birdlike 0 #126 September 27, 2008 Quote Quote ... Still comparing the "legal" wholesale rounding up of many thousands (then millions) of people and putting them to death for committing no crime with the arrest, trial, conviction and execution of individual murderers, I see. I really dislike to repeat myself but, just do the math and add some more figures, such like death toll caused by your atomic bombs, and and and ... Iraq. Um, need I remind you that your country's psychotic aggression is what necessitated our use of our atomic bombs? Or that if your country had managed to squeak by and beat us to developing them, your country would probably be ruling the world right now -- a world with no Jews or blacks or gays...Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #127 September 27, 2008 QuoteYes. I do. Again: Look at the threads. These were replies. You mean, like our use of the atomic bombs on Japan after your country started the Second World War? QuoteNo one from "our" side of the pond did start a thread attacking the gun-lovers. It's always has been a reply from our side. Much like the U.S. military's response to aggression around the world -- oddly enough, twice by Germany.Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #128 September 27, 2008 Quote Quote Quote ... No one else takes the time to save all the shoes and eyeglasses of their victims, and sell the hair to industry for use as a cotton substitute. ... not to talk about all the soap, made of human bones ... You guys love to wallow in these details as long as it's referring to others. Go ahead and clean your own front garden, you surely will find a lot of burried skeletons @ warped, rickjump, Jeffrey: You guys talk too loud. Have a look around were to find the largest Nazi groups these days, you will not have to travel far and do not even need a passport. We (yes, rickjump, "we") have been told about all dirty details of this part of our history. It never has been denied. But, guess what: For me (for most of "us"), it is history. So get over it and go on invading countries. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #129 September 27, 2008 Quote .... I may say it about the hildebeast, but she has really earned it. What's a "hildebeast"??? One can eat it? dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #130 September 27, 2008 QuoteChristel Sabine has a far different opinion than any of the older germans I ever spoke to, her lack of knowledge of what the Nazi's were really like is a real shame. If she did know, the comparison of the Nazi's and anyone would never occur. Ok, I'll call it my own gossip: she knows, but won't admit it. So many were in denial for years after it happened. Now they want to put the guilt trip on us for finishing Japan with minimum civilian and military casualities. EDITED TO ADD: Sorry Sabine, I did not read your last post. My head stuck in the wrong place.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,112 #131 September 27, 2008 QuoteQuoteChristel Sabine has a far different opinion than any of the older germans I ever spoke to, her lack of knowledge of what the Nazi's were really like is a real shame. If she did know, the comparison of the Nazi's and anyone would never occur. Ok, I'll call it my own gossip: she knows, but won't admit it. So many were in denial for years after it happened. Now they want to put the guilt trip on us for finishing Japan with minimum civilian and military casualities. . You seem to believe there were only two options: invade Japan, or nuke two cities. I'm a great believer in the use of the nukes to end the war, but the targeting decisions were made for reasons other than achieving a minimum of casualties, and IMO were unethical.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #132 September 27, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteChristel Sabine has a far different opinion than any of the older germans I ever spoke to, her lack of knowledge of what the Nazi's were really like is a real shame. If she did know, the comparison of the Nazi's and anyone would never occur. Ok, I'll call it my own gossip: she knows, but won't admit it. So many were in denial for years after it happened. Now they want to put the guilt trip on us for finishing Japan with minimum civilian and military casualities. . You seem to believe there were only two options: invade Japan, or nuke two cities. I'm a great believer in the use of the nukes to end the war, but the targeting decisions were made for reasons other than achieving a minimum of casualties, and IMO were unethical. I doubt if the fanatics running the country would have changed course if the bombs were dropped as a warning in a less populated area. Had they been dropped in southern Japan where a combined civilian-military force (including school boys and old men with spears) awaited the coming invasion there would have been mass casualities, and nobody to rebuild the country. Bad idea. I don't know. All I know it that it was a fast way to end the war. Unethical to you, but not for me.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #133 September 27, 2008 "773 Avo Lancasters bombed Dresden. During the next 2 days, the USAF sent 527 heavy bombers to follow up the RAF attack". From what I have read, the incendiary bombing of Dresden AND Tokyo have been over shadowed by the two nukes dropped on Japan. Although Dresden and Tokyo sustained more casualities, people (and a lot of physics professors) prefer to bring up the use of the atomic bombs on Japan. I think it's the "more bang for the buck" thing ie. physics. It's really about terror weapons being used to win wars. It's dirty, but necessary unless you you don't care which side wins.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,112 #134 September 27, 2008 Quote"773 Avo Lancasters bombed Dresden. During the next 2 days, the USAF sent 527 heavy bombers to follow up the RAF attack". From what I have read, the incendiary bombing of Dresden AND Tokyo have been over shadowed by the two nukes dropped on Japan. Although Dresden and Tokyo sustained more casualities, people (and a lot of physics professors) prefer to bring up the use of the atomic bombs on Japan. I think it's the "more bang for the buck" thing ie. physics. It's really about terror weapons being used to win wars. It's dirty, but necessary unless you you don't care which side wins. As far as I know Dresden had minimal tactical or strategic value and the bombing was indeed for pure terror effect (and revenge for Coventry in 1940). I'm not sure there's any evidence at all that terror bombing of civilians affects dictators very much. Even in Britain, which was not a totalitarian dictatorship, the 1940 London Blitz just reinforced the nation's will to fight on.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #135 September 28, 2008 QuoteQuote"773 Avo Lancasters bombed Dresden. During the next 2 days, the USAF sent 527 heavy bombers to follow up the RAF attack". From what I have read, the incendiary bombing of Dresden AND Tokyo have been over shadowed by the two nukes dropped on Japan. Although Dresden and Tokyo sustained more casualities, people (and a lot of physics professors) prefer to bring up the use of the atomic bombs on Japan. I think it's the "more bang for the buck" thing ie. physics. It's really about terror weapons being used to win wars. It's dirty, but necessary unless you you don't care which side wins. As far as I know Dresden had minimal tactical or strategic value and the bombing was indeed for pure terror effect (and revenge for Coventry in 1940). I'm not sure there's any evidence at all that terror bombing of civilians affects dictators very much. Even in Britain, which was not a totalitarian dictatorship, the 1940 London Blitz just reinforced the nation's will to fight on. . As for dictators, two nukes brought the end of the war with Japan.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #136 September 28, 2008 QuoteI'm a great believer in the use of the nukes to end the war, but the targeting decisions were made for reasons other than achieving a minimum of casualties, and IMO were unethical. A people who psychotically follow an imperialist emperor, a nation that engaged in "death marches" and sneak attacks, is not entitled to an "ethical" response to its atrocities. Frankly, I feel that when a country attempts, by violence, to take over the world, when its would-be victims defeat it, it would not be unfair for those would-be victims to utterly annihilate the attacker and make the world forget it ever existed. In other words, if you are the victim of an unprovoked and deadly attack, it is completely fair that if you triumph in the war, you take over the invading country, make it yours, and kill the last remaining inhabitant. I know that we don't typically do that sort of thing: but I feel it would be justified.Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #137 September 28, 2008 Quote Much like the U.S. military's response to aggression around the world -- oddly enough, twice by Germany. Once. WWI was not started by Germany. Frankly, I say all the major players in Europe are to blame for that mess. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #138 September 28, 2008 Quote .... -- oddly enough, twice by Germany. You need to work a bit on your history cognition, Jeffrey - twice is too much of an honor dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #139 September 28, 2008 Quote Quote Much like the U.S. military's response to aggression around the world -- oddly enough, twice by Germany. Once. WWI was not started by Germany. Frankly, I say all the major players in Europe are to blame for that mess. What can I say? Europe's a fucked up place. (For that matter, so is Asia.) Part of what makes these places so fucked up is that despite the fact that they're so fucked up and always have been, they look to criticize the U.S. at every possible turn. Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #140 September 28, 2008 Quote Quote .... -- oddly enough, twice by Germany. You need to work a bit on your history cognition, Jeffrey - twice is too much of an honor Yeah, well, your continent and your country have been fucked up for so long, have engaged in evil, anti-humane acts for so long, I'm to be excused if my sense of the history gets a little befuddled now and then.Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #141 September 28, 2008 Quote What can I say? Europe's a fucked up place. (For that matter, so is Asia.) So I take it you've traveled extensively in both continents then, eh? Given that, what makes you come to such a conclusion? Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #142 September 28, 2008 Quote Quote What can I say? Europe's a fucked up place. (For that matter, so is Asia.) So I take it you've traveled extensively in both continents then, eh? Given that, what makes you come to such a conclusion? No, I have not. One need only look at the history of Europe to see that it has NEVER been a peaceful place. Always giving rise to psychotic despots, and social and military unrest. I don't think one has to have "traveled extensively" to see what Europe has been about for centuries. That's not to say that some people don't enjoy pleasant lives in Europe -- or Asia or North America or South America, for that matter. But the political reality is that the place has historically torn itself the fuck apart over and over and over again. But I guess since I haven't lived there or traveled extensively, my view of it isn't worth shit -- just like historians' views of medieval Europe aren't worth shit because they don't have time machines. Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #143 September 28, 2008 Quote .... No, I have not. One need only look at the history of Europe to see that it has NEVER been a peaceful place. Always giving rise to psychotic despots, and social and military unrest. Is that the reason why your ancestors left Middle Europe? Denying your roots - they (your forefathers) will rotate in their tombs dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #144 September 28, 2008 The dead do nothing but decompose. I have ancestry from Poland and Russia, to the best of my knowledge. I'll bet I would enjoy visiting both places at some point, but that doesn't mean I feel I really have ties to there. My ties are to Long Island, NY, and even that is nothing like I remember it being before I moved away. Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
