Lucky... 0 #51 September 12, 2008 QuoteBiden will not drop out, unless he wants to repeat the fatal mistake of Tom Eagleton in 1972, which sealed the fate of an already doomed McGovern ticket. Obama is far from doomed, he's still the likely winner. Especially since Pitbull Sarah Palin is now ready to hop into a war with Russia. Isn't the public genius when voting for pres? VP Agnew just resigned due to personal tax evasion, Nixon was under scrutiny for Watergate and people still voted him in....... aren't Americans brilliant? Don't be so sure that McSame will win even with possible successor Palin wanting to war with Russia, after all, there are still genuises thinking Russia was a threat when Reagan took office. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #52 September 12, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Do you think that if he did, the dumbass masses would realizes, "Holy shit, talk about the biggest motherfuckin' flip-flop of all time!" and think Obama's an unreliable moron and withdraw their support? If they weren't insane, they would. I dont know. But this scenario scares the hell out of me Meaning that you fear the Dems will win. Yes, that is what I meant. I think Obama has a much better chance with Hillary than Biden. That is all I meant."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #53 September 12, 2008 QuoteQuoteBiden will not drop out, unless he wants to repeat the fatal mistake of Tom Eagleton in 1972, which sealed the fate of an already doomed McGovern ticket. Obama is far from doomed, he's still the likely winner. Especially since Pitbull Sarah Palin is now ready to hop into a war with Russia. Isn't the public genius when voting for pres? VP Agnew just resigned due to personal tax evasion, Nixon was under scrutiny for Watergate and people still voted him in....... aren't Americans brilliant? Don't be so sure that McSame will win even with possible successor Palin wanting to war with Russia, after all, there are still genuises thinking Russia was a threat when Reagan took office. First, a little fun with nitpicking: VP Agnew wasn't under criminal investigation for bribery (while Gov. of Md.) until after the 1972 election. He resigned in October 1973. The Watergate break-in occurred during the 1972 campaign, but the shit didn't hit the public fan until after the '72 election, either (specifically, in March, 1973, when convicted Watergate burglar James McCord wrote a letter to his trial judge blowing the lid off the White House cover-up. That being said I agree with your remark: "Isn't the public genius when voting for pres?" I mean, look at the past 8 years, especially the 2004 election. In a democracy, people get the government they deserve. Nixon was certainly well-known as a complete prick by November '72, and his strategy for "peace with honor" in Vietnam had been exposed as a facade to ramp-up combat, especially aerial bombing, and the public's realization of that was tearing the country apart. Yet he was reelected by the largest margin in history, although largely because the McGovern nomination, and campaign, was a fucking disaster. A lot of moderate-to-conservative Democrats who voted for Humphrey in '68 voted for Nixon in '72, mainly because they couldn't bear voting for McGovern. (These in large part were the same Democrats who would go on to vote for Carter in '76, but for Reagan in '80.) Quotethere are still genuises thinking Russia was a threat when Reagan took office Frankly, the USSR still was a threat when Reagan took office in January 1981. At that time, its leader was still Leonid Brezhnev, who was pretty hostile to the West, strategically speaking. Brezhnev was succeeded by Konstantin Chernenkno, and then Yuri Andropov, also both hard-liners. The moderate and conciliatiory Mikhail Gorbachev didn't become General Secretary until 1985. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #54 September 12, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Do you think that if he did, the dumbass masses would realizes, "Holy shit, talk about the biggest motherfuckin' flip-flop of all time!" and think Obama's an unreliable moron and withdraw their support? If they weren't insane, they would. I dont know. But this scenario scares the hell out of me Meaning that you fear the Dems will win. Yes, that is what I meant. I think Obama has a much better chance with Hillary than Biden. That is all I meant. They have Hillary in their corner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #55 September 12, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Do you think that if he did, the dumbass masses would realizes, "Holy shit, talk about the biggest motherfuckin' flip-flop of all time!" and think Obama's an unreliable moron and withdraw their support? If they weren't insane, they would. I dont know. But this scenario scares the hell out of me Meaning that you fear the Dems will win. Yes, that is what I meant. I think Obama has a much better chance with Hillary than Biden. That is all I meant. They have Hillary in their corner. HHhmmmm, that would make a good topic. I have a hard time thinking the Clintons want to wait 8 years instead of 4 for her to try again. so the question remains, Is she really?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #56 September 12, 2008 >>>>>>>>>>>First, a little fun with nitpicking: Then you won't mind my counter-nitpicking. >>>>>>>>>>>>>VP Agnew wasn't under criminal investigation for bribery (while Gov. of Md.) until after the 1972 election. This ref for many quotes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiro_Agnew During his fifth year as Vice President, in the late summer of 1973, Agnew was under investigation by the U.S. Attorney’s office in Baltimore, Maryland, on charges of extortion, tax fraud, bribery, and conspiracy. In October, he was formally charged with having accepted bribes totaling more than $100,000, while holding office as Baltimore County Executive, governor of Maryland, and Vice President of the United States. On October 10, Agnew was allowed to plead no contest to a single charge that he had failed to report $29,500 of income received in 1967, with the condition that he resign the office of Vice President. Agnew is to date the only Vice President in U.S. history to resign because of criminal charges. Ten years after leaving office, in January 1983, Agnew paid the state of Maryland nearly $270,000 as a result of a civil suit that stemmed from the bribery allegations. It appears it wasn't until after the 72 election when he was probed for charges of extortion, tax fraud, bribery, and conspiracy. I recalled having read it was right before the 72 elections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.He resigned in October 1973. Yep. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The Watergate break-in occurred during the 1972 campaign, but the shit didn't hit the public fan until after the '72 election, either (specifically, in March, 1973, when convicted Watergate burglar James McCord wrote a letter to his trial judge blowing the lid off the White House cover-up. The scandals began with the arrest of five men for breaking and entering into the Democratic National Committee headquarters at the Watergate hotel complex in Washington, D.C. on June 17, 1972. Investigations conducted initially by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), and later by the Senate Watergate Committee, House Judiciary Committee and the press revealed that this burglary was one of many illegal activities authorized and carried out by Nixon's staff and loyalists. They also revealed the immense scope of crimes and abuses, which included campaign fraud, political espionage and sabotage, illegal break-ins, improper tax audits, illegal wiretapping on a massive scale, and a secret slush fund laundered in Mexico to pay those who conducted these operations.[1] This secret fund was also used as hush money to buy silence of the seven men who were indicted for the June 17 break-in.[2][3] Well, I disagree with you here, it appears obvious that there was quite a bit here, the voting public should have known something. This exemplifies my point; the voting public is stupid. June to November is quite a while to rethink about voting for a liar, cheat, thief, Republican. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>That being said I agree with your remark: "Isn't the public genius when voting for pres?" I mean, look at the past 8 years, especially the 2004 election. In a democracy, people get the government they deserve. With the exception of the 2000 election, which was crooked. But I agree, it shouldn't have been that close. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Nixon was certainly well-known as a complete prick by November '72, and his strategy for "peace with honor" in Vietnam had been exposed as a facade to ramp-up combat, especially aerial bombing, and the public's realization of that was tearing the country apart. Yet he was reelected by the largest margin in history, although largely because the McGovern nomination, and campaign, was a fucking disaster. A lot of moderate-to-conservative Democrats who voted for Humphrey in '68 voted for Nixon in '72, mainly because they couldn't bear voting for McGovern. (These in large part were the same Democrats who would go on to vote for Carter in '76, but for Reagan in '80.) I agree. Some of that was probably overspill from the civil rights acts signed by LBJ and the anger from the Yellow Dog Dems? Yes/no? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Frankly, the USSR still was a threat when Reagan took office in January 1981. At that time, its leader was still Leonid Brezhnev, who was pretty hostile to the West, strategically speaking. Brezhnev was succeeded by Konstantin Chernenkno, and then Yuri Andropov, also both hard-liners. The moderate and conciliatiory Mikhail Gorbachev didn't become General Secretary until 1985. I dunno, I think they were more bark than bite at that time. Their fiscla infrastructure was already broken, just waiting to break and we should have known that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #57 September 12, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Do you think that if he did, the dumbass masses would realizes, "Holy shit, talk about the biggest motherfuckin' flip-flop of all time!" and think Obama's an unreliable moron and withdraw their support? If they weren't insane, they would. I dont know. But this scenario scares the hell out of me Meaning that you fear the Dems will win. Yes, that is what I meant. I think Obama has a much better chance with Hillary than Biden. That is all I meant. They have Hillary in their corner. HHhmmmm, that would make a good topic. I have a hard time thinking the Clintons want to wait 8 years instead of 4 for her to try again. so the question remains, Is she really? Does it really matter in teh 08 election? Obama/Biden want to retain any Clinton females that may have strayed by Palin's presence, so Biden ate a little crow to be humble - real simple. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #58 September 12, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Do you think that if he did, the dumbass masses would realizes, "Holy shit, talk about the biggest motherfuckin' flip-flop of all time!" and think Obama's an unreliable moron and withdraw their support? If they weren't insane, they would. I dont know. But this scenario scares the hell out of me Meaning that you fear the Dems will win. Yes, that is what I meant. I think Obama has a much better chance with Hillary than Biden. That is all I meant. They have Hillary in their corner. HHhmmmm, that would make a good topic. I have a hard time thinking the Clintons want to wait 8 years instead of 4 for her to try again. so the question remains, Is she really? Does it really matter in teh 08 election? Obama/Biden want to retain any Clinton females that may have strayed by Palin's presence, so Biden ate a little crow to be humble - real simple. I am looking at it from an angle of how long does Hillary want to wait to be President. As for Biden's comment? Ya, that makes sense..."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #59 September 12, 2008 Quote Quote I don't think so. It would be political suicide for Obama to switch-up now. It would only look like... 'Hmmmm... McCain has a woman running mate. I think, I'll try that!' Obama is smarter than that. Obama, needs to get down to the nut-cuttin' and let the voters get the meat and potatoes of what he plans to do if, he gets the presidency. That's exactly why he's slipping in the poles now (no pun intended). There's nothing to his campaign other than talk, which is what republicans have been saying from the beginning. I agree with everything else that's been said. Political suicide to change now. Then again, "Change Change Change" has gotten him this far. Doesn't sound any different than what the republicans are dishing-out. That's what gets me. All the candidates fall into the 'mud-slinging' trap. Candidates regress to that of school kids.Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #60 September 12, 2008 Quote Quote I don't think so. It would be political suicide for Obama to switch-up now. It would only look like... 'Hmmmm... McCain has a woman running mate. I think, I'll try that!' Obama is smarter than that. Obama, needs to get down to the nut-cuttin' and let the voters get the meat and potatoes of what he plans to do if, he gets the presidency. Let McCain keep slinging mud. Obama knows he can't afford to lower himself to mud-slinging. Besides, I don't think, Hillary would take the V.P. as a 'second fiddle' choice. Chuck Right, it's just strategy to keep Hillary supporters on the left and not to Palin. Hey, Lucky! These guys just boggle the mind!Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
