Help me try to understand this re: Blacks voting for Obama

[birdlike 0]

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You just said that you think that you think every single black who supports Obama does so because he is phenotypically black.

I just think he's phenotypically fuckin' weird-lookin'!

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[jcd11235 0]

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Like that's something that, if true, he'd be announcing on the national stage during the presidential campaign.

Once again, just like his claims of being "pro-second-amendment," you have to look at what he's done and said in his past, not what he's saying now to be politically expedient.

I notice your lack of relevant examples and data.

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[birdlike 0]

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Like that's something that, if true, he'd be announcing on the national stage during the presidential campaign.

Once again, just like his claims of being "pro-second-amendment," you have to look at what he's done and said in his past, not what he's saying now to be politically expedient.

I notice your lack of relevant examples and data.

That's nice.

I'm not here to convince anyone. And I'm not interested enough to go digging up links and lines for you to read. You have your mind made up, and I have my mind made up, based on our respective experiences and the things we've seen, heard, and read. I'm OK with that.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[n23x 0]

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I just think he's phenotypically fuckin' weird-lookin'!

You and this woman. Know her?

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[Andy9o8 2]

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You just said that you think that you think every single black who supports Obama does so because he is phenotypically black.

I just think he's phenotypically fuckin' weird-lookin'!

Compared to whom?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DjNjkhRgVk

[jcd11235 0]

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I notice your lack of relevant examples and data.

That's nice.

I'm not here to convince anyone. And I'm not interested enough to go digging up links and lines for you to read. You have your mind made up, and I have my mind made up, based on our respective experiences and the things we've seen, heard, and read. I'm OK with that.

In other words, you are basing your opinion on prejudices, without first considering whether they have any basis in reality.

BTW, when are you going to pay your debt? Where's the money you owe me? Don't you believe in personal responsibility?

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[christelsabine 1]

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You just said that you think that you think every single black who supports Obama does so because he is phenotypically black.

I just think he's phenotypically fuckin' weird-lookin'!

You still have your feminine curls, hanging down to your shoulders?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[birdlike 0]

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I just think he's phenotypically fuckin' weird-lookin'!

You and this woman. Know her?

.jim

Just what are you trying to establish, here? Are you trying to show to us that you're an elitist who holds himself above others who don't appear as "intelligent" or "educated" as he is; who laments the freedom that others have to vote, even out of ignorance? Because that's what it sounds like. Obviously, the subtext of what you're saying is, "Man, isn't it shitty that we have to let dumb country people vote?"

Besides, I didn't say anything about his name being Hussein; I didn't call him a muslim; I didn't even say anything about his skin color. I simply said he's weird-lookin'. Yet you likened that to all the bigoted stuff that the dumb hick woman was saying. Howzat?

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

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You just said that you think that you think every single black who supports Obama does so because he is phenotypically black.

I just think he's phenotypically fuckin' weird-lookin'!

Compared to whom?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DjNjkhRgVk

Holy shit, it's going viral!!


In answer to your question, fuck yeah he's weird-lookin' compared to me!!

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

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You just said that you think that you think every single black who supports Obama does so because he is phenotypically black.

I just think he's phenotypically fuckin' weird-lookin'!

You still have your feminine curls, hanging down to your shoulders?

Yes ma'am.
After all, the video was made just yesterday, and I haven't gone and had my head shaved since then.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

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I notice your lack of relevant examples and data.

That's nice.

I'm not here to convince anyone. And I'm not interested enough to go digging up links and lines for you to read. You have your mind made up, and I have my mind made up, based on our respective experiences and the things we've seen, heard, and read. I'm OK with that.

In other words, you are basing your opinion on prejudices, without first considering whether they have any basis in reality.

Actually, no. It's just that I have heard and read of the statements that establish what I believe I know of him, even though I don't have them on hand to cite for you.

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BTW, when are you going to pay your debt? Where's the money you owe me? Don't you believe in personal responsibility?

You crack me up!

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[Muenkel 0]

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Compare the percentage of blacks voting for Obama to the percentage in the groups you mentioned and maybe you'll get your answer.

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What kind of comparison would that be? Are you claiming that every single black who supports Obama does so because Obama is phenotypically black?

Have you considered the possibility that they might actually recognize his political platform to be superior to Senator McCain's, and thus support Obama based on the issues?

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Answers to your questions:

1. No
2. Yes

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>>What kind of comparison would that be?

>1. No

That wasn't a yes or no question.

>>Are you claiming that every single black who supports Obama does so because Obama is phenotypically black?

>2. Yes

So, why do you believe that?

Also, why did you ignore my third question?

Let's start over here as there was miscommunication.

Question 1: The statement of mine you quoted was an answer to a reply from kallend, which I answered already. He brought up items that had nothing to do with my discussion.

Question 2: No, I would never assume that every black that is voting for Obama is doing so because he is 'phenotypically' black.

Question 3: Yes I do know that some black people support Obama because they fundamentally disagree with McCain's platforms.
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Did you even read what I wrote in my original post in this thread?

Yes

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Did you happen to notice what I wrote in my very first sentence?

I read all of the sentences in your post.

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I am trying to find out if blacks are overwhelmingly supporting Obama simpy because he is black and if so, why?

You just said that that you think that you think every single black who supports Obama does so because he is phenotypically black.

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I read an article from a major publication. It raised some questions in my mind, so I posted it here to get answers. Once again, it is not my intention to make this an Obama bashing thread.

[jcd11235 says] Apparently you're trying to bash blacks in general.

You do not know me, so you should not assume I am a racist. I have never bashed blacks or any other race and never plan to. As I stated up above, there was a miscommunication in my above reply. In the future please try to not jump to such an extreme conclusion without asking questions in a respectful manner.

_________________________________________
Chris

[jcd11235 0]

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It's just that I have heard and read of the statements that establish what I believe I know of him, even though I don't have them on hand to cite for you.

I'm sure we've all heard and read about Obama being Muslim, or his refusal to wear a US flag lapel pin, or any number of other claims. That doesn't mean they have any basis in fact.

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BTW, when are you going to pay your debt? Where's the money you owe me? Don't you believe in personal responsibility?

You crack me up!

It's rather telling about your personal beliefs on personal responsibility when you refuse to pay your own debt. At least you're consistent with your support of the Republican candidate.

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[christelsabine 1]

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You still have your feminine curls, hanging down to your shoulders?

Yes ma'am.
After all, the video was made just yesterday, and I haven't gone and had my head shaved since then.

I did not watch the video before - did just now. (Great shot. Excellent shot. - Still talking to yourself?)

Holy Moses, where did your wonderful blonde curls go to?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Muenkel 0]

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One thing I think: The type of white person who wouldn't vote for Obama just because he's black, is probably the same type of white person who wouldn't vote for him because he's a smarty-pants liberal (regardless of his color).

I disagree.

Your first example indicates a person with racist motives. Your second example indicates a person who disagrees with ideology.

_________________________________________
Chris

[jcd11235 0]

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Let's start over here as there was miscommunication.

Fair enough.

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Question 1: The statement of mine you quoted was an answer to a reply from kallend, which I answered already. He brought up items that had nothing to do with my discussion.

The comparison you proposed had nothing to do with the topic at hand. If McCain was black and Obama was white, we would expect to see Obama's support increase. Make no mistake, race is a disadvantage for Obama.

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Question 2: No, I would never assume that every black that is voting for Obama is doing so because he is 'phenotypically' black.

But, that is what the comparison you suggested would require as an underlying assumption if the comparison was to be at all meaningful.

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Question 3: Yes I do know that some black people support Obama because they fundamentally disagree with McCain's platforms.

I would say the vast majority of Obama's supporters, regardless of race, fall into that category. Senator Clinton did very well among blacks during the primaries, indicating that race was not the primary consideration.

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You do not know me, so you should not assume I am a racist.

I only had your post to go by. If it is inconsistent with what you meant to say, I have no way of knowing. You said there was a miscommunication, and I'm quite willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

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[birdlike 0]

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It's just that I have heard and read of the statements that establish what I believe I know of him, even though I don't have them on hand to cite for you.

I'm sure we've all heard and read about Obama being Muslim, or his refusal to wear a US flag lapel pin, or any number of other claims. That doesn't mean they have any basis in fact.

So now you're establishing the things you think I have come to believe about Obama, on my behalf? And then knocking them down as strawmen, and concluding that I must not have anything apart from that to use as a basis for not liking Obama?

And you were a moment ago challenging me for not having a valid basis for what I post.
Heh. That's good.

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It's rather telling about your personal beliefs on personal responsibility when you refuse to pay your own debt. At least you're consistent with your support of the Republican candidate.

Actually, no, I don't believe it's "telling" about me at all. And who said I was "consistent with [my] support of the Republican candidate? I've stated (but perhaps it was not here, I can't recall which board I stated it on) that I may very well vote for Bob Barr, especially since my county typically goes to the Democratic candidate for president regardless of what I do.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

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You still have your feminine curls, hanging down to your shoulders?

Yes ma'am.
After all, the video was made just yesterday, and I haven't gone and had my head shaved since then.

I did not watch the video before - did just now. (Great shot. Excellent shot. - Still talking to yourself?)

Holy Moses, where did your wonderful blonde curls go to?



You are making less and less sense, the more of your posts I read -- and I don't think the variable is me. Is it possible for a person to make negative sense? I guess we'll soon see.

When the hell was I ever blond?

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[Andy9o8 2]

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It's hard to answer this question.

One thing I think: The type of white person who wouldn't vote for Obama just because he's black, is probably the same type of white person who wouldn't vote for him because he's a smarty-pants liberal (regardless of his color).

Nope - my Dad's the perfect example. Lifelong Democrat, in his 70's, tough working-class childhood, raised and lived mostly in the Northeast; veteran USMC noncom, college degree on the GI bill; fiscal and social moderate with an age-appropriate conservative tinge, career in business management; strong on national defense. Thinks Democrats have the most compassion for ordinary people and try to improve society, when they're not obsessed with being sissified victims; and Republicans mainly only give a shit about taxes and enriching themselves, although they are more sensible on national defense. Welfare stinks; unions are a necessary evil. Thinks the Afghanistan war is justified and should have been fought to win from the start, and the Iraq war is an inexcusable waste of American blood.

Dad votes mostly for Democrats, but he does not suffer fools or pussies gladly. He couldn't bring himself to vote for McGovern in '72, and he voted against Carter in '80 to punish him for his whining incompetence. If he were younger, he might be a Libertarian. Thinks Clinton was, on the whole, a pretty good President, albeit morally a pig. Thinks G.W. Bush is an idiot and an embarrassment.

But Dad's also a product of his times. He's not a virulent racist, but, especially under stress, there is this latent undercurrent of racism that rarely shows itself, but that I'm aware of because, well, he's my Dad. He has no problem with blacks generally; but he'd have been appalled had one of his kids married one, you know?

Dad's going to vote for McCain. Although he won't admit it, there's simply no way in hell he can ever bring himself to vote for a black person as President. Why? He just doesn't trust "them". Oh, he has all the typical talking points: Obama and his wife care more about "their people" than the American people, etc., etc. But there's no doubt in my mind that, all other things being equal, if Barack Obama was a white man with a "regular" name, even if he was a smarty-pants liberal (in other words, if he was a Bill Clinton clone), he'd vote for him, and not McCain. That's the OTHER kind of white person who won't vote for Obama because he's black.

Oh, well - there's still Mom to work on.

[kallend 2,146]

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It's hard to answer this question.

One thing I think: The type of white person who wouldn't vote for Obama just because he's black, is probably the same type of white person who wouldn't vote for him because he's a smarty-pants liberal (regardless of his color).

Nope - my Dad's the perfect example. Lifelong Democrat, in his 70's, tough working-class childhood, raised and lived mostly in the Northeast; veteran USMC noncom, college degree on the GI bill; fiscal and social moderate with an age-appropriate conservative tinge, career in business management; strong on national defense. Thinks Democrats have the most compassion for ordinary people and try to improve society, when they're not obsessed with being sissified victims; and Republicans mainly only give a shit about taxes and enriching themselves, although they are more sensible on national defense. Welfare stinks; unions are a necessary evil. Thinks the Afghanistan war is justified and should have been fought to win from the start, and the Iraq war is an inexcusable waste of American blood.

Dad votes mostly for Democrats, but he does not suffer fools or pussies gladly. He couldn't bring himself to vote for McGovern in '72, and he voted against Carter in '80 to punish him for his whining incompetence. If he were younger, he might be a Libertarian. Thinks Clinton was, on the whole, a pretty good President, albeit morally a pig. Thinks G.W. Bush is an idiot and an embarrassment.

But Dad's also a product of his times. He's not a virulent racist, but, especially under stress, there is this latent undercurrent of racism that rarely shows itself, but that I'm aware of because, well, he's my Dad. He has no problem with blacks generally; but he'd have been appalled had one of his kids married one, you know?

Dad's going to vote for McCain. Although he won't admit it, there's simply no way in hell he can ever bring himself to vote for a black person as President. There's no doubt in my mind that, all other things being equal, if Barack Obama was a white man with a "regular" name, even if he was a smarty-pants liberal (in other words, if he was a Bill Clinton clone), he'd vote for him, and not McCain. That's the OTHER kind of white person who won't vote for Obama because he's black.

Oh, well - there's still Mom to work on.

I have 2 colleagues like that. Both in their 60s, lifelong Dems, but state they won't vote for Obama because he's black.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jcd11235 0]

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It's just that I have heard and read of the statements that establish what I believe I know of him, even though I don't have them on hand to cite for you.

I'm sure we've all heard and read about Obama being Muslim, or his refusal to wear a US flag lapel pin, or any number of other claims. That doesn't mean they have any basis in fact.

So now you're establishing the things you think I have come to believe about Obama, on my behalf?

Not at all. I never said nor implied that you thought Obama was Muslim or that you believe that he refused to wear the flag lapel pin. I only offered them as examples of things most everyone has read or heard about Senator Obama. Without checking to make sure things (regardless of what they might be) you've "read or heard" are factual, then you have no way of knowing that your personal beliefs about Senator Obama are based in fact, or are the result of personal prejudices.

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And you were a moment ago challenging me for not having a valid basis for what I post.
Heh. That's good.

I still am, despite your misinterpretation of my last past. You're unwillingness and/or inability to cite credible sources to support your assertions justifies the challenge.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[n23x 0]

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Are you trying to show to us that you're an elitist who holds himself above others who don't appear as "intelligent" or "educated" as he is; who laments the freedom that others have to vote, even out of ignorance?

And then:

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Yet you likened that to all the bigoted stuff that the dumb hick woman was saying. Howzat?

1.) Hilarious.

2.) Her opinion was influenced by things she heard but cannot cite as legitimate references, just as you claimed a couple of posts ago. Sounds pretty similar in my mind to, "he'll take care of black people over all people", or whatever you were raving about.

And to confirm, you are or are not the guy in that sweet youtube video?

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[warpedskydiver 0]

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It's hard to answer this question.

One thing I think: The type of white person who wouldn't vote for Obama just because he's black, is probably the same type of white person who wouldn't vote for him because he's a smarty-pants liberal (regardless of his color).

Nope - my Dad's the perfect example. Lifelong Democrat, in his 70's, tough working-class childhood, raised and lived mostly in the Northeast; veteran USMC noncom, college degree on the GI bill; fiscal and social moderate with an age-appropriate conservative tinge, career in business management; strong on national defense. Thinks Democrats have the most compassion for ordinary people and try to improve society, when they're not obsessed with being sissified victims; and Republicans mainly only give a shit about taxes and enriching themselves, although they are more sensible on national defense. Welfare stinks; unions are a necessary evil. Thinks the Afghanistan war is justified and should have been fought to win from the start, and the Iraq war is an inexcusable waste of American blood.

Dad votes mostly for Democrats, but he does not suffer fools or pussies gladly. He couldn't bring himself to vote for McGovern in '72, and he voted against Carter in '80 to punish him for his whining incompetence. If he were younger, he might be a Libertarian. Thinks Clinton was, on the whole, a pretty good President, albeit morally a pig. Thinks G.W. Bush is an idiot and an embarrassment.

But Dad's also a product of his times. He's not a virulent racist, but, especially under stress, there is this latent undercurrent of racism that rarely shows itself, but that I'm aware of because, well, he's my Dad. He has no problem with blacks generally; but he'd have been appalled had one of his kids married one, you know?

Dad's going to vote for McCain. Although he won't admit it, there's simply no way in hell he can ever bring himself to vote for a black person as President. There's no doubt in my mind that, all other things being equal, if Barack Obama was a white man with a "regular" name, even if he was a smarty-pants liberal (in other words, if he was a Bill Clinton clone), he'd vote for him, and not McCain. That's the OTHER kind of white person who won't vote for Obama because he's black.

Oh, well - there's still Mom to work on.

I have 2 colleagues like that. Both in their 60s, lifelong Dems, but state they won't vote for Obama because he's black.

At least you are willing to vote for him because he is black.

[jcd11235 0]

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At least you are willing to vote for him because he is black.

It's funny how many people think that Obama's supporters base their support on race. Projection, I suppose.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[warpedskydiver 0]

Why not just call me a racist like a grown man would, instead you make thinly veiled remarks.

When you see racism in others and make such claims, maybe you are the one that actually is practicing prejudice, and racism.

If I say something regarding race, I state my opinion, but if I were to make thinly veiled statements, and try to hide my real meaning, maybe then I would be just like you and others.