Shooting in Finnish school

[quade 4]

You need to be 23 to get an ATP. Not that regionals would require that for sitting in the right seat, but he probably wasn't the pilot in command without it.

A Commercial Pilot Certificate allows you to do commercial work like being a flight instructor.

A typical regional won't consider anyone younger than 21 and that person would have to be exceptional and would be a co-pilot for quite awhile.

http://www.pilotjobs.com/default.lasso?t=American%20Eagle&page=airline&airline=37

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[downwardspiral 0]

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The US Army has a warrant officer program for pilots. The minimum age is 18. During Vietnam, many went got into gunships during flight school and went straight to combat after graduation. Of course they were just flying helicopters and not on bombing missions.

just flying helicopters? As if it's somehow child's play compared to fixed wing? HAH!

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[birdlike 0]

That brings up another age-discrimination type of issue.

We are "adults" at 18, but don't have full legal rights.
Can't drink, can't buy a handgun...

And then there are the things like this, where you can't get an ATP rating until you're 23?! WTF?!

And then there's the shit about not renting a car until you're 25, but I think that's the companies deciding that, not the government. (I rented and drove a 20 foot box truck 200 miles from college to home when I was 19... because Hertz-Penske had no such age restriction.)

I think we should pick an age -- and it might be 21, possibly -- to make the NEW "age of majority," and STICK to it, allowing that to be the universal age at which you acquire ALL of your adult rights. This beating around the bush bullshit should stop.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[billvon 3,080]

>I take it you agree that the U.S. death penalty and the 3rd Reich
>make for an apt comparison? Un-freakin'-believable.

Well, gun supporters think that model rocket motors and handguns are a good comparison. Pot, meet kettle.

[quade 4]

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I think we should pick an age -- and it might be 21, possibly -- to make the NEW "age of majority," and STICK to it, allowing that to be the universal age at which you acquire ALL of your adult rights. This beating around the bush bullshit should stop.

Should a person be able to sit in the Oval Office at 18?

No. There are certain things that require higher and higher levels of maturity.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rickjump1 0]

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And yet if that 18-year-old went to join the military and was trained to fly jets faster than the speed of sound, and drop 1000 lb. bombs on human beings and buildings, you'd say "OK," right? Or do you have an objection 18-year-old adults joining the military?

Just to be fair on the entire nomenclature issue . . .

Much like there isn't a "22-millimeter caliber handgun," I seriously doubt you'll find many 18-year-old jet pilots on bombing missions.

Certainly not in the US forces and I doubt anywhere else as well.

The US Army has a warrant officer program for pilots. The minimum age is 18. During Vietnam, many went got into gunships during flight school and went straight to combat after graduation. Of course they were just flying helicopters and not on bombing missions.

I think if you do a search on the "High School to Flight School" program and it's results, you'll be extraordinarily hard pressed to find any 18-year-old pilots. The very youngest I found was a 20-year-old.

The title "High School to Flight School" is essentially a bait and switch tactic to get kids to come in to be recruited. Very few people that walk in the door trying to get in the program actually do. That's not to say it's not possible for an 18-year-old to be accepted into it, but he's still probably not going to be flying a mission of any sort at 18.

Most recruiters will try and talk people into signing up for a different speciality before flight school because of the large amount of paperwork involved for the potential flight candidate: additional tests and a flight physical. Mature high school graduates with the right attitude and scores can go to fligh school (after basic training). There were over 40,000 Army pilots during the Vietnam war; the bulk being young warrant officers.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[rickjump1 0]

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The US Army has a warrant officer program for pilots. The minimum age is 18. During Vietnam, many went got into gunships during flight school and went straight to combat after graduation. Of course they were just flying helicopters and not on bombing missions.

just flying helicopters? As if it's somehow child's play compared to fixed wing? HAH!

Didn't mean it that way, but in a helicopter you do get close and cozy with the peope tying to knock you out of the sky.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[Ron 10]

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Maybe it's because guns are used in tens of THOUSANDS of homicides and hundreds of THOUSANDS of other crimes every year, and there's no instance of anyone ever using APCP in a crime anywhre.

Still, you support one area of govt intervention while crying about another. This is the problem. It is like the old pilots saying...Noise up to and including mine is just fine. Anything above mine or yours is unacceptable.

You support regulation only on the items you don't care about.

That, is a double standard.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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Your country does it still nowadays. And calls it legal.

A small difference, it IS legal here.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[birdlike 0]

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Your country does it still nowadays. And calls it legal.

A small difference, it IS legal here.

And let's remember, here it is done after a long and arduous process of determining a little something called "GUILT."

In Germany, it was done after determining a little something called, "You ain't Aryan, so you get to die in a gas chamber with hundreds of others who also haven't committed any crime."

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[Ron 10]

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Our societies are too different.

Then why do you think your ways should be forced on us?

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For us it's absolutely not normal, to let a kid grow up with (handling of) weapons. An exception might be a family of hunters, where grandpa, dad and kid go together, so the young one is going to learn from the beginning (what is not a bad thing!) to treat a weapon for what it is: No toy, it's deadly. But that's quite rare.

See, that's not so rare here. My father taught me about weapons when I was quite young. He started me with a BB gun at about 6 with supervision and around 8 without. We made regular trips to ranges after that, and in fact STILL go shooting when I am at home.

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We have no need to be armed in private life.

I said it a hundred times and will repeat again: I (we are) am leaving home at any time - day and night - w/o carrying any weapon (on me). My city with about 1 million inhabitants is not that small, we have our crime rate. But do not need to be armed.

And I don't carry a weapon either. I however respect the right of people to carry if they choose. My Dad is almost 70, my sister weighs 105 pounds, my Mom is 60 with a bad hip. THEY are not as able as I am to defend myself and are MUCH more likely to be targeted than I am.

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If our kids would have access to weapons as easy as yours have, I'd blame government and lousy laws. Not the person itself.

And I blame your society for not teaching your kids about these items and instead regulated them almost out of existence. If your parents had actually taught about gun safety, then maybe your govt would not have needed to pass laws taking them from the citizens.

But notice *I* am not trying to push my views on *YOU*. You are free to make your own choices...Respect mine.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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I feel that there should be some sort of training (and recurrent training at that) -required- to buy and own them.

I am all for training....But the problem comes in when they make that training impossible to pass. For example in some places you can get a CHL, but you need an LEO signature....Good luck actually getting that.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[christelsabine 1]

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Your country does it still nowadays. And calls it legal.

A small difference, it IS legal here.

Yep. That's what it's called today. 60+ years ago, it's been called legal (here), too. Unfortunately.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[birdlike 0]

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Your country does it still nowadays. And calls it legal.

A small difference, it IS legal here.

Yep. That's what it's called today. 60+ years ago, it's been called legal (here), too. Unfortunately.

Still comparing the "legal" wholesale rounding up of many thousands (then millions) of people and putting them to death for committing no crime with the arrest, trial, conviction and execution of individual murderers, I see.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[christelsabine 1]

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Our societies are too different.

....
Then why do you think your ways should be forced on us?
....

Oh man. That's exactly the crux: I (we) do not want to force our system on you. Be armed as much as you want!

Just leave us alone with our unarmed society!

Have a look at all these threads/posts of Jeffrey, JR etc. trying to convince (us) that we need to be armed! And all these idiotic comments that we have to be armed, "we want to be armed (which is BS, nobody wants here)"...

We, the "gun-o-phobes" (say: Europeans) rarely start threads about gun incidents. Mainly, it's coming from your side. Just check it.

In fact, you (not you personally) know nothing about living in an unarmed society. But I know and I prefer to keep the system as it is.

And with every new thread about shootings, killings etc. in your country - started by your gun-lovers itself - I'll reply same way. These threads itself does confirm my attitude towards an armed society.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[christelsabine 1]

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...
Still comparing the "legal" wholesale rounding up of many thousands (then millions) of people and putting them to death for committing no crime with the arrest, trial, conviction and execution of individual murderers, I see.

I really dislike to repeat myself but, just do the math and add some more figures, such like death toll caused by your atomic bombs, and and and ... Iraq.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Ron 10]

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Oh man. That's exactly the crux: I (we) do not want to force our system on you. Be armed as much as you want!

Your posts say otherwise.

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We, the "gun-o-phobes" (say: Europeans) rarely start threads about gun incidents. Mainly, it's coming from your side. Just check it.

And yet on each thread, there you, and others like you, are posting saying those that wish to be able to be armed are inncorrect, foolish, juvinile....ect.

For someone that claims not to care...You sure do post a lot about it.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[christelsabine 1]

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Oh man. That's exactly the crux: I (we) do not want to force our system on you. Be armed as much as you want!

Your posts say otherwise.

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We, the "gun-o-phobes" (say: Europeans) rarely start threads about gun incidents. Mainly, it's coming from your side. Just check it.

And yet on each thread, there you, and others like you, are posting saying those that wish to be able to be armed are inncorrect, foolish, juvinile....ect.

For someone that claims not to care...You sure do post a lot about it.

Yes. I do. Again: Look at the threads. These were replies. No one from "our" side of the pond did start a thread attacking the gun-lovers. It's always has been a reply from our side. Replies, dear Ron.

Replies, just explaining why we do not want to be fully armed We do not start a thread attacking you for having guns.

Your gun lovers showed a lot of incidents, in which people were killed. Let's say, on a daily basis.

We do not like to have it here. So just leave us alone with your 2nd amendment, which is not matching our society at all. Go on posting shootings, killings in schools, restaurants, whatever you like - this just is confirming that you guys are wiping out yourself.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Oh man. That's exactly the crux: I (we) do not want to force our system on you. Be armed as much as you want!

Your posts say otherwise.

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We, the "gun-o-phobes" (say: Europeans) rarely start threads about gun incidents. Mainly, it's coming from your side. Just check it.

And yet on each thread, there you, and others like you, are posting saying those that wish to be able to be armed are inncorrect, foolish, juvinile....ect.

For someone that claims not to care...You sure do post a lot about it.

Yes. I do. Again: Look at the threads. These were replies. No one from "our" side of the pond did start a thread attacking the gun-lovers. It's always has been a reply from our side. Replies, dear Ron.

Replies, just explaining why we do not want to be fully armed We do not start a thread attacking you for having guns.

Your gun lovers showed a lot of incidents, in which people were killed. Let's say, on a daily basis.

We do not like to have it here. So just leave us alone with your 2nd amendment, which is not matching our society at all. Go on posting shootings, killings in schools, restaurants, whatever you like - this just is confirming that you guys are wiping out yourself.

At our current firearms murder rate it's going to take 5000 years to match the body count from European governments over the last 100 years. A million killed by the Turks, 20 million by the Nazis, 20 million by Russians, a few hundred thousand in Bosnia, it adds up.

That's what the second amendment is about preventing.

[kelpdiver 2]

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...
Still comparing the "legal" wholesale rounding up of many thousands (then millions) of people and putting them to death for committing no crime with the arrest, trial, conviction and execution of individual murderers, I see.

I really dislike to repeat myself but, just do the math and add some more figures, such like death toll caused by your atomic bombs, and and and ... Iraq.

you should be remarking that that Third Reich was 3 generations ago, and it's not terribly relevant to now. But if you insist on trying to compare Hiroshima and such to the tens of millions the Nazis killed, you're going to get your ass handed to you. There are few parallels to the level of damage they did. Actually, no parallels, though the Japanese might have come close with the tens of millions of Chinese killed. Maybe Stalin too.

Personally, I think it somewhat irrelevant how people are killed, but having been at Auschwitz on Monday, it was apparent that the Nazis were the most organized, bureaucratic mass killers ever. Most genocides, the killers are rampaging brutes. No one else takes the time to save all the shoes and eyeglasses of their victims, and sell the hair to industry for use as a cotton substitute.

[rickjump1 0]

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Oh man. That's exactly the crux: I (we) do not want to force our system on you. Be armed as much as you want!

Your posts say otherwise.

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We, the "gun-o-phobes" (say: Europeans) rarely start threads about gun incidents. Mainly, it's coming from your side. Just check it.

And yet on each thread, there you, and others like you, are posting saying those that wish to be able to be armed are inncorrect, foolish, juvinile....ect.

For someone that claims not to care...You sure do post a lot about it.

Yes. I do. Again: Look at the threads. These were replies. No one from "our" side of the pond did start a thread attacking the gun-lovers. It's always has been a reply from our side. Replies, dear Ron.

Replies, just explaining why we do not want to be fully armed We do not start a thread attacking you for having guns.

Your gun lovers showed a lot of incidents, in which people were killed. Let's say, on a daily basis.

We do not like to have it here. So just leave us alone with your 2nd amendment, which is not matching our society at all. Go on posting shootings, killings in schools, restaurants, whatever you like - this just is confirming that you guys are wiping out yourself.

What's this "we" shit. You got a mouse in your pocket? You speak for all Germans? The only Germans I met were pistol nuts. One stayed here so he could experience the 2nd Amendment. Why does the German arms industry continue to export these wonderful weapons to us (like the ones we use to kill ourselves with). Have a heart.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Christel Sabine has a far different opinion than any of the older germans I ever spoke to, her lack of knowledge of what the Nazi's were really like is a real shame.

If she did know, the comparison of the Nazi's and anyone would never occur.

[MegaGoliath11 0]

yeah its pretty hard to swallow. She keeps comparing the Nazi's to the U.S. presence in Iraq and how that compares to the holocaust. gimme a break!

[billvon 3,080]

>her lack of knowledge of what the Nazi's were really like is a real shame.
>If she did know, the comparison of the Nazi's and anyone would never
>occur.

Warpedskydiver: Police need to work smarter, not become Nazi's.

Warpedskydiver: Iranian Military . . .Anyone here ever noticed all the Nazi like mannerisms they have?.

Warpedskydiver: Lucky, to call someone on this forum a Nazi is disingenous, callous, shitty and deserving of a slap down . . . I may say it about the hildebeast, but she has really earned it.

So I have to ask - when you compare others to Nazis, is it because you have no knowledge of what they were really like?

[Ron 10]

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Yes. I do. Again: Look at the threads. These were replies.

Yes, you REPLIED on threads and expressed your opinion that our way is wrong.

Just because you don't START the thread does not mean anything.

The simple fact is that you do try to tell us we are wrong.

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Replies, just explaining why we do not want to be fully armed We do not start a thread attacking you for having guns.

You don't start a thread, but you do that in your replies.

You want proof? your own post shows you want us to leave you alone...But you feel free to comment on us.

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We do not like to have it here. So just leave us alone with your 2nd amendment, which is not matching our society at all. Go on posting shootings, killings in schools, restaurants, whatever you like - this just is confirming that you guys are wiping out yourself .

Really, you lose all points when you do the very thing you claim you don't do in the same post you claim you don't do it.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334