Bush's Economy - really bad?

[alw 0]

Democrats are of saying how poorly stocks have performed under George W. Bush, here's a sobering fact: Stocks averaged 14.1% return in those Bush years when Republicans controlled Congress -- and when Democrats got in there and mucked things up, the average has been a loss of 8.9%. That's not even including 2008 year-to-date, which doesn't look so pretty.

---------------------------------------------
Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

Democrats are of saying how poorly stocks have performed under George W. Bush, here's a sobering fact: Stocks averaged 14.1% return in those Bush years when Republicans controlled Congress -- and when Democrats got in there and mucked things up, the average has been a loss of 8.9%. That's not even including 2008 year-to-date, which doesn't look so pretty.

Your government is currently bailing out private and public/private banking entities in order to keep the world economy from completely collapsing.
Yea, it's really bad.

[kallend 2,150]

Quote

Democrats are of saying how poorly stocks have performed under George W. Bush, here's a sobering fact: Stocks averaged 14.1% return in those Bush years when Republicans controlled Congress -- and when Democrats got in there and mucked things up, the average has been a loss of 8.9%. That's not even including 2008 year-to-date, which doesn't look so pretty.

Lame.

The mountain of DEBT was carefully constructed under the Republicans. The reason the economy is tanking now is on account of the GOP manufactured deficits and debt, which have come home to roost (nice mixed metaphor, eh?)

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SimonBones 1]

Have to say, I've read this and that about how bad this is or how bad that is in newspapers etc, but in all reality, the only thing that I've felt different over the years is gas and jump prices as a result.

I still go out to restaurants and buy small personal luxuries like, beer, CDs/DVDs, etc. In my day to day life, I haven't noticed a difference. Makes me wonder how much of it all is just media hype.

I know people selling houses are heaving a hard time or are losing their homes, they did that to themselves. So where does this "terrible economy" affect me?

108 way head down world record!!!
http://www.simonbones.com
Hit me up on Facebook

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Democrats are of saying how poorly stocks have performed under George W. Bush, here's a sobering fact: Stocks averaged 14.1% return in those Bush years when Republicans controlled Congress -- and when Democrats got in there and mucked things up, the average has been a loss of 8.9%. That's not even including 2008 year-to-date, which doesn't look so pretty.

Tie-in how the Dem's actions led to that, or as the Bush recession part II was ironically timed so it worked that way. As you know, ice cream consumption causes people to commit rape, due to their rate of consumption/increase simultaneously.


A more comprehensive review would require you to look over that last several preseidents, congress sessions and their fiscal ideology. As we do that we can see that when a president is Republican that the economy sinks and the debt climbs.

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Have to say, I've read this and that about how bad this is or how bad that is in newspapers etc, but in all reality, the only thing that I've felt different over the years is gas and jump prices as a result.

I still go out to restaurants and buy small personal luxuries like, beer, CDs/DVDs, etc. In my day to day life, I haven't noticed a difference. Makes me wonder how much of it all is just media hype.

I know people selling houses are heaving a hard time or are losing their homes, they did that to themselves. So where does this "terrible economy" affect me?

I think our job economy is better than advertised, but that is likely due to the dead dollar and grewat exchange rate.

[lawrocket 3]

What do you mean Dem Congress mucked it up? They haven't done anything.

This bubble was gonna burst.

p.s. If anything is to blame it is Gramm-Leach-Bliley. A worthy experiment.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[SimonBones 1]

Whatever's been going on with the dollar, it really looks like it's been coming back over the last few months.

http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_DX

108 way head down world record!!!
http://www.simonbones.com
Hit me up on Facebook

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

What do you mean Dem Congress mucked it up? They haven't done anything.

This bubble was gonna burst.

p.s. If anything is to blame it is Gramm-Leach-Bliley. A worthy experiment.

The Desm have tried to keep Bush in check, they shoved 4 of his vetoes back up his ass, not bad for what 10 that went before the Dem congress? They are really tied up, they only have a reasonable majority in the House and the slimest in the Senate, so let teh Dems sweep the board as teh Reps have and then say they did nothing.


The bubble that bust was as a result of the low interest rates, leading to high prinicpal values, leading to irresponsible lending, etc............ The low interest rates are the initial cause.

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Whatever's been going on with the dollar, it really looks like it's been coming back over the last few months.

http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_DX

Hardly. I like to compare the USD to the Canadian Dollar. When Bush took office 1 USD = 1.55 CAND, it hit a low of 1 CAND = 1.10 USD for a bit, then went even for a long time, now it's 1 USD = 1.08 CAND as of today. Not a rebound as of yet, just a flux....maybe it will rebound, don;t think so tho.

[SimonBones 1]

Quote

maybe it will rebound, don;t think so tho.

So you think the dollar and economy will never rebound? The slowing growth of the economy is just a small speed bump in the long term. You're being so short sighted! We've got hundreds of thousands of people in this country who make it their full time work to watch the dollar and the economy. They spend their life analyzing every hourly up or down and how to fix it and grow it.

Historically our country and race of people have only become more advanced and of an improved quality of living. One can bitch about out poor but "our poor" are filthy rich compared to the poor of a third world country or of an American in the 1800's. When was the last time an American starved to death from poverty in this country? Those below the "poverty" line in this country still have televisions, microwaves, and cars.

As a nation, all we do is grow:

http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/

108 way head down world record!!!
http://www.simonbones.com
Hit me up on Facebook

[Lucky... 0]

>>>>>>>>>>>So you think the dollar and economy will never rebound? The slowing growth of the economy is just a small speed bump in the long term. You're being so short sighted!


Never is a long time, so I try not to use absolutes; I leave that for our Repub brothers.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>We've got hundreds of thousands of people in this country who make it their full time work to watch the dollar and the economy. They spend their life analyzing every hourly up or down and how to fix it and grow it.


The fed reserve basically, right? They've fucked that up pretty well, so watch it or not, they've failed.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>When was the last time an American starved to death from poverty in this country?


I bet if you or I worked with social svs we would see it a lot, that and heat stroke, hypothermia, etc...


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Those below the "poverty" line in this country still have televisions, microwaves, and cars.


Except the homeless.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>As a nation, all we do is grow:


Uh, the investors grow. How many poor/middle class play the stocks a lot vs how many upper class? That just supports class seperation.


As for the economic cycles, yea, that happenes. How about the debt, the killer that never subsides? That will be an issue before long.

[piper17 1]

Gee, that's funny. The Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae fiasco started under Clinton and, if you had been reading the Wall Street Journal during that time period, you would have read on the paper's editorial pages warnings of these two quasi-"private" agencies being out of control.

The heads of those agencies were Clinton appointees who were filling their own pockets and sticking the tax payers with huge bills that are now coming due.

Of course, the current administration did not take the necessary steps to fix the situation...but then again, Barney Frank prevented this from occurring.

As long as we are talking financial issues, we could look at Senator Chris Dodd (D. CT) and other Dems who used their positions on the Banking committee etc to get special loan deals at below market interest rates, no closing costs, etc. and are now under "investigation" but the Dems in Congress will undoubtedly protect their own. Gee, and didn't Obama get special "considerations" when he bought his Chicago properties and obtained below market interest rate mortgages?

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[bodypilot90 0]

Quote

Uh, the investors grow. How many poor/middle class play the stocks a lot vs how many upper class? That just supports class seperation.

every mechanic in our shop has money in stocks. As it falls I am buying more. Not a class thing at all. if you had a job maybe you could buy some too.
we have sec 8 housing across from the shop. Have not seen any dying w/o food. I did see a over 40" lcd tv being unloaded today, was it welfare or drug money ......

[nanook 1]

Agreed. I know very few people who don't own stocks or have some sort of retirement fund. I have been in some of those Social services offices (Not for myself, I have an irresponsible sister) and all I see are a bunch of fat people and fat kids. Definitely not starving Seriously, you have to work hard to be that unsuccessful as not to afford any of this.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

Regarding the Fed - it kinda shows how market forces overcome government planning. Sure, the Fed didn't prevent this. Recall all of the applause Greenspan got all those years he was being political (short term gains, problems when I retire). He was applauded for preventing a full scale recession when the tech market went kaput in the late 1990's.

If what you say is correct about the low interest rates causing this, then this downturn is a downstream result of the tech-bubble bursting. And if you are correct that such things are linked to the actions (or inactions) of the president's administration, then the tech bubble was Clinton's fault.

The lowering of the interest rates was to counter the detriment that you argue Clinton caused thereby preventing a full recession, instead of the two nonconsecutive quarters of economic contraction that were his exit from office.

And since the low interest rates designed to counter Clinton's weak economy caused this slumping economy, this slumping economy is Clinton's fault. Under your prior reasoning it is also Bush's fault because he is the sitting president.

I personally disagree with these lines of thought. I don't think that this slumping economy is Clinton's fault, but your argument does have some merit. We certainly can trace a causal path right back to his administration.

But I always welcome a new perspective. I certainly cannot disprove your theory, which blames Clinton for this economy. I think Gramm-Leach-Bliley (passed by GOP Congress and signed by Dem POTUS Clinton) is the most significant policy that led to this. But that's just me.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Quote

Uh, the investors grow. How many poor/middle class play the stocks a lot vs how many upper class? That just supports class seperation.

every mechanic in our shop has money in stocks. As it falls I am buying more. Not a class thing at all. if you had a job maybe you could buy some too.
we have sec 8 housing across from the shop. Have not seen any dying w/o food. I did see a over 40" lcd tv being unloaded today, was it welfare or drug money ......

>>>>>>>>>>>>Not a class thing at all. if you had a job maybe you could buy some too.


Why would you make an ignorant statement that I don't have job?


>>>>>>>>>>>>we have sec 8 housing across from the shop. Have not seen any dying w/o food.


Well then, that whole, 'economy is shit cause poor people are eating' is BS, right? The debt being 10T is meaningless. The highest inflation in 27 years, well just another #. $4 gas, no biggy.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I did see a over 40" lcd tv being unloaded today, was it welfare or drug money ......


It couldn't have been someone working for it and buying it.

[Lucky... 0]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Regarding the Fed - it kinda shows how market forces overcome government planning. Sure, the Fed didn't prevent this. Recall all of the applause Greenspan got all those years he was being political (short term gains, problems when I retire). He was applauded for preventing a full scale recession when the tech market went kaput in the late 1990's.


Yes, but he was chairman when the 1990 recesion kicked off, altho I think he did a godd job all in all.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.The lowering of the interest rates was to counter the detriment that you argue Clinton caused thereby preventing a full recession, instead of the two nonconsecutive quarters of economic contraction that were his exit from office.


Lowering of rates that I argue Clinton caused; more putting words in my mouth?


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If what you say is correct about the low interest rates causing this, then this downturn is a downstream result of the tech-bubble bursting.


No, the tech bubble burst in 2000, interest rates were lowered in what, 2004? Again, not what banks borrow at, but what we borrow at for long-term loans. Too much time between them, no correlation.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And since the low interest rates designed to counter Clinton's weak economy caused this slumping economy, this slumping economy is Clinton's fault.


Nice try. Gee, if I already knew you weren't a Republican, I would think you are one. Sarcasm, of course you are a Repub.

Clinton's weak economy? The DJI form 3500-9800? Weak? Unemp from 7% to 4%; weak? Foreclosures and BK's down; weak? Make an argument, counselor.


.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I personally disagree with these lines of thought. I don't think that this slumping economy is Clinton's fault, but your argument does have some merit. We certainly can trace a causal path right back to his administration.


I don't see how, and the bonus is that the debt was greatly lowereing from 250B/yr to 33b the last year he was in office while people proserred, a feat that either one or the other should occur.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>But I always welcome a new perspective. I certainly cannot disprove your theory, which blames Clinton for this economy.


Oh quit your posturing and typical dishonest Republican placing of words in my mouth.

Funny how the 3 stooges had/have the same fiscal policies, same result. Then Clinton had an opposite policy and received an opposite result.

[skydyvr 0]

Quote

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I did see a over 40" lcd tv being unloaded today, was it welfare or drug money ......


It couldn't have been someone working for it and buying it.

You both assume it was "bought" at all.

. . =(_8^(1)

[StreetScooby 5]

Actually, the FNMA/FHLMC situation is a direct result of the Democratically controlled Senate Finance Committee. Barney Frank and friends insisted that those agencies use their cash flow to actually buy Alt-A and subprime loans and put them on their books, in addition to their P&I guarantee. And, Mr. Frank and friends turned both agencies into political institutions. FNMA was levered 70-to-1, and kept telling everyone that things were just fine. The Morgan Stanley guys, at Paulson's urging, went in and concluded the FNMA guys didn't know accounting. Thus, the takeover.

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

Whatever's been going on with the dollar, it really looks like it's been coming back over the last few months.

Bernanke stopped printing money. That's why this is happening.

We are all engines of karma

[bodypilot90 0]

Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Uh, the investors grow. How many poor/middle class play the stocks a lot vs how many upper class? That just supports class seperation.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


every mechanic in our shop has money in stocks. As it falls I am buying more. Not a class thing at all

Nice dodge but please back up what you said

Quote

>>>>>>>>>>>>Not a class thing at all. if you had a job maybe you could buy some too.


Why would you make an ignorant statement that I don't have job?

Your profile says you are a ho. Do you have a full time job?

Quote

>>>>>>>>>>>>we have sec 8 housing across from the shop. Have not seen any dying w/o food.


Well then, that whole, 'economy is shit cause poor people are eating' is BS, right? The debt being 10T is meaningless. The highest inflation in 27 years, well just another #. $4 gas, no biggy.

Glad you said something about gas prices. Who will not drill here and now? Drill here and now fuel prices will drop. Most people I know are having trouble be cause they life in debt.

[TankBuster 0]

Quote

The mountain of DEBT was carefully constructed under the Republicans. The reason the economy is tanking now is on account of the GOP manufactured deficits and debt

Hmm, while I agree that deficit spending and debt are bad, the economic effects are that deficit spending stimulates the economy. Rising debt crowds out private investment and manifests itself in higher interest rates, which in the long term will depress the economy. That hasn't happened. The higher interest rates are the result of problems in the mortgage industry and the Fed's fear of inflation.

Buster says, lets drastically cut spending, put Nanny out of business, lower taxes, (pass the FairTax) and let Adam Smith decide the rest.

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[kallend 2,150]

Quote

Quote

The mountain of DEBT was carefully constructed under the Republicans. The reason the economy is tanking now is on account of the GOP manufactured deficits and debt

Hmm, while I agree that deficit spending and debt are bad, the economic effects are that deficit spending stimulates the economy in the short term. Rising debt crowds out private investment and manifests itself in higher interest rates, which in the long term will depress the economy. That hasn't happened. The higher interest rates are the result of problems in the mortgage industry and the Fed's fear of inflation.

Right, and we had the short term stimulus, and now we're paying the price because revenues fell far behind Bush's spending spree in the short, medium and long terms.

The largest increase in govt. spending EVER came in Bush's watch with a GOP controlled House and a GOP controlled Senate.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Quote

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I did see a over 40" lcd tv being unloaded today, was it welfare or drug money ......


It couldn't have been someone working for it and buying it.

You both assume it was "bought" at all.

Yes, let's assume all poor people steal, the presumption of guilt; kinda defines the Republican Party's take on poor people.