Where are the highest foreclosure rates and what kind of loans are they?

[FreeflyChile 0]

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It isn't grads, it's students who run up debt before they make a penny.

You actually have a very valid point (altho' I'm not sure it correlates well with the topic of home loans) - increasing college student debt.

A typical college student has ~$2700 in credit card debt.

The debt burden on college grads from student loans is increasing significantly. The National Center for Education Statistics (NCES), part of the Dept of Ed, found that ~50% of recent college graduate have student loans, with an average student loan debt of $21,000 (2007). That's a doubling of average loan debt in less than 8 years. Some are much higher & obviously, some are much lower. The highest average loan burden is Washington, D.C., which has an average student debt burden of $27,757.

In a survey of loan recipients from New Hampshire, 82% indicated that without student loans, attending college would not have been possible.

VR/Marg

I *wish* I had that kind of debt......

[georgerussia 0]

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Yep. And, as Marg pointed out previously, most of the problem came from the higher income mortgage holders. So?

My understanding is that "low income" in his definition meant their income was too low to repay their mortgage after the teaser rate expires. Lying about your income to get a bigger mortgage was a common practice in Bay Area, and I bet it was even more popular in areas where the general income is lower, like Modesto, Stockton and Tracy.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[kallend 2,150]

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Yep. And, as Marg pointed out previously, most of the problem came from the higher income mortgage holders. So?

My understanding is that "low income" in his definition meant their income was too low to repay their mortgage after the teaser rate expires. Lying about your income to get a bigger mortgage was a common practice in Bay Area, and I bet it was even more popular in areas where the general income is lower, like Modesto, Stockton and Tracy.

Instead of your bet, why not supply some data?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[georgerussia 0]

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Instead of your bet, why not supply some data?

Because I guess is that providing the data you would find reliable would quickly turn into a full-time job. So for now I'll just voice my personal opinion.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[kallend 2,150]

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Instead of your bet, why not supply some data?

Because I guess is that providing the data you would find reliable would quickly turn into a full-time job. So for now I'll just voice my personal opinion.

ANY data would be better than your guess.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jcd11235 0]

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Instead of your bet, why not supply some data?

Because I guess is that providing the data you would find reliable would quickly turn into a full-time job. So for now I'll just voice my personal opinion.

ANY data would be better than your guess.

And more accurate.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[lawrocket 3]

Professor:

This so-called "crisis" is not being caused by "prime" mortgage holders defaulting. It is being caused by a tanking of the sub-prime mortgages. That's why there is STILL liquidity in the prime mortgage market. The secondary mortgage market is not doing well right now.

What is a "subprime" mortgage? They are notes for borrowers who do not qualify for standard market loans due to risks such as no down payment, bad credit, or low income for the loan. so "low income" is a misleading and ambiguous term, in many senses.

So if a person making $40k per year gets a loan for a $500k house with no down payment, then we see a problem with "low income" from a loan point of view, but not "low income" from a political point of view,.

Now, part of the reason for the high foreclosures in Modesto and Stockton was because of the location and price. I moved to Fresno instead of my wife movign to the Los Angeles area because of the cost of living. We had lots of people like me - starting a life in a place where they could afford it. And they bit off more than they could chew.

Stockton and Sacramento and Modesto saw some of the highest increases - and highest drops. Thus, the largets foreclosures.

Still, here in Fresno, more than half of foreclosures have been off of refinances and equity loans. Yep. People seeing the great rates and appreciation and taking the money out. The house was an ATM - and they never thought about how the are going to pay that money back.

On average, two refinances or equity loans (or a combo) occurred before losing the house. This indicates that it was not a problem of rich or poor. It was a problem of home ownership.

Also, Sac/Modesto/Stockton are areas of a LOT of working class - particularly field workers. Some anecdotal evidence suggests a large number of these people losing the homes. I personally haven't seen anything but the opposite. The immigrants are the ones who more than ANYONE find a way to do it by taking on renters in the homes with them.

In my experience, these are the LAST people who default. Because they aren't fully Americanized, they still have too much pride to do that.

So, to answer the question: Stockton and Sac see huges increases. There was a mix of factors, from refinances of those who wanted to take money out working class people getting these loans to get a new house in a community they thought they could afford.

The loans that are dying are subprime.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 2,150]

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Professor:

This so-called "crisis" is not being caused by "prime" mortgage holders defaulting. It is being caused by a tanking of the sub-prime mortgages. That's why there is STILL liquidity in the prime mortgage market. The secondary mortgage market is not doing well right now.

What is a "subprime" mortgage? They are notes for borrowers who do not qualify for standard market loans due to risks such as no down payment, bad credit, or low income for the loan. so "low income" is a misleading and ambiguous term, in many senses.

.

Sure.

So what % of these can be blamed on the CRA, which seems to be the current excuse of the right wingers?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rickjump1 0]

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>Well, you must be proud of yourself.

Actually, I am proud of what I have accomplished. I hope you are proud of what you have accomplished as well.

>Being enrolled in ROTC . . .

Hmm. So given your opposition to credit card companies that advertise to students, due to their vulnerability or something, can I take it that you oppose ROTC recruiting at schools as well?

> From the beginning, I have not targeted college students; just the
>credit card companies that prey on students before they enter the
>work force. Apparently you think this is fine.

Not only do I think it's fine - if I were in charge of credit card companies it's what I'd do.

If you were a lender, who would you want as your client:

-a Harvard junior
-an orthopedic surgery resident
-an out of work high school dropout

You would be wise to take the junior or the resident over the high school dropout.

(Now, as to using people's personal information for such purposes without their permission - that's a different issue, and that IS a problem. But that's not what we're talking about here.)

Nothing wrong with recruiting on campus for ROTC. It gives students a chance to serve their country and a career.

As for credit card companies signing up students and allowing them to get in debt before they graduate while knowing not all will be employed after graduation (lucky you), I think it's predatory. Of course the credit card companies don't care who defaults because the paying customers will pick up the tab. Kind of reminds me of the our government and me the taxpayer. Bill, you may have missed your calling in the credit card business. I sure agree with you about handing over personal information.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[georgerussia 0]

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ANY data would be better than your guess.

So how do you see collecting this data? Walking around through the neighborhood and asking everyone like, hey guys did you lie about your income to get a mortgage?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[vortexring 0]

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>Well, you must be proud of yourself.

Actually, I am proud of what I have accomplished. I hope you are proud of what you have accomplished as well.

>Being enrolled in ROTC . . .

Hmm. So given your opposition to credit card companies that advertise to students, due to their vulnerability or something, can I take it that you oppose ROTC recruiting at schools as well?

> From the beginning, I have not targeted college students; just the
>credit card companies that prey on students before they enter the
>work force. Apparently you think this is fine.

Not only do I think it's fine - if I were in charge of credit card companies it's what I'd do.

If you were a lender, who would you want as your client:

-a Harvard junior
-an orthopedic surgery resident
-an out of work high school dropout

You would be wise to take the junior or the resident over the high school dropout.

(Now, as to using people's personal information for such purposes without their permission - that's a different issue, and that IS a problem. But that's not what we're talking about here.)

Nothing wrong with recruiting on campus for ROTC. It gives students a chance to serve their country and a career.

As for credit card companies signing up students and allowing them to get in debt before they graduate while knowing not all will be employed after graduation (lucky you), I think it's predatory. Of course the credit card companies don't care who defaults because the paying customers will pick up the tab. Kind of reminds me of the our government and me the taxpayer. Bill, you may have missed your calling in the credit card business. I sure agree with you about handing over personal information.

The credit card companies are without doubt predatory. What's moral or not isn't the point though - they need to be predatory. I fully recognize your point though; it also applies to unscrupulous money lenders targetting the less wealthy, and of course; mortgage lenders providing loans to people who quite obviously won't be able to afford the repayments on the property. So I agree it's a contributing factor. As is borrowing beyond ones means.

Around 10 years I was in a London wine bar with a friend who worked in the City. It was about 1730 on a summers day. The bar was full of people, mostly wearing designer suits, several drinking champagne and a few smoking cigars; who all generally came across as successful managers/big time traders. I remember him saying: "It's nonsense - most of them are bank tellers or civil servants on about £20000 a year if they're lucky - they're up to their eyeballs in debt, and it's all for the image! The countries swimming deeper into
personal debt! It's all coming crashing down sooner or later..."

And it's been fairly obvious that it's coming, has it not?

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[billvon 3,120]

>Nothing wrong with recruiting on campus for ROTC. It gives students a chance
>to serve their country and a career.

Fair enough. Nothing wrong with sending credit card applications either. It gives students a chance to access some credit that they may need. If they are smart enough to be able to commit a large chunk of their lives to serving their country (and potentially getting killed) they are definitely smart enough to get a credit card.

>As for credit card companies signing up students and allowing them to get in
>debt before they graduate while knowing not all will be employed after graduation
>(lucky you), I think it's predatory.

Why do you think that students are mature enough to choose a military career over a civilian one, but not mature enough to use a credit card? If anything, credit cards are safer; they rarely get the people who use them killed.

[rickjump1 0]

The students who run up credit card debt are not mature enough to choose the military as a career. Part of an ROTC student's training does cover financial responsibility for an officer.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[vortexring 0]

The reasons for serving in the military and spending on ones credit card are quite different.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[vortexring 0]

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The students who run up credit card debt are not mature enough to choose the military as a career.

You should see some of the cars our junior officers drive....

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[rickjump1 0]

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The students who run up credit card debt are not mature enough to choose the military as a career.

You should see some of the cars our junior officers drive....

Give an example. Better than the CO's ?

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[vortexring 0]

If I'm honest it isn't so apparent these days - although I reckon that's to do with a completely unrelated issue in regards to; dare I say it...class!

I've often noticed new Lieutenant 'Spunktrumpets' driving rather expensive cars in relation to their modest salaries....and they weren't paid for with their parents money...

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[rickjump1 0]

Thursday, July 10, 2008
Consumer Warning Network Report: FSU Profits Off of Student Credit Card Debt
TAMPA, Fla., July 10, 2008 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ ----The Consumer Warning Network has just released a report exposing secret details of a marketing agreement between Florida State University and credit card giant Bank of America.

At the same time Florida State University is warning students in a slick video to avoid the "credit card monster," the university is funneling their names and addresses to credit card giant Bank of America. The bank then uses that information to market credit cards to those very same students, as part of an "exclusive" deal allowing the bank to use FSU's official colors and symbols.

Consumer Warning Network has obtained a copy of the contract between the Seminole Boosters, FSU's athletic fundraising arm, and Bank of America. The deal, which FSU endorsed in a side letter, was supposed to remain confidential.

Under the secret terms of the agreement, FSU pockets a piece of every dollar charged by students and alumni under the program, with a guarantee of more than $10 million over 7 years. That money goes directly to the private Seminole Boosters, FSU's athletic fundraising arm, which among other things helps pay the multi-million dollar salaries of coaches like Bobby Bowden.

The card marketed to students by Bank of America has less favorable terms, like higher interest rates, than its non-student credit cards.

Students on campus were troubled by their school's role in the deal. "It's like they're setting us up for failure," said Yari Alpizar, a freshman from Marathon, Florida. "I don't think they should be allowed to do this. It's an invasion of privacy."

FSU is not alone. Bank of America has acknowledged it has arrangements similar to the one with FSU with more than 900 participating schools and colleges. Congress and some State Attorneys General are investigating these relationships between credit card companies and Universities.

To read the entire report and review the supporting information visit: www.consumerwarningnetwork.com . The Consumer Warning Network is website launched by a team of former Federal Prosecutors, Investigative Journalists and former FBI Agents working together to expose fraud and educate the public on consumer issues.

SOURCE Consumer Warning Network

http://www.consumerwarningnetwork.com
[url]

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[rickjump1 0]

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If I'm honest it isn't so apparent these days - although I reckon that's to do with a completely unrelated issue in regards to; dare I say it...class!

I've often noticed new Lieutenant 'Spunktrumpets' driving rather expensive cars in relation to their modest salaries....and they weren't paid for with their parents money...

I wrecked a new Baracuda 2 weeks before going to Vietnam the first time. My next new car was a VW bug that I still miss.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[vortexring 0]

Well, seeing as the saving rates aren't exactly great over here, I thought fuck it, and splashed out on this bad boy:

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[rickjump1 0]

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Well, seeing as the saving rates aren't exactly great over here, I thought fuck it, and splashed out on this bad boy:

Interesting: tricycle gear, lots of room for the crew, and looks like it will fly. What is VNE.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[vortexring 0]

About 50kts mate; but that's with a low AUM, low temps and DA. I'm still working on compressability and RBS issues. Max AOB is around 2.5 degrees. Anything past 3 degrees without considerable back pressure and the VSI goes through the scale!!

And I think I've gone and utterly hijacked another thread - sorry Marg!

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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As for credit card companies signing up students and allowing them to get in debt before they graduate while knowing not all will be employed after graduation (lucky you), I think it's predatory. Of course the credit card companies don't care who defaults because the paying customers will pick up the tab.

In the aggregate that's not the case. Credit card companies are about making lots of money. If students defaulting them cost them money they wouldn't give students cards.

It's a simple game where the odds favor the house. Various risk categories get rates which mean that the credit card companies win even when more than the expected number default.

Since most people don't change credit cards students might get slightly better rates, since most will graduate, get higher limits, and continue to live beyond their means running up bigger charges on their higher incomes.

With a few exceptions ( rewards programs when you pay off your balance, the annual fee isn't out of line, you can put lots on there like business travel or rent, and the tiered rewards don't keep you from winning; balance transfers onto an otherwise empty card you never use for anything else where the rate was substantially less than prevailing interest, capped for life, and transfer fees were capped) the only way to win is not to play.

Cheap cards charge 8%. Living within your means and saving for vacations, car repairs, etc. pays even bigger rewards than that because the government doesn't tax what you don't earn. With high taxes not paying 8% interest is like earning 13% which you can't even do in the stock market.

[nerdgirl 0]

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The students who run up credit card debt are not mature enough to choose the military as a career. Part of an ROTC student's training does cover financial responsibility for an officer.

Perhaps not credit cards … & perhaps not ROTC students ... but the data is equivocal.

E.g., an August 2006 DoD Report, “Report on Predatory Lending Practices Directed at Members of the Armed Forces and Their Dependents” found that 17% of military service members use payday loans, primarily but not exclusively enlisted E-5 and below.

"This report documents the alarming growth of the predatory lending industry, illustrates why members of the Armed Forces are prime victims and makes concrete recommendations on action [regulations] to fix the problem."
-from the letter signed by AMD Steve Abbot (USN, ret) included in the report

Those findings was part of the underlying argument for legislation {i.e., regulation) capping interest at 36% (as opposed to the 390 to 780% usury annual interest rates that the DoD found) back in 2006 that was included in the 2007 Defense Authorization Act. (Btw: the investiagtion & report was required eh, 'requested' action by Congress from the 2006 Defense Authorization Act.)

Anecdotally, I've observed the preponderance of payday lending storefronts that have joined other establishments typically found outside military installations. Less anecdotally and from the DoD report, “Near McChord Air Force Base and Fort Lewis, there are four times as many payday lenders per capita compared to residents living in the rest of Washington State. Within 3 miles of Fort Hood’s perimeter, there are at least 18 payday lenders and 13 of those are within one mile of base.”

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[nerdgirl 0]

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A typical college student has ~$2700 in credit card debt.

The debt burden on college grads from student loans is increasing significantly. The National Center for Education Statistics (NCES), part of the Dept of Ed, found that ~50% of recent college graduate have student loans, with an average student loan debt of $21,000 (2007). That's a doubling of average loan debt in less than 8 years. Some are much higher & obviously, some are much lower. The highest average loan burden is Washington, D.C., which has an average student debt burden of $27,757.

I *wish* I had that kind of debt......

Ah, yes, postgraduate debt.

From NLW for 2006: “About 80 percent of law school students obtain loans to pay for law school, and the average loan debt is $76,763 for private law school graduates and $48,910 for public school graduates.”

From AMA for 2007: According to the Association of American Medical Colleges, the average debt burden was for medical school students was $139,517. 75.5% owe at least $100,000 and only 12.4% finish medical school with no loans (wonder how many of those were paid for through USG programs?)

Additionally, “the average debt of graduating medical students increased in 2007 by 6.9 percent over the previous year.”

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying