Ron Paul's message on the bailout

[livendive 8]

Received in email today

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Wednesday, September 24, 2008

Dear Friends,

Whenever a Great Bipartisan Consensus is announced, and a compliant media assures everyone that the wondrous actions of our wise leaders are being taken for our own good, you can know with absolute certainty that disaster is about to strike.

The events of the past week are no exception.

The bailout package that is about to be rammed down Congress' throat is not just economically foolish. It is downright sinister. It makes a mockery of our Constitution, which our leaders should never again bother pretending is still in effect. It promises the American people a never-ending nightmare of ever-greater debt liabilities they will have to shoulder. Two weeks ago, financial analyst Jim Rogers said the bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac made America more communist than China! "This is welfare for the rich," he said. "This is socialism for the rich. It's bailing out the financiers, the banks, the Wall Streeters."

That describes the current bailout package to a T. And we're being told it's unavoidable.

The claim that the market caused all this is so staggeringly foolish that only politicians and the media could pretend to believe it. But that has become the conventional wisdom, with the desired result that those responsible for the credit bubble and its predictable consequences - predictable, that is, to those who understand sound, Austrian economics - are being let off the hook. The Federal Reserve System is actually positioning itself as the savior, rather than the culprit, in this mess!

• The Treasury Secretary is authorized to purchase up to $700 billion in mortgage-related assets at any one time. That means $700 billion is only the very beginning of what will hit us.

• Financial institutions are "designated as financial agents of the Government." This is the New Deal to end all New Deals.

• Then there's this: "Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency." Translation: the Secretary can buy up whatever junk debt he wants to, burden the American people with it, and be subject to no one in the process.

There goes your country.

Even some so-called free-market economists are calling all this "sadly necessary." Sad, yes. Necessary? Don't make me laugh.

Our one-party system is complicit in yet another crime against the American people. The two major party candidates for president themselves initially indicated their strong support for bailouts of this kind - another example of the big choice we're supposedly presented with this November: yes or yes. Now, with a backlash brewing, they're not quite sure what their views are. A sad display, really.

Although the present bailout package is almost certainly not the end of the political atrocities we'll witness in connection with the crisis, time is short. Congress may vote as soon as tomorrow. With a Rasmussen poll finding support for the bailout at an anemic seven percent, some members of Congress are afraid to vote for it. Call them! Let them hear from you! Tell them you will never vote for anyone who supports this atrocity.

The issue boils down to this: do we care about freedom? Do we care about responsibility and accountability? Do we care that our government and media have been bought and paid for? Do we care that average Americans are about to be looted in order to subsidize the fattest of cats on Wall Street and in government? Do we care?

When the chips are down, will we stand up and fight, even if it means standing up against every stripe of fashionable opinion in politics and the media?

Times like these have a way of telling us what kind of a people we are, and what kind of country we shall be.

In liberty,
Ron Paul

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[FallingOsh 0]

Doesn't seem that profound to me. All of those issues have been discussed on here and in the media.

I failed to find his answer to the problem. Is it simply that congress should vote no? Then what?

Seemed like a lot of rambling with no suggestions.

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Stay positive and love your life.

[livendive 8]

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Doesn't seem that profound to me. All of those issues have been discussed on here and in the media.

I failed to find his answer to the problem. Is it simply that congress should vote no? Then what?

Seemed like a lot of rambling with no suggestions.

I think he was advocating no bail-out, but you're free to interpret as you wish. I made no commentary, I simply relayed a different politician's view on the subject for those here who might not be on his email distribution.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[normiss 891]

Fucking A it should be a resounding NO!
No bailout for citizens with new bankruptcy laws, no bailouts for the idiots that overextended the companies they were running either.
They should be hounded to pay that shit back until their heirs die three times over - possibly five.

[livendive 8]

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Fucking A it should be a resounding NO!
No bailout for citizens with new bankruptcy laws, no bailouts for the idiots that overextended the companies they were running either.
They should be hounded to pay that shit back until their heirs die three times over - possibly five.

I've said before that I don't really understand the ramifications well enough to speak in definite terms, but I'm more inclined to agree with you than I am the banking industry and most of these politicians.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[normiss 891]

If nothing more than the facts that banking lobbyists pushed for favorable legislation that allowed them to "profit" their way into this situation...with political backing of course.
Some of the largest banks in this country make more money off of ruining people's lives...

But I would have to agree with you on me not understanding the ramifications of ALL of this mess in the first place.

[Amazon 7]

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No bailout for citizens with new bankruptcy laws,

Uh remember that credit card thing that got passed by the Bush Administration.. at the behest of Credit card companies???

They have already changed the bankruptcy laws in thier favor by bending individual creditors over for the credit card companies to butt fuck.

[lawrocket 3]

Interesting. The person making $30k per year with $30k in credit card debt got bent over.

In related news, a 21 year-old kid who got drunk and stole a plane for a joyride, snapping off the wings, was also butt-fucked by general aviation.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[livendive 8]

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Interesting. The person making $30k per year with $30k in credit card debt got bent over.

In related news, a 21 year-old kid who got drunk and stole a plane for a joyride, snapping off the wings, was also butt-fucked by general aviation.

Your analagous scenario doesn't make sense. The companies stupid enough to give $30k in credit card limits to someone making $30k/year ought to bear some of the responsibility for their own poor choices. By contrast general aviation should bear zero responsibility for the actions of a drunken thief, especially if he's not even a member of "general aviation".

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[kallend 2,146]

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Interesting. The person making $30k per year with $30k in credit card debt got bent over.

In related news, a 21 year-old kid who got drunk and stole a plane for a joyride, snapping off the wings, was also butt-fucked by general aviation.

Your analagous scenario doesn't make sense. The companies stupid enough to give $30k in credit card limits to someone making $30k/year ought to bear some of the responsibility for their own poor choices. By contrast general aviation should bear zero responsibility for the actions of a drunken thief, especially if he's not even a member of "general aviation".

Blues,
Dave

He just made the analogy with the wrong people.

Those behaving like drunken kids were the whizzes in the real estate companies, mortgage brokers, and bankers who thought they'd discovered an inexhaustable fountain of money and that there would be no day of reckoning.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[tkhayes 348]

why does Ron Paul have to have a solution? One can see flaws in a plan without having a plan themselves. I have no idea what the 'solution' is either. More and more I feel that there is no solution. Therefore let it fall.

Let the depression happen. Let the people become unemployed. At least then, they will have more time on their hands to protest, form lynch mobs and burn down the houses of the CEO's and bankers that got us into this mess.

That might in the long term do more for the economy than spending MY MONEY on helping some fuck CEO get his $100M bonus.

The very fact that Bush tells me on TV last night that "we must do this" leads me to believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with it. I do not believe nor trust a single fucking word that comes out of that assholes mouth.

Neither party is going to fix this. But are the republicans going to spend $700B in a panic buy just so the Republican Party can look good and help to get McCain elected? Stinks of the Patriot Act. Let's rush some ill-thought stuff through on a knee jerk reaction to solve a problem that has been years/decades in the making.

Un-regulated capitalism that allows the lobbyists to buy the legislation that controls them yields these results. The system is broken. Let it break so we can all learn from it.

You stop the bleeding by stopping the bleeding. Stop spending my money. Control the deficit. That includes the military, the government, the projects, the whole budget.

TK

PS - Christ - I sound like a Republican......

[livendive 8]

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PS - Christ - I sound like a Republican......

And Vinny is advocating socialism. Maybe there is a silver lining to all this.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Rookie120 0]

I cannot people see the housing and market crash as a surprise. I was yellin this several years ago when I was still in college. When I saw crack homes on the market in denver for $150,00-$200,000. People paying inflated prices for a home because they heard on the news home prices were skyrocketing and they thought they could make a quick buck. So fuck the lenders and fuck the dumb asses who signed a shitty mortgage deal. Now people say some people were dooped into a bad deal on there home when they financed it. You mean to tell me some asshat was about to spend $300,000 on a home they could never afford before but now somehow they can but they couldnt spend $500 to have lawyer look at the contract for them and explain it to them? They gambled and they lost! Tough shit! Take your lumps and move on. When my dads company went bankrupt nobody was there to bail him out. He learned from it and moved on.


Wall ST. wants us to bail them out now? What about the last 10 years when they have been rollin in the dough? Didnt hear shit then. Now they made bad decisions and lost and want our help. FUCK THEM! This entire bailout is a disgrace.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[normiss 891]

Maybe we could start by stopping the "College Credit Draft" type programs the credit card companies do.
Giving a college kid with no income (much less verifying ANY info) a stack of credit cards is an amazing lesson in American Economics.

[Amazon 7]

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And Vinny is advocating socialism. Maybe there is a silver lining to all this.

Do you think we are finally seeing all the trickle downists on here....starting to feel trickled on???

[Lucky... 0]

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Interesting. The person making $30k per year with $30k in credit card debt got bent over.

In related news, a 21 year-old kid who got drunk and stole a plane for a joyride, snapping off the wings, was also butt-fucked by general aviation.

Yea, no makey sense. Do you mean the FAA? Ananlogy doesn't work.

[kallend 2,146]

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Maybe we could start by stopping the "College Credit Draft" type programs the credit card companies do.
Giving a college kid with no income (much less verifying ANY info) a stack of credit cards is an amazing lesson in American Economics.

Do you have any evidence that these led in any way to the Wall Street meltdown? Or are you just trying to be cute?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Lucky... 0]

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I cannot people see the housing and market crash as a surprise. I was yellin this several years ago when I was still in college. When I saw crack homes on the market in denver for $150,00-$200,000. People paying inflated prices for a home because they heard on the news home prices were skyrocketing and they thought they could make a quick buck. So fuck the lenders and fuck the dumb asses who signed a shitty mortgage deal. Now people say some people were dooped into a bad deal on there home when they financed it. You mean to tell me some asshat was about to spend $300,000 on a home they could never afford before but now somehow they can but they couldnt spend $500 to have lawyer look at the contract for them and explain it to them? They gambled and they lost! Tough shit! Take your lumps and move on. When my dads company went bankrupt nobody was there to bail him out. He learned from it and moved on.


Wall ST. wants us to bail them out now? What about the last 10 years when they have been rollin in the dough? Didnt hear shit then. Now they made bad decisions and lost and want our help. FUCK THEM! This entire bailout is a disgrace.

10 years? Brilliant, gotta tie everything into the Clinton Admin, even if you have to fabricate. I bought a house 10 years ago, they were reasonably priced wth 7% interest. They would appreciate about 4-5% per year; nothing crazy about it.

[billvon 3,107]

>The claim that the market caused all this is so staggeringly foolish . . .

Of course the market caused this. Control of interest rates provided a framework, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac provided vehicles for poor decision-making, and deregulation gave bad behavior a green light - but market decisions are the direct cause.

Ron Paul is usually smarter than that. He's falling into the same "BLAME! BLAME! Give me someone to BLAME!" silliness that everyone else is.

[kallend 2,146]

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>The claim that the market caused all this is so staggeringly foolish . . .

Of course the market caused this. Control of interest rates provided a framework, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac provided vehicles for poor decision-making, and deregulation gave bad behavior a green light - but market decisions are the direct cause.

Ron Paul is usually smarter than that. He's falling into the same "BLAME! BLAME! Give me someone to BLAME!" silliness that everyone else is.

Do you think no-one is to blame?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[FallingOsh 0]

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10 years? Brilliant, gotta tie everything into the Clinton Admin, even if you have to fabricate. I bought a house 10 years ago, they were reasonably priced wth 7% interest. They would appreciate about 4-5% per year; nothing crazy about it.

He said '10 years when they were rollin in the dough.' Meaning the market has been doing well. Calm down.

--------------------------------------------------
Stay positive and love your life.

[downwardspiral 0]

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Wall ST. wants us to bail them out now? What about the last 10 years when they have been rollin in the dough? Didnt hear shit then. Now they made bad decisions and lost and want our help. FUCK THEM! This entire bailout is a disgrace.

Try reading that again.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[FallingOsh 0]

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>The claim that the market caused all this is so staggeringly foolish . . .

Of course the market caused this. Control of interest rates provided a framework, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac provided vehicles for poor decision-making, and deregulation gave bad behavior a green light - but market decisions are the direct cause.

Ron Paul is usually smarter than that. He's falling into the same "BLAME! BLAME! Give me someone to BLAME!" silliness that everyone else is.

Do you think no-one is to blame?

I think he clearly described the problem. Some provided framework, some gave the go-ahead, and some bit off way more than they could chew.

Do you think one person or entity is to blame?

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Stay positive and love your life.

[billvon 3,107]

>Do you think no-one is to blame?

Like I said, the direct blame goes squarely on the bankers who have been making some very bad deals for debt instruments. The indirect blame falls on the politicians who created incentives to make those bad deals and then removed many of the restrictions intended to prevent those bad deals.

[normiss 891]

I'm already cute, but thanks for asking.

It's part of a foundation of thinking that has affected the majority of our poor financial decisions in this country. Teaching a kid fresh into college that over-extending themselves leads right into them thinking it's the American way of money.

You have evidence this doesn't contribute?