Loss of freedoms under the pretense of?

[sfc 1]

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Nationalization is exactly what this seems to be - and I don't fucking like it.

Can't agree more, there is no way I want my future tax dollars committed to this. I think that we can agree to this even though we are on opposite sides of the house (and when are you coming back to the bay area, did you know marco bough the DZ?)

Why the hell should we bail out wall street, they gambled and lost, it is welfare for the (formerly) rich.
My partisan view also tells me that this is bailing out Bush's buddies, the rich guys that line the GOP coffers, they have fucked us with high gas prices and now they want to rape the treasury. NO NO NO...

GOP

Sad you are blinding yourself to the true cause..........

Sad you are so partisan that you are in denial.

Ya, like the facts back this shit up

It's hypocrisy that while oil prices are at record highs all the oil politicians cry that we have to leave the oil companies alone, but when one of their buddies are in trouble they want to bail them out using our money, they are either screwing us with high prices or screwing us by wanting to be paid out. They want their cake and want to eat it and the current GOP administration is giving it to them :(

Where are we supposed to get the money to pay for the national debt, we have to have low taxes (the carrot to fool people into voting for them), low regulation of profitable companies (and fools believe you have to let the rich do this so they can spread the wealth) and big tax payout when they fuck up (or it would be really bad for main street).

And to top it all they manage to spin it so schmucks [personal reference deleted] support them blindly.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Nationalization is exactly what this seems to be - and I don't fucking like it.

Can't agree more, there is no way I want my future tax dollars committed to this. I think that we can agree to this even though we are on opposite sides of the house (and when are you coming back to the bay area, did you know marco bough the DZ?)

Why the hell should we bail out wall street, they gambled and lost, it is welfare for the (formerly) rich.
My partisan view also tells me that this is bailing out Bush's buddies, the rich guys that line the GOP coffers, they have fucked us with high gas prices and now they want to rape the treasury. NO NO NO...

GOP


The insanely wealthy that are expecting a bailout from the American taxpayers are from all political affiliations.

Surprise Surprise Surprise.[/gomer pyle voice]

It is not just Bush's buddies, take off the blinders.

I am vehemently against the bailout.

[rushmc 23]

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Nationalization is exactly what this seems to be - and I don't fucking like it.

Can't agree more, there is no way I want my future tax dollars committed to this. I think that we can agree to this even though we are on opposite sides of the house (and when are you coming back to the bay area, did you know marco bough the DZ?)

Why the hell should we bail out wall street, they gambled and lost, it is welfare for the (formerly) rich.
My partisan view also tells me that this is bailing out Bush's buddies, the rich guys that line the GOP coffers, they have fucked us with high gas prices and now they want to rape the treasury. NO NO NO...

GOP


The insanely wealthy that are expecting a bailout from the American taxpayers are from all political affiliations.

Surprise Surprise Surprise.[/gomer pyle voice]

It is not just Bush's buddies, take off the blinders.

I am vehemently against the bailout.

As am I but, more for the reasons I spell out in my reply to billvon.

Fucking people need to open their eyes. I almost have to wonder if this was not caused on purpose just for the oprotunity to INCREASE the kind of regulation and oversite that caused it in the first place

Did people get rich? YES, but this did BECAUSE of (and in bed with) the politions that were running and pushing it.

Dodd, Schumer, Obama, Clinton and Carter are in the deepest as of now. I am sure many R's are there too but these guys float to the top.

And is it all about power, votes and mainly money. And the trail is dam easy to follow if

PEOPLE WOULD LOOK PAST PARTY AND OPEN THEIR EYES!!!!!! (rant not aime at you warped)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lucky... 0]

Follow me Rush, I'll paraphrase:

LIVENDIVE: CEO's salaries are controlled by shareholders, the public willbe the new shareholders, why can't we control CEO's compensation?


RUSH: You want to move control to the government and lose freedom, you are not being consistent.


LUCKY: You have no problem allowing Regan/Bush to control labor, but you do for the gov to control CEO's pay in the same sort of emergency - 1 way street.

......I'm hoping that clears it up, I'm sure you'll still act confused, even tho you're not.

[rushmc 23]

Let me add to this,
As Glen Beck said a short time ago, anybody, and I mean ANYBODY, who has fingerprints on any of this. R's, Dems Independants, gov employees or private sector need to down with this ship.

This makes Enron look like a grade school prank. I listed names of those in at starting points. I in know way think they are along in this.

My biggest point is, this is not a free market lack of regulation problem. It is just the oposite!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,120]

>Dodd, Schumer, Obama, Clinton and Carter are in the deepest . . .

>PEOPLE WOULD LOOK PAST PARTY AND OPEN THEIR EYES!!!!!!

Classic. "It's the Dems fault. Why won't people look past party and open their eyes?"

[Lucky... 0]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If they gave them back because of media attention I have no problem with that.


They should never have taken them in light that the airlines were in bad shape, workers were out of jobs and the gov was offloading tons of free cash to keep them afloat. Waiting till public scrutiny is like appologizing after you're caught shoplifting.

[rushmc 23]

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Follow me Rush, I'll paraphrase:

LIVENDIVE: CEO's salaries are controlled by shareholders, the public willbe the new shareholders, why can't we control CEO's compensation?


RUSH: You want to move control to the government and lose freedom, you are not being consistent.


LUCKY: You have no problem allowing Regan/Bush to control labor, but you do for the gov to control CEO's pay in the same sort of emergency - 1 way street.

......I'm hoping that clears it up, I'm sure you'll still act confused, even tho you're not.

I am not confused and I dont agree with some of this. The labor union post is not even related here......

I dont think if the gov bails out the institutions they (the gov) should have any control, they should just keep and eye on the reporting of the balance sheet.

The gov can not control. It can, as it proves over and over, only corupt.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If they gave them back because of media attention I have no problem with that.


They should never have taken them in light that the airlines were in bad shape, workers were out of jobs and the gov was offloading tons of free cash to keep them afloat. Waiting till public scrutiny is like appologizing after you're caught shoplifting.

Partly, if they broke a law then they should go to jail, if they broke the share holders trust, then the free market and market forces should deal with them.

I agree they were scum, I dont agree the gov should get involved if no law is broken

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lucky... 0]

What facts, the ones like Bush and his friends have become rich under his kingdom? I'm thinking so, which is why you get so angry.

[rushmc 23]

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>Dodd, Schumer, Obama, Clinton and Carter are in the deepest . . .

>PEOPLE WOULD LOOK PAST PARTY AND OPEN THEIR EYES!!!!!!

Classic. "It's the Dems fault. Why won't people look past party and open their eyes?"

NO, that is why I added the other post.

They were at the start of things. I do not think they are totally to blame but they do have their parts. Dodd is guilty of just keeping it going. After all, how much money did he get.

I am SURE the other party has its dirtly players too. There is now way that the Dems could keep something of this scale going without in bed help from the other side. I am just waiting to see who is the biggest player in this.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lucky... 0]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It's hypocrisy that while oil prices are at record highs all the oil politicians cry that we have to leave the oil companies alone, but when one of their buddies are in trouble they want to bail them out using our money, they are either screwing us with high prices or screwing us by wanting to be paid out. They want their cake and want to eat it and the current GOP administration is giving it to them :(

Where are we supposed to get the money to pay for the national debt, we have to have low taxes (the carrot to fool people into voting for them), low regulation of profitable companies (and fools believe you have to let the rich do this so they can spread the wealth) and big tax payout when they fuck up (or it would be really bad for main street).

And to top it all they manage to spin it so schmucks [personal reference deleted] support them blindly.



The Republican theme is a pyramid scheme and like all pyramid schemes, the last in loses, teh first in takes the prize. Mayeb in terms of a revolt we'll consider all current currency void and start over

[Lucky... 0]

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Nationalization is exactly what this seems to be - and I don't fucking like it.

Can't agree more, there is no way I want my future tax dollars committed to this. I think that we can agree to this even though we are on opposite sides of the house (and when are you coming back to the bay area, did you know marco bough the DZ?)

Why the hell should we bail out wall street, they gambled and lost, it is welfare for the (formerly) rich.
My partisan view also tells me that this is bailing out Bush's buddies, the rich guys that line the GOP coffers, they have fucked us with high gas prices and now they want to rape the treasury. NO NO NO...

GOP


The insanely wealthy that are expecting a bailout from the American taxpayers are from all political affiliations.

Surprise Surprise Surprise.[/gomer pyle voice]

It is not just Bush's buddies, take off the blinders.

I am vehemently against the bailout.

I am against it too, but who else benefits? It's got to be 90% Bush buddies/Republicans.

[rushmc 23]

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What facts, the ones like Bush and his friends have become rich under his kingdom? I'm thinking so, which is why you get so angry.

the only reason I would think of getting angry is when people try and put words in other peoples mouths. And also make shit generalization type bull shit comments like this that have no backing are are just a stupid emotional response to loosing the white house two times in a row.

The nuttiness will be bigger if/when Obama looses cause he cant loose, the election of Obama can only be stolen

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Nationalization is exactly what this seems to be - and I don't fucking like it.

Can't agree more, there is no way I want my future tax dollars committed to this. I think that we can agree to this even though we are on opposite sides of the house (and when are you coming back to the bay area, did you know marco bough the DZ?)

Why the hell should we bail out wall street, they gambled and lost, it is welfare for the (formerly) rich.
My partisan view also tells me that this is bailing out Bush's buddies, the rich guys that line the GOP coffers, they have fucked us with high gas prices and now they want to rape the treasury. NO NO NO...

GOP


The insanely wealthy that are expecting a bailout from the American taxpayers are from all political affiliations.

Surprise Surprise Surprise.[/gomer pyle voice]

It is not just Bush's buddies, take off the blinders.

I am vehemently against the bailout.

I am against it too, but who else benefits? It's got to be 90% Bush buddies/Republicans.

If you can prove this or show even a shred of evidence I will listen. Otherwise you have nothing.

And I am being call .......

oh forget it......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lucky... 0]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Fucking people need to open their eyes. I almost have to wonder if this was not caused on purpose just for the oprotunity to INCREASE the kind of regulation and oversite that caused it in the first place.


And you laugh at 911 theorists? It was caused randomly by opportunists, but would not have been possible without the lowering of the interest rate, that was the catylist.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dodd, Schumer, Obama, Clinton and Carter are in the deepest as of now. I am sure many R's are there too but these guys float to the top.


Love to read independent evidence.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And is it all about power, votes and mainly money. And the trail is dam easy to follow if

PEOPLE WOULD LOOK PAST PARTY AND OPEN THEIR EYES!!!!!!


Show us the way to trail.

[Lucky... 0]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>My biggest point is, this is not a free market lack of regulation problem. It is just the oposite.


Yea, that's like if there are 2girl per week getting raped in Central Park, we move all cops away from there and announce it to teh public there will be no police within 2 miles. BRILLIANT

[billvon 3,120]

> I am just waiting to see who is the biggest player in this.

There's not much question that Phil Gramm played the biggest single part in allowing this to happen. He spearheaded the legislation that:

1) allowed companies to mix investment, commercial banking, and insurance services with none of the regulations that applied to ordinary banking. He was paid over a million dollars by those companies for that one. (Gramm-Leach-Bliley act.)

2) deregulated credit default swaps. These instruments are the primary reason we need to bail out AIG. (Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000)

[rushmc 23]

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Fucking people need to open their eyes. I almost have to wonder if this was not caused on purpose just for the oprotunity to INCREASE the kind of regulation and oversite that caused it in the first place.


And you laugh at 911 theorists? It was caused randomly by opportunists, but would not have been possible without the lowering of the interest rate, that was the catylist.If you think this is random then you really do have your eyes closed


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dodd, Schumer, Obama, Clinton and Carter are in the deepest as of now. I am sure many R's are there too but these guys float to the top.


Love to read independent evidence.Who got the most money from Fannie and Freddie? Might be a good place for you to start you enlightenment


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And is it all about power, votes and mainly money. And the trail is dam easy to follow if

PEOPLE WOULD LOOK PAST PARTY AND OPEN THEIR EYES!!!!!!


Show us the way to trail.

In other words agree with you

Your funny, blinded but funny

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lucky... 0]

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Follow me Rush, I'll paraphrase:

LIVENDIVE: CEO's salaries are controlled by shareholders, the public willbe the new shareholders, why can't we control CEO's compensation?


RUSH: You want to move control to the government and lose freedom, you are not being consistent.


LUCKY: You have no problem allowing Regan/Bush to control labor, but you do for the gov to control CEO's pay in the same sort of emergency - 1 way street.

......I'm hoping that clears it up, I'm sure you'll still act confused, even tho you're not.

I am not confused and I dont agree with some of this. The labor union post is not even related here......

I dont think if the gov bails out the institutions they (the gov) should have any control, they should just keep and eye on the reporting of the balance sheet.

The gov can not control. It can, as it proves over and over, only corupt.

It has to do with controls at opposite ends. It very much has a common denominator.

[rushmc 23]

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> I am just waiting to see who is the biggest player in this.

There's not much question that Phil Gramm played the biggest single part in allowing this to happen. He spearheaded the legislation that:

1) allowed companies to mix investment, commercial banking, and insurance services with none of the regulations that applied to ordinary banking. He was paid over a million dollars by those companies for that one. (Gramm-Leach-Bliley act.)

2) deregulated credit default swaps. These instruments are the primary reason we need to bail out AIG. (Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000)

And they are a big part of it. As is Greenspan

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lucky... 0]

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If they gave them back because of media attention I have no problem with that.


They should never have taken them in light that the airlines were in bad shape, workers were out of jobs and the gov was offloading tons of free cash to keep them afloat. Waiting till public scrutiny is like appologizing after you're caught shoplifting.

Partly, if they broke a law then they should go to jail, if they broke the share holders trust, then the free market and market forces should deal with them.

I agree they were scum, I dont agree the gov should get involved if no law is broken

This is not about the law, this is about corprate ethics, the oxymoron. Point is, these CEO's would snake what they can until the light is on them.

[Lucky... 0]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I am SURE the other party has its dirtly players too. There is now way that the Dems could keep something of this scale going without in bed help from the other side. I am just waiting to see who is the biggest player in this.


Pure conjecture. You hate the dems, we know that. Now establish via evidence that some Dems profited and conspired with this mess and then establish what percentage of these were dems if at all.

[Lucky... 0]

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What facts, the ones like Bush and his friends have become rich under his kingdom? I'm thinking so, which is why you get so angry.

the only reason I would think of getting angry is when people try and put words in other peoples mouths. And also make shit generalization type bull shit comments like this that have no backing are are just a stupid emotional response to loosing the white house two times in a row.

The nuttiness will be bigger if/when Obama looses cause he cant loose, the election of Obama can only be stolen

What words in who's mouth?

Generalizations? Like the ones where you insist there must be a bunch of dems in this mess that conspirred along with the R's?

Again, why so angry? Bad timing? This will certainly wake up any fence-riders to see the McSame disaster comming.

[Lucky... 0]

Rush..... you blowin a fuse?