Shooting in Finnish school

[SpeedRacer 1]

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I thought the Europeans were not plagued by the problems that we cowboy-Americans suffer...

Finnish gun laws are probably the most liberal in Europe. I belive you can by a handgun at the age of 15. The number of guns per capita is twice that of most other European countries.

/Martin

Damn liberals! Oh, wait....

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[christelsabine 1]

It's been changed 18. Still too young.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[akarunway 1]

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from the article:

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She says the man used a 22-millimeter caliber handgun in Tuesday's attack. Holmlund says he got the license for the gun in August.

Holy shit, the bullets would be nearly an inch in diameter! That would do some serious damage!

By the way, 0.22 times one inch would be 5.6 millimeters. Not 22 millimeters.

But WTF would I know.

They need to make it in a Magnum. Now that would be fun to shoot.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[rushmc 23]

Gun control loonies and guns dont mix

This is closer to the truth

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[stitch 0]

Brings a whole new meaning to the term "Finnishing School".

"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

[squarecanopy 0]

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It's been changed 18. Still too young.

How old should you have to be to own a gun?
Especially the 22mm caliber type?

Just burning a hole in the sky.....

[quade 4]

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The police had him in custody related to his posting of his target shooting practice. They let him go. Why? Did he seem to be a loonie or not? If he was there with the police and they couldn't see that he was a loonie, what other records check could have kept him from getting a gun?

Have you seen the video?

It was hardly just target shooting. True, the majority of it was simply him standing and shooting, but his comments and actions at the beginning of it are what were the tip off that he wasn't stable enough to own a gun.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4808358.ece

If the cops that initially saw the video are the same ones that arrested him and then let him go, they should be brought up on charges.

From the article linked above;

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With 1.6 million firearms in private hands, Finland has the world's third highest rate of gun ownership, behind only the United States and Yemen.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mnealtx 0]

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WTF is a "22-millimeter caliber handgun"?!

You do know not that much about guns/handguns/calibers, do you)

Have a look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Long_Rifle

Cal. .22 LR often is used for close season hand guns/guns.

That guy used a Walther P22.

Please show us that 22 millimeter pistol, Christel.

I wasn't aware the Walther made a pistol with a bore of almost an inch.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 2,113]

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WTF is a "22-millimeter caliber handgun"?!

You do know not that much about guns/handguns/calibers, do you)

Have a look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Long_Rifle

Cal. .22 LR often is used for close season hand guns/guns.

That guy used a Walther P22.

Please show us that 22 millimeter pistol, Christel.

I wasn't aware the Walther made a pistol with a bore of almost an inch.

On the topic of "bore", your entire debate over an obvious typo fits the bill perfectly.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Skyrad 0]

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Loonies and guns don't mix.

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"The Finnish news agency STT said the school building was on fire and the gunman reportedly had explosives on him."

Loonies and explosives don't mix.

Guess you are both right. Still he didn't kill with explosives did he. He used a firearm.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[warpedskydiver 0]

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It's been changed 18. Still too young.

This is the problem. if we all treat 18yrs of age as "Children" they will be as responsible as children.

Give it a fucking break, 18 is a damned adult, and you know it.

Society is to blame for this crap.

Treat 18 like the adult they are, in full.

[SpeedRacer 1]

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WTF is a "22-millimeter caliber handgun"?!

You do know not that much about guns/handguns/calibers, do you)

Have a look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Long_Rifle

Cal. .22 LR often is used for close season hand guns/guns.

That guy used a Walther P22.

Please show us that 22 millimeter pistol, Christel.

I wasn't aware the Walther made a pistol with a bore of almost an inch.

Here's a picture of the perpetrator:

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[Andy_Copland 0]

I think too many folks are arguing the pointless shit. Who cares what size it is? A bullet is a bullet when fired in anger.

I dont care if its a .22 or a .50 if its in the hands of someone it shouldn't be

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[JohnRich 4]

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I think too many folks are arguing the pointless shit. Who cares what size it is? A bullet is a bullet when fired in anger.

Yes, but what's interesting here is that the type of handgun used doesn't fit any of the categories that the gun-o-phobes like to blame for crime. It wasn't an "assault weapon". It wasn't a "powerful" gun. It wasn't "easily concealable". It wasn't a "Saturday night special". It didn't have a "silencer". The gun was bought legally. The shooter was of legal age. They've got nowhere to go on this one to use it as an example for banning any category of guns, or creating yet more gun control.

All they can do is what they should have been doing all along - which is to blame the shooter.

What this incident shows is that even .22 caliber target pistols, shooting the smallest bullets of any guns, can still be deadly in the hands of someone evil. Therefore, all the energy spent trying to ban all those other categories is really just a waste of time.

[mnealtx 0]

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All they can do is what they should have been doing all along - which is to blame the shooter.

Unfortunately, they won't.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Ron 10]

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It's been changed 18. Still too young.

I disagree.

If you teach them at an early age about firearms, they are less likely to mishandle them.

Now, nutters like this are always going to exist....And as the story said, he also had explosives with him.

So, blame the person, not the tools.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kallend 2,113]

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It's been changed 18. Still too young.

I disagree.

If you teach them at an early age about firearms, they are less likely to mishandle them.

Now, nutters like this are always going to exist.

Indeed - which is why great care should be taken to prevent them from getting guns.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,113]

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It's been changed 18. Still too young.

Apparently it's still 15 with parents' consent.


I teach dozens of 18-22 year olds every day. The difference in maturity from 18 to 22 is immense.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JohnRich 4]

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in this case it's just called cal .22, and it's 22 mm...

Holy Bullet! There is a thing you can use for shooting which is 22 mm (or more) long! Is that so difficult?

The shooter used a .22 caliber pistol. .22 cartridges come in three lengths: .22 short, long and long-rifle. Even the longest of these, the long-rifle version, has a case that is only 15 mm long. The bullets themselves are only 11 mm long. A complete round with cartridge case and seated bullet is 25 mm long. So the dimension "22 mm" does not fit anything to do with .22 caliber cartridges, bullets or rounds.

No matter how you try and look at it, you're wrong. There is no 22 mm cartridge or bullet involved in this story.

[JohnRich 4]

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...great care should be taken to prevent them from getting guns.

And explosives.

It's ironic how you are so hell-fire bent on keeping loonies from getting guns, yet you want anyone at all to be able to buy all the rocket motor explosives they want without any government oversight whatsoever.

Of course, this double standard comes from your own hobby use of rocket motors. Since you don't like guns, every restriction is okay against them. But when the government cracks down on your own personal hobby, you're outraged! How dare they question your purchase of explosives!

[kallend 2,113]

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...great care should be taken to prevent them from getting guns.

And explosives.

It's ironic how you are so hell-fire bent on keeping loonies from getting guns, yet you want anyone at all to be able to buy all the rocket motor explosives they want without any government oversight whatsoever.

Of course, this double standard comes from your own hobby use of rocket motors. Since you don't like guns, every restriction is okay against them. But when the government cracks down on your own personal hobby, you're outraged! How dare they question your purchase of explosives!

Trouble with your argument is that APCP doesn't explode even if you put a detonator in it or wrap it with det cord.

Care to provide links to any homicides committed by loonies with APCP?

I can provide hundreds for loonies with guns.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Ron 10]

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Indeed - which is why great care should be taken to prevent them from getting guns.

And explosives.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kallend 2,113]

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Indeed - which is why great care should be taken to prevent them from getting guns.

And explosives.

Is there an echo in here?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[millertime24 8]

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...great care should be taken to prevent them from getting guns.

And explosives.

It's ironic how you are so hell-fire bent on keeping loonies from getting guns, yet you want anyone at all to be able to buy all the rocket motor explosives they want without any government oversight whatsoever.

Of course, this double standard comes from your own hobby use of rocket motors. Since you don't like guns, every restriction is okay against them. But when the government cracks down on your own personal hobby, you're outraged! How dare they question your purchase of explosives!

Trouble with your argument is that APCP doesn't explode even if you put a detonator in it or wrap it with det cord.

Care to provide links to any homicides committed by loonies with APCP?

I can provide hundreds for loonies with guns.

True. But I would bet it would if you put it into a sealed steel pipe (which you can get at any hardware store).

Muff #5048

[JohnRich 4]

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Trouble with your argument is that APCP doesn't explode even if you put a detonator in it or wrap it with det cord.

Trouble with your argument is that the BATF has classified it as an explosive. And when the hobby rocket men challenged this determination in court, they lost. So whether you like it or not, it's an "explosive".

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Care to provide links to any homicides committed by loonies with APCP?

I don't have any for that particular substance, but there have certainly been crimes committed with explosives. Nor can I provide examples of private citizens committing crimes with nuclear bombs. But that doesn't mean that the private possession of nuclear bombs should be unregulated.

The fact is, APCP is dangerous stuff, and in a world full of terrorists who want to do us harm, it's prudent to keep track of who's buying it. For a list of how dangerous this stuff is, see this message:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3334959;search_string=apcp;#3334959

If regulation is good enough for guns, it's good enough for explosives.

And why do you consider government oversight good enough for gun owners? Because some people misuse guns, and therefore it is deemed prudent to regulate them for everybody.

So why shouldn't that same logic apply to explosives? If some people misuse it, shouldn't everyone who uses it be regulated? Indeed they should!

Look at Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber. He was a smart guy, a university professor as a matter of fact. He used explosives to injure a lot of people, and his motive was a dislike of American society.

Now let's look at John Kallend. He's a smart guy too, also a university professor. He uses APCP explosives as a hobby, and has the brains to misuse them for criminal purposes if he so desires. Mr. Kallend also continuously expresses his dislike for American society, with repeated negative postings about such in the forum dropzone.com.

Now, before you get your panties in wad, I'm not accusing you of being another Unabomber.

But considering the similarities between Kaczynski and Kallend, and just as gun owners have to bear scrutiny because of the actions of gun criminals, then why shouldn't your purchase of explosives bear the same scrutiny?