We want to pray

[livendive 8]

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Exactly. If they want Muslim traditions honored they can return to their Muslim countries.

Hey look, I'm embarassed by one of my countrymen. Wait, nevermind. My country was founded, in part, on the principle that people should be free to practice the religion of their choosing without discrimination. Perhaps you should return to whatever xenophobic country you came from.

Blues,
Dave

Get over your enlightened self. I do not have a thing against Muslims. But their religion does not entitle them to special rights. No employer should have to go out of their way to accomadate someones religious beliefs. That is what this thread is about. They are free to pray at home and in their Mosques all they want.

You said, "If they want their Muslim traditions honored, they should return to their Muslim countries." What makes you think they're not from this country? Are you one of those people who doesn't get a couple days off, with pay, for Christmas? Maybe if you want your Christmas traditions honored, you should return to your Christian country. That'd make about as much sense as what you said. The people are simply asking that their break be moved to sunset during Ramadan. Their wish is at least as compelling as other people's wishes for the Sabbath and/or Christmas off, perhaps moreso because they're not asking for more breaks, just a different break.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[billvon 3,111]

>But their religion does not entitle them to special rights.

Do you work Sundays and Christmas?

[shropshire 0]

yeah and stop the smokers going out for a fag break too!!

I see absolutely nothing wrong with them going on a pray break. To not allow them is discriminatory. Stop seeing problems where there aren't any.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[normiss 892]

We're talking about a month long observance, does that change our views of it?

[livendive 8]

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We're talking about a month long observance, does that change our views of it?

Assuming a 22 day work month, and a 15 minute break, that's a 5.5 hour break for prayer...substantially less than we give for Christmas. And if it's a re-scheduled break rather than an extra break, it's even less of an impact.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Skyrad 0]

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OMAHA, Neb. (AP) - Five-hundred Muslim workers walked off the job Monday at a Grand Island meatpacking plant after they say they were denied time to pray during the Muslim observance of Ramadan.


A group of women at Grand Island's JBS Swift & Co. plant said at a news conference they were kicked by a supervisor when they attempted to pray.

Hawo Mohammed said she tried to pray quickly in the bathroom until a male supervisor followed her in and told her she was taking too long.

More than 100 workers at a Greeley Swift plant were fired last week because the company said they walked away from work before their shifts ended.

The workers blamed the company's refusal to allow their breaks to coincide with sunset so they could pray.

Swift, which was purchased by Brazil's JBS SA in March, has had problems with Muslim workers at the Grand Island plant in the past. Dozens of workers from Somalia quit their jobs last year because they said they weren't allowed to pray at sunset. They eventually returned to work.

So they want special treatment to pray? Do they go to work to work or to pray? Let them walk. They can replace them.

Plenty of people take a ciggy break several times a day so why shouldn't they have time to pray?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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yeah and stop the smokers going out for a fag break too!!

I see absolutely nothing wrong with them going on a pray break. To not allow them is discriminatory. Stop seeing problems where there aren't any.

Well around here fag breaks are generally not allowed except during scheduled breaks.
I am a bit perplexed as to why the company would not, as a matter of course, allow people to schedule their breaks to coincide with their personal preferences. That said if a large enough group wanted exactly the same time off for their prayer break so that the capital assets would have to be idled I could see the company saying no. An extreme example would be all the air traffic controllers at a particular TRACON demanding a break at sunset; I wouldn't be in favour of that, especially if I was on an inbound flight.
A couple of years ago I had a Christian employee who always wanted time to go to mass on Sunday mornings. The only logical thing to do was to give it to her when I could manage without her, and refuse it when it interfered with the operation. Occasionally I was inconvenienced because she was the only one who could fly the big plane, but generally the payoff of having a happier employee more than compensated.

[airdvr 210]

According to this they pray 5 times a day! If I own a factory I'm not shutting down my production line 5 times each day so someone can kneel facing Meccah. http://www.islam-usa.com/pray1.html

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Skyrad 0]

I used to work with a Iranian woman who used to just disappear into nowhere when she was supposed to be covering theatres (OR) and Ward work, she really pissed everyone off (including me) turned out she was slipping off to pray. If she'd just said what she was doing and made up her time none of us would have minded. I think its how you go about things. If these guys went to management and worked out a accomodation I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to pray at work. I've worked in many places that have prayer rooms for people at work (Jews, Christians and Muslims) good idea I think. Look after you physical health why not your spiritual health, not to mention the calming and positive effect of quiet contemplative time taken regularly on ones mental health.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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According to this they pray 5 times a day! If I own a factory I'm not shutting down my production line 5 times each day so someone can kneel facing Meccah. http://www.islam-usa.com/pray1.html

But not five times a day at work. prayer times are fixed and include silly O'clock in the morning while most people are still fast asleep.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[billvon 3,111]

>According to this they pray 5 times a day!

Some people smoke 5 times a day. And believe it or not, some of them can actually find work! Hard to believe, I know.

>If I own a factory I'm not shutting down my production line 5 times each day
>so someone can kneel facing Meccah.

Hopefully you won't shut down the factory on Sunday, either, just so Christians can worship.

[Andy9o8 2]

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the smokers going out for a fag break

Oh.

[shropshire 0]

Nice one - flexability is the key.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[shropshire 0]

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We're talking about a month long observance, does that change our views of it?

Nope, not one jot.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[shropshire 0]

Better stop all of the lazy workers taking coffee and meal breaks too - what do they think that we're running here?

And heven help anyone who wants to take a dump in company time

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[diverborg 0]

Is there a law on the books stating that smokers are required to get cigarrete breaks aside from their normal breaks, or is it just something the employers do to be considerate.

As with the holiday issues, its not a law either that employers grant any holidays if they don't want to. A long time ago, I waited tables, and was required to work every friggin holiday including Christmas. I didn't have to stay there. If the employers want to close for the holidays to keep their employees happy thats their choice, but I don't know of any laws requiring that. I was told upon hiring that I was required to work these days and I agreed.

I think its wise of employers to accomodate people's religious needs, but if its a law that they have to then why can't I go sue my former employer for making me work sundays or Christmas. I'm a little confused on this one. The employer didn't want them stopping to pray 5 times a day, so the employees walked out and then were fired. I don't see the problem here. Unless some of the claims of "abuse" are shown true. OR... if anybody else is given a 5 cigarette breaks aside their normal breaks, but these guys aren't allowed to pray, then maybe they might have a case. Honestly I've never worked an hourly paying job where anybody was allowed to take cigarette breaks aside normal breaks.

[AWL71 0]

I work on Sunday if I have work to do. I don't work on Christmas since it is a Federal Holiday. America is predominately a Christian Country so this is why it is a federal holiday. If Muslim's want "fringe" benefits then they should live in a predominately Muslim country. It is a simple case of "Majority Rule."

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[billvon 3,111]

>Is there a law on the books stating that smokers are required to get cigarrete ]
>breaks aside from their normal breaks, or is it just something the employers do
>to be considerate.

At least in California, they are required to provide breaks (two ten minute breaks, one 30 minute lunch break) during the day - but there's nothing about smoking in the law. So a company that provides more than that is doing it to be considerate (or more accurately to attract cheaper labor.)

>its not a law either that employers grant any holidays if they don't want to.

Agreed, at least for non-governmental employers.

An employer can tell people "no smoking or prayer breaks" and be within his rights. Whether or not this is a good idea, of course, is questionable, and is the subject of this thread.

[shropshire 0]

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I work on Sunday if I have work to do. I don't work on Christmas since it is a Federal Holiday. America is predominately a Christian Country so this is why it is a federal holiday. If Muslim's want "fringe" benefits then they should live in a predominately Muslim country. It is a simple case of "Majority Rule."

Wasn't America started to free the folks from religious intolerance? Or is religious freedom only valid for Christians? - Nice work in trying to turn back time.

How do you know how many Chritians there are in the States (as opposed to non-religious - none practicing folks).

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[billvon 3,111]

>America is predominately a Christian Country so this is why it is a
>federal holiday. If Muslim's want "fringe" benefits then they should live in
>a predominately Muslim country.

Actually, that's the cool thing about living in the US. There IS no federal religion, and you are free to worship as you see fit (and employers are, within limits, willing to decide what sort of worship is OK on company time.) And if you don't like THAT, England would be an excellent place to set up a company. Mandated Christianity and all.

[AWL71 0]

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>America is predominately a Christian Country so this is why it is a
>federal holiday. If Muslim's want "fringe" benefits then they should live in
>a predominately Muslim country.

Actually, that's the cool thing about living in the US. There IS no federal religion, and you are free to worship as you see fit (and employers are, within limits, willing to decide what sort of worship is OK on company time.) And if you don't like THAT, England would be an excellent place to set up a company. Mandated Christianity and all.

Did you read my previous post? I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem when employers are required to give special treatment to ANY religion.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[birdlike 0]

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I have no idea.
That would be a problem, as the prayers must be done at certain times. I guess you could be excused from class for few minuets, and if you miss schoolwork that is your decisions not the schools fault.

I guess that’s why I believe when you go to Rome do as the Romans, off course I believe that when we go to other countries we should do the same, and not attempted to change them.

You mean, like, if I went to a place where they DO pray at a certain time, it would be wrong if I went on with doing what I was doing and didn't pray or pause while the rest prayed?

So maybe folks who come to this country should not be trying to force a large majority of non-muslims to accept the muslim way of doing things dictating how the rest of us do them?

Lately, it seems like muslims expect and demand that everyone drop their way of doing things to cater to the muslim way. They remind me of how in some families, plans get changed drastically because if everyone doesn't do as the spoiled child demands (leave the movie when he gets bored, leave the restaurant when he's full and bored, leave the family gathering when he gets cranky), he's going to throw a tantrum and everyone lives in fear of having to deal with that tantrum.

Did I compare muslims to a spoiled child just now? Yeah, I guess I did. A dangerous spoiled child, like that kid Anthony in that creepy Twilight Zone episode.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

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>But their religion does not entitle them to special rights.

Do you work Sundays and Christmas?

When the country was founded, pretty much everyone held that as a standard, expected way to run things. It wasn't because some tiny but very vocal (and sometimes very violent) minority dictated it to the rest of everyone else.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[livendive 8]

Why the hell do you muslim bashers seem to think every muslim immigrated to the US. You do realize some are born here and others convert to the religion here, right?

Blues,
Dave

P.S. Paging MarkHarju - Muslim bashing is occurring without you. Please insert insane death cult comment here.

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[billvon 3,111]

>pretty much everyone held that as a standard, expected way to run things.

Yep. Akin to slavery and women as property. Fortunately we were smart enough to change those things - even though the majority resisted the change for quite some time.

>It wasn't because some tiny but very vocal (and sometimes very violent)
>minority dictated it to the rest of everyone else.

Actually, this country was settled by a tiny but very vocal (and sometimes very violent) religious minority that left England so they wouldn't have to endure the tyranny of the masses. Even wrote it right into the Constitution later!