the magazine issue dated Oct 6, 2008
If you had tuned in to "The Michael Baisden Show" early last year, you would probably have heard the host talking mostly about urgent issues such as "how to please your man in the bedroom" or "pimps in the pulpit." That's now changed. The new star of Baisden's four-hour syndicated radio program is Barack Obama. "It was a no-brainer," says Baisden, 45, whose freewheeling show reaches millions, primarily African-American listeners in urban markets. "The conversation had to change to 'How do we change our futures now that we have someone who might actually care about us in the race?' What amazed me was that the number of listeners for my show kept increasing even as the conversation became more serious."

In the African-American community, the thinking on Obama's candidacy has gone something like this: In the beginning, there was disbelief that a black man could become president. Then, when Obama became the Democratic nominee and soared in the polls, listeners were concerned for his safety. Now that the race with John McCain is as tight as Sarah Palin's smile, Baisden's audience has started to worry about Election Day itself. There is still a fair amount of optimism in the black community, but it's being tempered by two words: what if. What if Obama loses? How should people respond? What should they feel? It's a common election-season concern, but it's all the more acute in the African-American community, where more people are paying attention to the campaign—and planning to vote—than ever. Managing expectations and reactions has become Topic A in many black homes and on blogs such as Bossip, Stereohyped and Angry Black Male. "People that I know that have never cared about politics are registering to vote this time: gang members, ex-cons, you name it," says rapper Snoop Dogg. "I hate to see a lot of that hope go down the drain, and if he loses, it will."

Racism, naturally, plays a part in the conversation. "I've never forgotten that he is a smart, articulate black man with a smart, articulate black wife," says Linda Wright, 34, a nurse's assistant from Houston. "You think white people were just going to turn over the keys to the most important job in the land without a fight?" The overriding feeling is apprehension, a vague fear of losing something people thought was theirs to keep. "My kids love Obama and they think it's so obvious he should be the president," says actor D. L. Hughley. "I was just honest in saying life isn't always fair and certainly isn't always fair for African-Americans. But Obama has overcome so many obstacles, it's easy to forget reality."

There's not a lot of anger—yet—but you can start to sense the potential for it. "I'm going to be mad, real mad, if he doesn't win," says Daetwon Fisher, 21, a construction worker from Long Beach, Calif. "Because for him to come this far and lose will be just shady and a slap in black people's faces. I know there is already talk about protests and stuff if he loses, and I'm down for that." Baisden hears a lot of that incipient resentment on his show, but he tries to soothe people rather than incite them. "Look, if he loses we have no one to blame but ourselves because that meant we all didn't go out and vote in the numbers we should have," says Baisden. "Yes, people will be upset, but it will be in a productive way. There will be a rational reaction if things are fair."

There's that word again—if. As much as blacks are sorting through what they'll feel if Obama loses, they are also trying to figure out how to stop that from happening. Fisher's comment about something vaguely "shady" echoes a common concern that the election will somehow be stolen rather than won. "I know a lot of things can stop Obama from winning, and it's not just lack of votes," says Marilyn Higgins, 36, a mail carrier from Detroit. One caller to Baisden's show wanted to know how he could vote if he didn't have a permanent address. Another asked if someone could legally be turned away from the polls for wearing saggy pants or cornrows in your hair. Nothing is being taken for granted. Baisden is asking black lawyers to volunteer to patrol polling stations on Nov. 4. Several black talk-show hosts have started advising listeners with police records to double-check state laws to see if they are eligible to vote.

Jacon Richmond is one of those men. Richmond, 32, spent two years in prison for possession of marijuana and has never voted before. "I thought, 'What's the point?' But my mom started talking about Obama last year and getting so excited about him, I started paying attention." Now Richmond reads the paper and is talking to his buddies about the importance of the election. But since this is his first time voting, he has no idea what it feels like to lose, and he's not sure what he's going to feel. "I know it's crazy to go from not thinking a black man counts to thinking one should win the president of the United States for sure, but I'm not sure how I'll handle that if it doesn't happen."

******************************************

I know this is the opinion of one columnist with the approval of an editor of a major publication.

So, blacks are moved to vote for a black president simply because of the color of his skin and with no regard to the issues that are so important to our country.

I personally do not care about the race or gender of our president provided I agree with how he/she stand on the most important issues facing the country.

Now, one could make the point that I am a white male and every POTUS has been a white male, so I would not feel disenfranchised. This would be a lame point at best. The color of someone's skin or their gender does not make a candidate the best candidate.

I can understand the desire to finally break through the status quo or that 'glass ceiling' and finally have a president of a different race or gender, but it would not be my deciding factor. First and foremost is my confidence that the candidate has the best policies to lead this country at this most volatile time.

And BTW, how many African-Americans are actually from Africa (I'm not talking about 6 generations ago)? Doesn't anyone realize that by labeling them 'African-American' it contributes to the seperation of races? We should all be labeled as Americans, unless we are actually a citizen of a different country.

_________________________________________
Chris

[kallend 2,112]

What about whites who won't vote for a black man (or woman)?

Or don't you think they exist?

A whole lot of people who cheered when Governor Wallace shouted "Segregation forever" are still around, you know.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Muenkel 0]

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What about whites who won't vote for a black man (or woman)?

Or don't you think they exist?

A whole lot of people who cheered when Governor Wallace shouted "Segregation forever" are still around, you know.

Ofcourse they exist.

Compare the percentage of blacks voting for Obama to the percentage in the groups you mentioned and maybe you'll get your answer.

_________________________________________
Chris

[n23x 0]

How are you coming up with your percentages? Be specific.

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[SpeedRacer 1]

Quote

Quote

What about whites who won't vote for a black man (or woman)?

Or don't you think they exist?

A whole lot of people who cheered when Governor Wallace shouted "Segregation forever" are still around, you know.

Ofcourse they exist.

Compare the percentage of blacks voting for Obama to the percentage in the groups you mentioned and maybe you'll get your answer.

How would we get those figures??

Speed Racer
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[jcd11235 0]

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So, blacks are moved to vote for a black president simply because of the color of his skin and with no regard to the issues that are so important to our country.

Not from what I've seen. For example, one of my roommates, who is black, supported Senator Clinton over Senator Obama, as did I. It certainly wasn't uncommon for such to be the case. In fact, every person I know who has supported Senator Obama since he first announced his candidacy for President have been white males.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Muenkel 0]

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How are you coming up with your percentages? Be specific.

Widely reported and not just on Fox News. I already posted one article from Newsweek. Do a little research to find your answer, or is your question a slippery way of trying to debunk my original post?

_________________________________________
Chris

[kallend 2,112]

Quote

Quote

What about whites who won't vote for a black man (or woman)?

Or don't you think they exist?

A whole lot of people who cheered when Governor Wallace shouted "Segregation forever" are still around, you know.

Ofcourse they exist.

Compare the percentage of blacks voting for Obama to the percentage in the groups you mentioned and maybe you'll get your answer.

What % of the US population is black?

According to research on people's attitudes, racism will amount to a net handicap for Obama of around 6%

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

Compare the percentage of blacks voting for Obama to the percentage in the groups you mentioned and maybe you'll get your answer.

What kind of comparison would that be? Are you claiming that every single black who supports Obama does so because Obama is phenotypically black?

Have you considered the possibility that they might actually recognize his political platform to be superior to Senator McCain's, and thus support Obama based on the issues?

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Muenkel 0]

Quote

What about whites who won't vote for a black man (or woman)?

Or don't you think they exist?

A whole lot of people who cheered when Governor Wallace shouted "Segregation forever" are still around, you know.

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Ofcourse they exist.

Compare the percentage of blacks voting for Obama to the percentage in the groups you mentioned and maybe you'll get your answer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


How would we get those figures??

See my reply to n23x.

_________________________________________
Chris

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

Quote

How are you coming up with your percentages? Be specific.

Widely reported and not just on Fox News. I already posted one article from Newsweek. Do a little research to find your answer, or is your question a slippery way of trying to debunk my original post?

I didn't notice any percentages in the article you posted. Perhaps you should do a little research to find data supporting your assertion.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Muenkel 0]

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What % of the US population is black?

It's the percentage of the black population, not the US population.

Several of you seem to think I'm on the attack here. I'm not. I'm simply asking a question that has to do with demographics. It's not an anti-Obama thread. Thus my question, 'Help me to understand'.

_________________________________________
Chris

[birdlike 0]

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What about whites who won't vote for a black man (or woman)?

Or don't you think they exist?

A whole lot of people who cheered when Governor Wallace shouted "Segregation forever" are still around, you know.

I'm a white who would indeed have trouble voting for a black person who has made clear that serving black people's interests is a priority over serving people's interests (of all races).

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[kallend 2,112]

Quote

Quote

How are you coming up with your percentages? Be specific.

Widely reported and not just on Fox News. I already posted one article from Newsweek. Do a little research to find your answer, or is your question a slippery way of trying to debunk my original post?

www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/09/22/2008-09-22_poll_barack_obama_could_lose_six_percent.html

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[n23x 0]

Provide the data you're using, that way we all have common ground to work with.

If you don't have supporting data, then I don't really need to debunk your theory, do I?

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[kallend 2,112]

Quote

Quote

What about whites who won't vote for a black man (or woman)?

Or don't you think they exist?

A whole lot of people who cheered when Governor Wallace shouted "Segregation forever" are still around, you know.

I'm a white who would indeed have trouble voting for a black person who has made clear that serving black people's interests is a priority over serving people's interests (of all races).

Good job we don't have a candidate like that running.


I'd have a hard time voting for anyone whose party in 2000 considered him a worse choice for president than G.W. Bush.

I'd have a hard time voting for anyone who made rape victims pay for their own rape kits and forced them to bear the children of the rapist.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Muenkel 0]

Quote

Compare the percentage of blacks voting for Obama to the percentage in the groups you mentioned and maybe you'll get your answer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What kind of comparison would that be? Are you claiming that every single black who supports Obama does so because Obama is phenotypically black?

Have you considered the possibility that they might actually recognize his political platform to be superior to Senator McCain's, and thus support Obama based on the issues?

Answers to your questions:

1. No
2. Yes

Did you even read what I wrote in my original post in this thread? Did you happen to notice what I wrote in my very first sentence?

I am trying to find out if blacks are overwhelmingly supporting Obama simpy because he is black and if so, why?

I read an article from a major publication. It raised some questions in my mind, so I posted it here to get answers. Once again, it is not my intention to make this an Obama bashing thread.

_________________________________________
Chris

[nerdgirl 0]

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Quote

How are you coming up with your percentages? Be specific.

Widely reported and not just on Fox News. I already posted one article from Newsweek. Do a little research to find your answer, or is your question a slippery way of trying to debunk my original post?

Chris -

Would you present some more data on that. I've asked that question before.

There were a few districts (e.g., some districts in the Georgia Democratic primary) that got a lot of attention. The majority of districts and states in which there were not pronounced disparities didn't receive any attention, i.e., it wasn't seen as newsworthy ... a la "white Republicans vote overwhelmingly for white candidates" or "peace, again, at US-Canada border." It's not newsworthy.

It's been noted previously that in January it was found

"In a national survey by CNN/Opinion Research Corp., 59 percent of black Democrats backed Obama, an Illinois Democrat, for their party's presidential nomination, with 31 percent supporting Clinton, the senator from New York."

59% or just over half.

One might conclude that when an instance when 70-80% of some definable electrorate goes to Sen Obama occurs you hear about it. When it doesn't, you don't, e.g,

"The 28 point lead for Obama is a major reversal from October, when Clinton held a 24 point lead among black Democrats."

So at one point more black Democrats supported Sen Clinton -- by 24 percentage points. As Sen Obama's popularity has risen among Democrats, so has his support among black Democrats.

Another example of what one doesn't hear about on the blog-o-sphere punditry and another counter-example: in the Democratic Senate candidate run-off in Georgia, Jim Martin (a white man) beat Vernon Jones (a black man). This was the same Democratic electorate that when they voted 66% for Sen Obama versus 31% for Sen Clinton was presented as an example of 'black voters voting for blacks." If the latter assertion was true, one would have expected Jones (the black Democratic candidate) to win the primary run-off, but he didn't.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[SpeedRacer 1]

It's hard to answer this question.

One thing I think: The type of white person who wouldn't vote for Obama just because he's black, is probably the same type of white person who wouldn't vote for him because he's a smarty-pants liberal (regardless of his color).

Speed Racer
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[jcd11235 0]

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I'm a white who would indeed have trouble voting for a black person who has made clear that serving black people's interests is a priority over serving people's interests (of all races).

Irrelevant, since Obama has not made such claims in his campaign.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[birdlike 0]

Quote

Quote

I'm a white who would indeed have trouble voting for a black person who has made clear that serving black people's interests is a priority over serving people's interests (of all races).

Good job we don't have a candidate like that running.


I'd have a hard time voting for anyone whose party in 2000 considered him a worse choice for president than G.W. Bush.

I'd have a hard time voting for anyone who made rape victims pay for their own rape kits and forced them to bear the children of the rapist.

Did you know that the cost of the kits used to collect platelets via plateletpheresis is passed on to the cancer patients who receive the blood products?

What unmitigated gall!! Thinking that someone needs to actually pay for things!

(P.S. I'm not familiar with and haven't read up on this Palin allegation. And if you don't like people being forced to bear children of rapists, maybe our society would do better to execute sex criminals, and empower women to be armed and prepared to take them out when they strike. And I don't mean for dinner and a movie.)

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[Muenkel 0]

Quote

How are you coming up with your percentages? Be specific.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Widely reported and not just on Fox News. I already posted one article from Newsweek. Do a little research to find your answer, or is your question a slippery way of trying to debunk my original post?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.nydailynews.com/...ose_six_percent.html

That statistic, if accurate, would be very unfortunate. It doesn't really answer my question, though it is somewhat the flipside of it.

_________________________________________
Chris

[birdlike 0]

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I'm a white who would indeed have trouble voting for a black person who has made clear that serving black people's interests is a priority over serving people's interests (of all races).

Irrelevant, since Obama has not made such claims in his campaign.

Like that's something that, if true, he'd be announcing on the national stage during the presidential campaign.

Once again, just like his claims of being "pro-second-amendment," you have to look at what he's done and said in his past, not what he's saying now to be politically expedient.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

Quote

Compare the percentage of blacks voting for Obama to the percentage in the groups you mentioned and maybe you'll get your answer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What kind of comparison would that be? Are you claiming that every single black who supports Obama does so because Obama is phenotypically black?

Have you considered the possibility that they might actually recognize his political platform to be superior to Senator McCain's, and thus support Obama based on the issues?

Answers to your questions:

1. No
2. Yes

>>What kind of comparison would that be?

>1. No

That wasn't a yes or no question.

>>Are you claiming that every single black who supports Obama does so because Obama is phenotypically black?

>2. Yes

So, why do you believe that?

Also, why did you ignore my third question?

Quote

Did you even read what I wrote in my original post in this thread?

Yes

Did you happen to notice what I wrote in my very first sentence?

[Muenkel 0]

An intelligent answer to my question. I thank you for that. It does open another can of worms though. In most of the examples used, the race was between a black man and a white woman. So now we're dealing with racism and sexism.

We're about to make history in this country. We will either have the first black POTUS or the first female VPOTUS. These are just demographics though. In a perfect election, they would not matter. The party elected would be so because of their platforms, not demographics.

_________________________________________
Chris